Working class children need to try to be more middle class to get on!

[rollonthesummer]

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10671048/Working-class-children-must-learn-to-be-middle-class-to-get-on-in-life-government-advisor-says.html

EMA was a good way to encourage poorer kids to stay on at school.

That was one of the first thing the Tories scrapped.

Most school leavers I know do go on to further education.

Most of the students from my DSs school either stayed on at 6th form or went to college.

Morris - I went to University from a very poor background. Places like Glasgow your accent wasn't such an issue, but it was still middle class kids going to it.

At Oxford I was told by a public school boy in front of about 20 people that I was the only person he knew who didn't sound clever enough to go to Oxford.

See it's people like him that are the cause of the problem.

Until snotty attitudes towards regional accents change there is no hope really.

Unless you go to a University where RP is NOT the norm

usual - The issue isn't regional accents. You get posh regional accents. The issue is people looking down on poor people. And it happens all of the time.

anyway its not just about accents is it?
its about being able to afford trips to the cinema and theatre and out of your local town

You would be shocked to know how many people WITH money around here find the prospect of going to London scary. Its only an hour or so away.
Many kids never ever leave the county they live in at best.

If you have no car and little money you wouldnt.

Regional accents are fine. There are plenty of them about in Oxbridge these days, including some of us who work there .

What's not so fine is the inability to form sentences, drop slang and make oneself understood...

Many kids grow up not really knowing how to do this because they don't have to in their daily lives.

This will hold them back. End of story.

Its also being aware of free things locally, many people of all classes dont take up free exhibitions, workshops etc in the local town.

agree - that fake Jamaican thing white kids do

desist

Yes I know, Gennie.

Until people stop looking down on poor people there will be no change.

Pretending to have a posh accent won't change anything.

My DW is working class and someone at her school told her she wasnt 'right sort of person' for Oxford so she did it all on her own anyway.

Luckily our tutor was a very open minded man and could see past her broad Geordie accent, wild hair, odd clothes and her 'not very good Comprehensive' and gave her a place.

I do think though having worked in and around the City and big business there is more than a modicum of truth in the article. Knowing how to behave in certain circumstances, how to eat properly, how to make conversation, how to use language properly all matter a lot in the higher levels of the professions and business life.

Broadening horizons and giving children sight of the possibilities and the basic tools of social interaction to make the most of their talent is surely worth doing.

My children go to private school and it gives me the rage that even there things like eating properly, behaving politely at table, eating together are not a part of the normal school day or even regarded as important.

My worst nightmare is if any of mine turned out like to be like Gove and Co.

Too many likes in that post

It's not just slang that is looked down at though, it's accents too. DD's friend at uni got told 'the way you speak makes you sound so thick it's hard to concentrate on what you're saying.' She speaks properly.

I don't understand why the odd ignorant comment from people about accent or background - and I am sure these comments are not that common - should have such power over anyone with any sense. Would you not answer back quite robustly? Did no one else present look askance at the idiot making the remark?

Sorry to spoil the Gove hatefest, but it wasn't actually him who made these remarks - it was someone called Peter Brant, head of policy at the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission (something I didn't even know we had).

I think he does have a point about "soft" skills - as I've climbed the professional ladder, I've had to attend things like dinners out, make conversation with people that I wouldn't normally, make presentations and speak in public etc. Even things like travelling regularly to strange places either in the UK or in Europe are much easier if you have had some exposure to them growing up. Having some idea of how to dress, behave, navigate a menu etc is genuinely useful. DH is a management consultant and he uses these "soft" skills a lot - it's vital that he can quickly build good professional relationships with clients at all levels of the organisations he works with, and he has to eat out (often with clients) probably three or four times a week when he is away.

LordPalmerston I don't think its always fake. In Inner London for example- there is a genuine change in accent and dialect which has been studied by linguists. Its a natural development due to multicultural influences. The kids may not be faking anything.

WC people do eat out though and know how to navigate a menu.

We don't all sit at home watching soaps and eating tripe.

Scuttlebutter, I agree but these things may be learned. It's a little harder and takes a while but one doesn't leap straight from home to ordering fine food for international clients at a gourmet restaurant. There is a lot of learning in all areas that comes in between surely? It isn't insurmountable .

My dm always taught us to speak well. She had a voice for work and a voice for home. I went to a rough comprehensive and picked up slang in order to fit in with my peers. It was never 'me' though. On leaving school I dropped the slang. A lot of people commented on how well I spoke as if I did not have 'the look' to accompany it.

I think the way in which you present yourself matters a lot, if you want to be taken seriously.

A poster a few pages back, said they did not grow up knowing any lawyers/doctors/business men. Neither did I. I did not think average girls from single parent homes, living on council estates were 'allowed' to aspire to those jobs. I recall even thinking teaching was out of my reach! Now I earn more than I would if I taught, however still feel sad that I did not have 'big' dreams or the encouragement to pursue them.

Usual - you seem determined to take offence rather than respond to posts like Scuttles

Usual - you seem determined to take offence rather than respond to posts like Scuttles

Oops. Sorry.