Working class children need to try to be more middle class to get on!

[rollonthesummer]

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10671048/Working-class-children-must-learn-to-be-middle-class-to-get-on-in-life-government-advisor-says.html

[NitramAtTheKrap]

I knew no doctors, accountants, business people. I didn't even know lawyers existed or what they did. How can you aspire to be something which you don't know exists?

[NitramAtTheKrap]

Oh I agree it shouldn't, but it does.

I don't see how it can change.

[Hullygully]

They can see it on their giant plasma tellies now tho, all them lawyer progs. That's if they can see through the fug of fag smoke.

[Hullygully]

We could make a teeny weeny start by getting rid of private schools/academies/free schools and having the same schools with the same curriculum, academic and social and extra-curricular opportunities for all. That would make a HUGE difference.

[donttrythisathome]

Merry, how do you think an individual in a workplace, say a lawyers office! could change it? Genuinely interested in your view by the way! I have railed against it, been myself, did good work, stood up for myself etc, but saw all the subtle, reserved, play the gamers get promoted above me.

[KarenBrockman]

[itsthawooluff]

It is vile that people are judged on their manners and the way they talk, rather than what they can do, but, it is a fact that they are - whether consciously or unconsciously.

We can talk about how unfair and class ridden UK society is, and that it shouldn't be, but are we actually doing kids any favours by pretending that it isn't and giving out the Disneyish 'be true to yourself and people will love you' line? I'm not saying that we should teach anyone to be ashamed of their background, but being a social chameleon is a useful skill. The way I talk to my clients in the office and the way I talk to my family and extended family are poles apart.

[donttrythisathome]

I think the most important thing is being self-possessed and having self-confidence. It is harder for poorer people to have this because they occupy an inferior place in society through no fault of their own, and this is internalised.

I have no idea how you can teach this to people while maintaining the status quo that they are lower down in society! But it would be the best start for sure.

[MerryMarigold]

I think one way, when you are in a position of employing others, is to employ people like you, then promote etc. You can vote for political parties that try and address this (albeit in a limited way), or have some of their leaders from working class backgrounds.

I like your teeny weeny start, Hully. Tbh, I think academies are neither here nor there. But private schools make a very big contribution.

Boy from round my way got into Eton the other day. I hope he doesn't forget his roots and does his best for other disadvantaged kids instead of becoming just like all the other old Etonians.

[Grennie]

The language you use, is very different from your accent though. Should those from a working class background like mine really have to have elocution lessons to get promotions?

[columngollum]

donttrythis, you'd have to start your own company. Every group of people has a dynamic. It's inevitable. In a company there will be a dynamic and the people who follow it will get on better. Another method is to keep company-hopping at an ever increasingly senior level. But, basically, if you want to get along in a group you have to play the group game (whatever it happens to be.)

But not everybody needs to work in a group. Of course we all need to live in one, (however isolated we might feel.)

[MerryMarigold]

But mrsdevere, it's a given that these high achieving kids are hard working and intelligent. Gove wants to give them elocution lessons, museum trips and lessons on how to eat in a posh restaurant so they can fit in with their MC peers.

[MerryMarigold]

And the amount of not-very-intelligent or hard working MC kids that get well paid jobs is phenomenal.

[donttrythisathome]

Merry and column, of course if I had my own company, the game would be different! But I am talking about how you can change things from within the system. To get to the position in e.g. A lawyers firm where you are making decisions about who to employ, means that you have played the game quite successfully in all likelihood. Likewise with career hopping a a senior level...have to get to that senior level first!

Mrsdevere, it is so insulting the assumptions that are made about WC isn't it? And that everyone is lumped together. Likewise with the other classes I guess, but thing is they make the decisions about things that affect the WC. Shows a deep ignorance.

[columngollum]

And lots of well educated people dig up dubious bits of old bones in the local field or study the history of their parish simply because they want to. Knowing a lot about the Anglo-Saxons doesn't mean that you're going to earn a lot of money. You can also figure out how to eat in a posh restaurant if knowing about it is that important to you.

[Ubik1]

We can talk about how unfair and class ridden UK society is, and that it shouldn't be, but are we actually doing kids any favours by pretending that it isn't and giving out the Disneyish 'be true to yourself and people will love you' line?

I absolutely agree with this. It's not right, of course it isn't. If you've ever experienced imposter syndrome in the workplace you will know that at some point you have to fit in to get on. It's part of growing up.

[columngollum]

If you're a risk-taker you can progress up the career path a lot faster (even from relatively near the bottom) by company hopping than by hoping for a promotion (the waiting for someone to die approach.) Of course company hoppers do suffer reverses. But they pretty much ignore them.

[donttrythisathome]

Thing is, and I am repeating myself.

Not everyone wants to play the game, I certainly don't.

But I sure as f* wish I had known from the outset that it was a frigging game and what the rules were so I could make an informed decision!!!!

[columngollum]

imposter syndrome in the workplace

what is this?

[donttrythisathome]

Colum, these are all soft skills, playing the game etc. honestly, it seems obvious when you know, but is as clear as mud when you don't.

[donttrythisathome]

Imposter syndrome is when you feel that you are not able enough for the job, and it's only a matter of time before you are found out. Very common!

Right, I need to go do stuff now. Loving this thread though. Lots of interesting views and no one being rude hooray!

[donttrythisathome]

Maybe I'm being rude though..
See...lack of the soft skills ha ha.

[columngollum]

donttrythis

Completely agree. But the corporate world is a very artificial place. It wouldn't be useful to educate most children about the minutiae of life aboard a trawler, only the ones who are likely to go onto one.

[TheBigBumTheory]

I think we should all learn to be more upper class.

That would level the croquet lawn of opportunity.