sexual segregation in UK universities

[carlajean]

I don't know if i've missed any threads on this, but i'm horrified to have just learnt that some UK universities are going to allow sexual segregation in some lectures. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown commented on it in today's Independent, and Polly Toynbee wrote about it in the Guardian.
Why hasn 't the NUS objected?
I'd be interested to hear what other mnetters think about this. As i've said, I object strongly to this, but would be interested to hear what others think.

[SilverApples]

No, I don't wonder, Gosh. He's good television, the Bogeyman incarnate with all the terror and thrill that goes along with it. Just the thing to get the millions of tabloid and conservative press readers running around and building the barricades.
Muslim patrols harassing citizens? Let's tool up the Neighbourhood Watch and sit back for the show. Whilst it is recorded for posterity and the paranoia increases.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

I will quote what someone (Muslim) said about Anjem Choudary a while ago.

"What he needs is a good kicking. But that won't happen to him, it will be some uncle on the way back from the mosque, or an auntie doing her shopping who will get attacked instead and it will happen because people think we're all like Anjem Choudary".

[grimbletart]

Flatpack: on a point of fact people in their seventies are not baby boomers. Baby boomers refers to the generation born after World War II - not before or during it.

I'm touchy about this because baby boomers get pilloried for all sorts of things and as someone of 70 I most definitely am not a baby boomer.

Ok, as you were folks……..

As for your point about an Islamic party being part of a coalition, any party that found itself in that situation would be mad if it did not attempt to form a minority government instead, and if defeated, call another election.

[SilverApples]

I agree, it is what will happen. I think that was the point I was trying to make on the other thread, that the tension and intolerance rises, and the easy targets get hit. Then there is retaliation, and counter-retaliation.
The EDL are gathering support from a wider number of people than just the loony right now, unlike a few years ago.

[alemci]

goshanne I can see your point about Anjem. don't know about a kicking as I hate violence; do some people call the police when he starts harassing them say outside their restaurant or are the police ineffective. are the marchers not trying to stir up trouble. why is it allowed?

[ErrolTheDragon]

alemci, see my link about the 'muslim patrol' - people who step beyond the law are subject to it. I'm not sure whether the recent anti-alcohol demonstration went beyond it or not - we do allow free speech - though the part about facing 40 lashes sounds like incitement to violence and intimidation. I'd be pretty sure that if anyone actually carried out this threat they'd be tried and imprisoned for GBH or suchlike.

[SilverApples]

'I'd be pretty sure that if anyone actually carried out this threat they'd be tried and imprisoned for GBH or suchlike.'

Yes, if they had evidence and witnesses. Which often tend to be hard to obtain in cases of intimidation in a close-knit community.

[alemci]

Ercol that is what I am commenting on.

it makes all Moslems look bad in some peoples eyes and the thought that if Choudary can get away with his bullying behaviour then how long before they turn up at the Toby Inn up the road, I am being a bit flippant

also it is bad for the restaurant owners. he should be made to stop.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Gosh Choudary is on TV because that's how TV works. They are hardly going to say "and here is a muslim man waiting for a bus on his way to work".

Though I suppose his actions are somehow the fault of all non-muslims or the patriarchy or something.

[SilverApples]

faith-matters.org/component/content/article/44-news/303-speech-given-by-the-rt-hon-baroness-warsi-to-tell-mama-measuring-anti-muslim-attacks-originally-given-at-tell-mama-fundraising-dinner-london-this-is-the-text-of-the-speech-as-drafted-which-may-differ-slightly-from-the-delivered-version

'Research by the excellent Dr Matthew Goodwin and Dr Chris Allen lifts the lid on this, showing attitudes towards Britain’s Muslims.
Look at their recent polling - indicative data from a recent online YouGov survey.
Just 23% of people said that Islam was NOT a threat to Western civilisation.

And only a mere 24% thought Muslims were compatible with the British way of life - with nearly half of people disagreeing that Muslims were compatible.

Perhaps most disturbingly, nearly half of people polled thought there would be a clash of civilisations between and Muslims and other Britons.'

This level of paranoia is what I am concerned about, and it's a fear that people like Choudary feed.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Of course there's fear. What people see is the loud Muslims just as they see the loud Christians.

There have been polls showing that huge numbers of Muslims - ordinary people, not terrorists or activists - would like to see Sharia law replace UK law. I haven't asked each Muslim myself, but I'm hoping the polls are biased.

Sharia law IS a potential threat to Western civilisation.

[SilverApples]

So the attacks on the vulnerable will continue, and the country will become more impervious to the pressure of refugees from Muslim-majority countries, and more indifferent to Muslim on Muslim conflicts.
And many of the resident Muslim population will become more defensive and reluctant to engage with non-Muslim citizens.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Perhaps, or perhaps the polls are wrong and most Muslims really just want to get on with life without changing the basic structure of the country. I'd certainly like to think so and it's quite possible. We know that polls can be skewed by asking the questions the right way.

I think it helps to deal decisively with real troublemakers like Choudary as we did with the so called 'Muslim Patrol'. They were simply ordinary criminals and were arrested, charged and convicted as such. What would have caused problems would be if we'd said "We better let them be because they are Muslim and that will cause tension". That kind of talk makes people nervous and rightly so.

Which is why I'm sick of hearing about Islamophobia. Anyone who really hates Muslims should go around saying that disagreeing with muslims is evil and should be stopped. That will do it.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Back - I don't understand, first you say Choudary is on tv, because that's how tv works but then say that all people see are the loud Muslims.

My point is that giving an unrepresentative, minority figure like Choudary airtime or publicity. serves no positive purpose whatsoever - that's why all people are seeing are the loud Muslims.

Let the police continue to monitor him and by all means, if he breaks the law, then I hope they through the book at him.

There are far more positive and representative Muslims out there and it's time people got to see them instead.

[Pixel]

Going back to the original subject, what would happen I wonder, if a lot of women turned up early to one of these meetings and took the seats at the front?

[claig]

Gosh, is right. Choudhary is given publicity in the same way that the EDL was given publicity. Neither are representative but the media gives them both lots of publicity and media access. Why?

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Gosh and Claig I am not in control of the media. Even though I'm white I never got my invitation to join the secret world government. You have as much control over what they show as I do.

I simply note that they do report things that are out of the ordinary. (sometimes this is called 'news').

Also people who live in brick lane and other places will have seen Choudhary with their own eyes and people in Tower Hamlets will have seen the 'muslim patrol' with their own eyes.

[claig]

Back, they decide what to show on the media and who to give publicity to. They won't show you many climate change sceptics on TV, but they will show you lots of polar bears. But Anjem Choudhary goes on Newsnight and on Channel 4 News to spread his poison and they put the EDL and Tommy Robinson on debate chat shows etc. Think about it.

[claig]

And if you think they do it because they like controversy and discussion, ask your self why they don't put the BNP on and do put the EDL on.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

More people will watch polar bears.

[claig]

I agree with Gosh. They should not put Choudhary on Newsnight or on our TV stations and they should not give him any publicity or media access as all he does is spread poison and because he is totally unprepresentative.

[claig]

'More people will watch polar bears.'

They put polar bears on to manipulate people's minds and convince them about what they want them to think is real. They choose what to show you and what to inform you about and what they promote increases credibility and suggests that it is more representative than it really is. Choudhary is not representative and yet he is the go-to man they often show on TV.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Who is they?

Do you see all the media, the government as one big gang arrayed against you?

I wouldn't be happy with censorship and do you think it would help the Muslim cause if we read in other countries newspapers online that Choudhary was doing what he does, but that our government had forbidden reporting on it because some other Muslims thought it was giving them a bad name?

[claig]

It's nothing to do with the government.

Baroness Warsi of the Conservatives also asks why Chodhary, who is totally unrepresentative, gets access to Channel4 and the BBC.

"The faith and communities minister, Baroness Warsi, and the shadow defence secretary, Jim Murphy, have criticised the media for giving too much airtime to the radical cleric Anjem Choudary in the wake of the Woolwich attack.


Warsi, who is also a Foreign Office minister, said she felt "angry" about the airtime given to "one appalling man who represents nobody".


She told Sky News on Thursday: "We all have a responsibility, including the media, not to give airtime to extremist voices – idiots and nutters who speak for no one but themselves."


www.theguardian.com/media/2013/may/24/bbc-channel-4-anjem-choudary

I don't think that other countries even know who Choudhary even is, he is so unrepresentative.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

I know she says things like that. I consider her part of the problem rather than the solution.

Perhaps she'd prefer to close down the media and just have a government dept issuing carefully vetted statements. People can hear her saying that we should keep quiet about stuff that might make muslims look bad and that makes it worse.

Perhaps they shouldn't have reported the woolwich incident either? That probably didn't help.