some new research into mmr and autism reported

[zippitippitoes]

..\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/28/wmmr28.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/28/ixnews.html\ article here}

[FairyMum]

Yes, I do know about anthrosophical view of vaccinations and I think its idiotic. My point was that surely if you choose not to vaccinate, then surely you have to accept that your child will get mealses, whooping cough or whatever harmless little illness they might catch when they are out and about? Parents in my childrens nursery who haven't vaccinated also seemed shocked when a couple of children went down with measles. Oh dear.....

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

Of course I recognise that ds2 and ds3 may get measles. I think that most people who choose not to vaccinate realise that, they are for whatever reaosn more scared about the vaccines. Everyone I know well who has chosen not to vaccinate has taken that choice because they have a damaged elder child. DS2 was exposed to whooping cough at 4 months, luckily he didn't get it. I've chosen to run the risk of that rather than the jab for the moment. I know my children are high risk for autism, I also know how bloody awful it is. It's not a decision that I dreamed up overnight.

SP - I do think we probably agree on this, perhaps just have different things that are important to us iyswim. do you really think that people know more about autism though? I don't think people have the faintest idea what it is like. I don't think they understand for one tiny moment. I don't think they even get the concept to be honest. In fact I know they don't because people still insit on saying to me "why don't we meet at the park with the kids?, or "we could go and get a pub lunch" or even "lets go to the zoo - the kid's will love it". And just like one mother in the film I have often said to myself "yes right I would love to go to the zoo/park/pub with my 3 kids, in another lifetime". I can't even get from the car to the front door when I have all 3 of them alone. That's why I've been so obsessed with showing people the film, because I think it does begin to capture what life is like every day.

If you meant about the biological factors involved in autism, there's very little known. The research is starting to come together, but I think at this stage there are many, many unaswered questions, and probably none answered. It appears the immune system is buggered (interestingly quite a high number of autistic children appear not to develop rubella antibodies for example after MMR- just to add insult to injury), that sulphation systems are often out, that metal detoxification systems are knackered, that antibodies to myelin may be produced, that membranes are leaky but how it all ties together is not known, to make it even more complicated there appear to be different subgroups with different problems. We have a pretty good idea about what may have triggered ds1, but very little about other things that could potentially affect ds2 and ds3. Now at 4 DS2 appears to have escaped.

[essbee]

I do have a bit of an interest in the MMR/autism possible link myself too. My ds had a bad reaction after his mmr booster that put him in hospital with inflammation of the meninge region of the brain, he's very likely to get a dx of high functioning autism sortly. I wasn't aware of anything distinctive before his MMR booster and he started having MAJOR tantrums within weeks of the reaction. The reaction btw wasn't recorded as such, apparently it was a coincidence that it was 9 days after the jab, yeah right!! Consequently my dd (she was about 10m at the time) hasn't had hers at all.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

essbee- is your computer workig well again? If so send your mother the link to the autism film!

essbee do you know whether your son's inflammation was recorded as an adverse reaction?

[brimfull]

That film is a real eye opener jimjams.Thanks for the link.I'm exhausted just watching the film!

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

oh durr, just read your message properly, sorry!
Coincidence, yeah right. They're meant to record it anyway- it's not up to them to decide whether its a reaction or not, it's any potential reaction that should be notified.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

It's very good ggirl, think it protrays life as I know it better than anything else I've seen. Apart from the driving off the bridge bit, I think I have used every single phrase those mother's use as well at some stage or another.

[essbee]

Nope, meant to say, just got another one from a friend of a neighbour , literally just!! My old one has def died..... I must admit I did mean to try and push to get it recorded, would it be too late?? I got side tracked at the time as, ironically, my dd caught measles soon after..

[essbee]

Just going to look at that film now, it's not going to start me blubbing again is it? I've only just stopped resembling Alice Cooper.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

There is a website where you can record adverse drug reactions yourself. I'd just put one in. I'll have a look tomorrow and get the link- I must go to bed now!!!

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

It makes me blub a bit!

[essbee]

Thank you! I'm going to watch it anyway (it's just loading. night xxx

[essbee]

Wow , these children were obvs more on the more severe autistic spectrum scale but, my goodness, did a lot ring true.

[zippitippitoes]

I have a similar interest to essbee in this as my ds had an adverse reaction to mmr, in fact it was the one which was subsequently withdrawn about 4 years later..whether that has a bearing I don't know.

But he had the vaccine and was admitted to hospital 10 days later with a meningitis type illness. I was adamant it was obviously due to the mmr but I was told it was a coincidence. But this was in 1989 (May).

Essbee do you remember when I got the pushchair we had a chat about similarities between your ds and mine, don't remember us mentioning this point.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

Quite possibly zippi, the one that was withdrawn was withdrawn because the mumps component was supposedly causing aseptic meningitis. Was it recorded as a potential adverse reaction?

[zippitippitoes]

I doubt it as there was a total reluctance to accept my argument that it was related and I think I'm right in thinking that he was in the first wave of mmr vaccinations? He also had had mumps already and had chickenpox about 6 weeks before. He was ill for months after this, we went on holiday and he wouldn't go on the beach or on the grass at the campsite or in the pool.

Interesting what you mention about the immune system as he had ME between 7 and 10 years.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

ds1's regression coincided with a refusal to walk/sit on grass or sand. I would think that was the first wave of MMRs.

[edam]

The fact that Wakefield did find vaccine strain measles virus in the guts of autistic children is the reason I didn't MMR. Went for singles, although appreciate it's a bit of a stab in the dark ie not a proven alternative. Merely assauged my conscience in terms of my potentially unvaccinated child giving rubella to a pregnant woman, or measles/mumps to children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. One of my best friends at school had a hole in the heart and was deaf in one ear due to rubella.

But when the authorities say single vax aren't proven, it always makes me wonder what vax we had as children - I remember having rubella but don't know if there was single mumps in the 70s. Even at the age of 11 I remember wondering why they were only giving rubella to the girls, because clearly they were leaving a pool of potential infection in the population.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

edam - as kids we had rubella for girls, and you could have single measles, although it wasn't standard for a ling time (if ever).

I do think they should give girls a booster or something, giving rubella vaccination to baby girls isn't necessarily going to protect them in their childbearing years.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

\link{http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=287\parents etc can report adverse drug reactions here}

[zippitippitoes]

measles vaccination was introduced in the sixties I think 67 or 68? the day I was supposed to have it my younger brother got measles and so I wasn't vaccinated. I don't think mumps was vaccinated against until mmr. And rubella was a single vaccine for girls pre puberty.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

It doesn't actually list vaccinations, but its the only place I've found to make any sort of notification if you are a member of the public. Unfortunately it seems that the medical profession are under-recording potential adverse vaccine reactions.

[zippitippitoes]

Well ds was a very difficult baby before mmr but it certainly exacerbated his difficulties, of course there was no real help or advice then.

[foundintranslation]

I remember having mumps (the illness) and my parents not seeming at all surprised, so don't think mumps was vaccinated against when I was a child. (Was born in 1977). Had rubella vaccine at age 10.

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

There isn't now zippi! DS1 was diagnosed, we were given an NAS leaflet and sent on our way. I haven't seen his paediatrician since- that was 4 years ago.
Mumps was never vaccinated against singly in the UK.