10 most evil Tory deeds of 2012 explained in 130 words.

[ttosca]

• Homelessness is up 31% under the Tories (evidence).
  
  
  
• Gas Prices are up 31% under the Tories & 40% of families are on the brink of fuel poverty (evidence, evidence).
  
  
  
• 400 Sure Start Centres have been shut under the Tories (evidence).
  
  
• 11,000 Hospital Beds have been axed & 7,000+ Nurses sacked under the Tories (evidence).
  
  
  
• 95 Academy & Free School bosses now earn more than MPs & up to £300,000 a year (evidence, evidence).
  
  
  
• 250,000 Disabled People have been forced onto Unpaid Workfare with a 2% success rate (evidence).
  
  
  
• £7 billion worth of NHS Services have been privatised under the Tories (evidence, evidence, evidence).
  
  
  
• The Tories announced a total of 25% cuts Tax on Profit & scrapped the 50p Rate (evidence).
  
  
  
• Cameron has spent the year bullying, mocking & insulting women, disabled & the elderly (evidence).
  
  
  www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/12/10-most-evil-tory-deeds-of-2012.html

[claig]

Abra1d, I wouldn't take those warnings too seriously.

He says

'A dangerous experiment gone wrong
On the 1st of January, 1909, something happened for the first time in British history.

The government agreed to redistribute taxes to support people in their old age.'


He mentions something like we now have 500,000 civil servants whereas when we had an Empire we only had about 4000.

But all this stuff is like comparing apples and oranges. He considers all the costs of a large state and none of the benefits. We now have a better educated population who live longer and work and conbtribute longer and pay taxes for longer. We have a more sophisticated country which has increased productivity over the past 200 years.

Yes, we are in a bad financial situation, yes politicians blow lots of our money on windfarms, green projects and overseas aid while cutting essential services for our people, but that doesn't mean we should cut our welfare system even further. We should cut out the waste, the fees to fat cats, the bonuses to bankers, and the subsidies to rich land-owning aristocrats to erect windfarms on their large tracts of land. There are lots of savings that can be made without cutting the NHS and welfare to our people.

It is true that we may all be pawns in the powerbrokers financial games, but that doesn't mean we have to believe all their dire warnings and heed their advice to cut, cut and cut again.

The Euro will survive and grow stronger. It is politics that have led indebted countries to pool their sovereignty in order to be rescued, and that is exactly how the powerbrokers like it.

They will show us their "fiscal cliffs" and dangle us over the edge while uttering dire warnings, but they are playing a game to corral us to follow their wishes. They will not bring down their whole house of cards, they will only threaten to until we do as they wish.

[claig]

He calls his article 'The End of Britain'

We have learnt that we had 'light touch regulation' under New Labour and that some regulators appear to have been asleep on their watch. We know that some bankers filled their pockets with public bailouts. There will always be inept politicians, financial sharks and alas, New Labour, but all the people at the top aren't as stupid as it might seem. There will be no 'end of Britain'.

Do you think they would be spending billions of our money on foreign aid, on windfarm subsidies, on green hot air, on holding Olympic ceremonies and Jubilees, if they really thought the 'end of Britain' was around the corner?

Yes, some of the New Labour team were not the brightest, but we can have faith that there are people at the top who have a bit more savvy than that shower.

It's not all doom and gloom. We will get out of it and eventually return to a boom.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

As somenone of no political affiliation, I find it interesting that the tories are getting it in the neck for
Academies and free schools, both started by labour
Fuel prices, they are set by the fuel companies.

I would also call into question the political bias of the website.

[claig]

Boney, I don't think it is fair to question the political bias of the website. It is a free and open forum. I am not a fan of New Labour, whereas the majority seem to be. That is fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however tragically misguided.

Every governemnt gets it in the neck for what happens on their watch. New Labour was criticised for the fuel escalator etc. and for academies and for many other things too numerous to mention.

[claig]

Sorry, Boney. I misunderstood. I see that you were talking about the greenbenchesuk website.

[Xenia]

claig, yes I do believe they would spend all that whilst Rome burns as people don't like to admit they are about to go bust. I just read a book by Lewis on the crash. He went to Iceland, Greece, Ireland, Germany and the US. No one was prepared to admit in Ireland they were building homes no one would ever buy. It is very very common for states in trouble to bury their head in the sand and ignore impending disaster. We have massive debt as a nation. I read the article. None of us can know if there will be such a break down but it is certainly worth reading.

If you end up like in the 70s as described in the article and as I remember or like Greece today with riots then you are certainly not making the poor coralled into compliance - you are stoking up civil unrest. It is rarely in the interests of the rich to arrange that. There is not a heap of spare cash wasted on defence or whatever we can just reach into to solve the problem of hardly being able to meet our interest payments or the massively increased debts we have. If we had a woman in charge again like Thatcher we woudl be more likely to get back to balancing the books - she repaid debt. When Labour had more money it spent spent spent. Anyone of us running a home knows that yo live within your means and when times are good you repay debt first, not spend it on things you don't need. We need more basic prudence. Virtually nothing has really been done to cut costs and even start to pay back debt. Instead we have taken on huge new debts just to keep going.

It reminds me not just of being a very small girl in the 70s but also of my grandfather;s letters after 1929 and the crash then. His brothers had to move abroad to the US/Canada and he nearly did too with his family as times were so very hard in the UK. I think my father was one of the few chidlren at school with shoes. The uncles abroad got casual work 2 or 3 days a week and slept rough. None of them married. I expect they died young. (The US was as hard hit as the UK).

So if we want to stimulate the economy we need to make the UK the place to do business, we need to make us a low tax haven with say a 20% flat tax and 20% CGT and combined income tax and NI. We need to strip back the frontiers of the state hugely, consider the unthinkable in terms of what the state provides, deregulate hugely, abolish the minimum wage, transfer responsibility for those in need from the state to families, relax immigration rules for those with money and who can work or are rich Chinese tourists, reduce much further the burdens on business,

[claig]

Xenia, the super rich elite who control the puppets want to cut back teh rights of workers and ordinary people. They want them to work longer and take smaller pensions and pay more tax for greener energy and to slow their consumption, growth and prosperity. People profited from selling pipe dreams while teh going ws good but there were people in the know who knew when the music would stop and who knew what would then happen.

Debt has been ramped up to such high levels that some countries such as Greece will possibly never be able to repay them. It wasn't the people who did it, it was the puppets who worked for their masters and who aided their masters' plan. When a country is in debt to such a degree then the puppets do exactly as they are told and the people endure whatever the puppet masters decree.

Your father and unclers and family suffered in the Great Depression just like millions of other ordinary people. But these crises of capitalism do not touch the real elite, they are game changers that allow them to change society and take even more control of ordinary people's lives.


'We need to strip back the frontiers of the state hugely, consider the unthinkable in terms of what the state provides, deregulate hugely, abolish the minimum wage, transfer responsibility for those in need from the state to families, relax immigration rules for those with money and who can work or are rich Chinese tourists, reduce much further the burdens on business'

This is the lie of the super-rich elite who want to prevent the progress of humanity.

What we need to do is encourage business and growth and education and stop putting obstacles and financial disincentives in their path. We need to stop burdening our industries with the elite's green taxes and regulations which help to stifle the growth that the people so desperately want. We need to cut the waste and the excess of our tax money being used to subsidise rich landowners to erect inefficient windfarms. We need to cut BBC payouts and salaries, cut subsidies to operas that teh well-heeled elite frequent, paid for out of the taxes of cleeaners who start work when these opera goers are still fast asleep. We need to cut our foreign aid budgets and our payments to countries to help with comatting climate change. We need to concentrate on essentials and cut the crap, we need to stop making ordinary people take the rap, we need to free the people from the rich elite's propaganda and prise open their tight mousetrap.

[claig]

We need to change our laws so that corporations turning over billions and paying just a few millions (if that) in tax, never again have to volunteer to offer up some tax.

[claig]

We may well one day be forced to join the Euro and I wouldn't be surprised if an economic disaster for this country is what will force this to happen, so that a powerful rich elite has its way. We can't see the future. But rest assured that these things are not just accidents, they follow a well-thought out plan.

The elite are consolidating centralised control of European finances as a result of the Euro crisis which has countries on their knees desperate to be bailed out.

It is possible that the same may one day happen to us. I hope not. But if it happens, don't be deceived by the rich elite saying that it is all the benefit claimants' fault and that old people should work till they drop and have their pensions slashed. It will have nothing tio do with that, and everything to do with power, puppets and plutocrats.

[Xenia]

I don't believe in The Elite. People and families' fortunes are made and lost. Some families manage to retain wealth for a few generations and sometimes longer. Some individuals will always do better than others. It is how we are made for the fittest to survive best. It is inherent in our species.

The progress of humanity - well why is the planet better off if humans are on it than say gases or other life forms?

I don't think windfarms and opera subsidies have much to do with anything. They are pretty de minimis. You just have to look at where our spending goes to see where much of it is headed - state pensions, NHS etc It is these days spent on the people to a much greater extent than ever in our history and at a level we just cannot afford,. We are massively far far too socialist and spending money we don't have propping up a system which is straining at the edges it is so far too generous.

[claig]

Some elite families take drugs and become dissolute and may well wipe themsleves out, but there is always an elite to take their place. We are not all equal, there is a hierarchy and the super rich are at the top of the pyramid and they want to stay there and they think they are born to rule. The hoi polloi cannot join their dining clubs, I am afraid they are not welcome.

'The progress of humanity - well why is the planet better off if humans are on it than say gases or other life forms?'

That is what the elites say and they have set up environmental parties and paid for puppets to sell that message to the people. But the elite don't think gases and ants are more important than them.


'NHS etc It is these days spent on the people to a much greater extent than ever in our history and at a level we just cannot afford'

The NHS saves people's lives and makes them healthy in order that they can carry on working and helping society. The NHS is not just a cost, as thge elite try to proclaim, it is an institution that gets people back on their feet, fit and working again. We need to spend more on the NHS and cut out the green crap, cut the subsidies to aristocratic landowners erecting windfarms and spend it on the nations' health, that will increase teh wealth of the nation and reduce taxpayer subsidies that fill rich landowners' pockets.

The system is not too generous. Nobody is living the life of Riley on benefits. But some BBC payouts and salaries and expenses paid for out of cleaners' pockets are certainly excessive and could possibly be described as taking the piss. It's not just the BBC. Start looking at all teh people's money that is wasted and what it is wasted on. Look at some of the regimes that we pay foreign aid to and look at their human rights.

If we want to save money, then let's cut in the right place, not cut poor people's benefits and health treatment, because in a rich country such as ours, that is a disgrace.

[Xenia]

That's the answer - due to how our species is the superior always prevail. So in one generation the Xenias or the Camerons may do well and someone else badly and then the successful often then have their day and social mobility moves them down and we all have fairly equal chances. My great grandfather worked in the mines. So did that of the Catherine Middleton's family, probably the same mine.

The fact some people succeeed and most don't is wonderful - it's our species, it's how we have been for 2 million years. It is not a bad, but a good. As happiness does not flow from money it matters not a jot if one person is pretty, one is thin, one is tall, one is ugly, one clever or one successful. So what if someone else earns £100k and you earn £20k? Why does it matter so much? It is not for no reason that most religions make a sin of jealousy and envy.

[Abra1d]

I don't think it's envy, so much. I think it's fear. My fear is that my savings, built up sometimes rather painfully over 28 years' work, will not be enough to keep me at a modest level of comfort in retirement. I am 49. I might only have lived half my life.

I agree with Claig about windfarms. Knock them down and stop taxing people so that landowners benefit. And stop defacing the countryside too.

[claig]

'The fact some people succeeed and most don't is wonderful - it's our species'

More like specious.

The fact that most don't succeed is not wonderful. It is wonderful if most do succeed. That is what we want. We want everybody to succeed so that the whole country succeeds, not just a small portion of it. And in order to ensure that we have a state that educates us and heals us when we are sick. We don't want millions of people to be idle with not much money in their pockets - that is a waste of potential. We want everyone to have possibilities to grow and prosper with training and real jobs. That is what creates wealth, when everyone is working to improve their situation and the situation of the whole country.

There is huge wasted potential in this country and education holds the key to unlock it, together with investment to create employment.

We need a national investment bank which funnels money into new ideas that will create future industries (and I am not talking about green baloney).

We need to create a land of opportunity. There are many people who have qualities and talents that outshine those of some privileged people, but they do not receive the same opportunities.

Invest in people, invest in Britain, invest in education and the NHS and divest a few bankers.

[Xenia]

I am not sure labour is always the route to joy, though. They are really interesting issues. We were probably made to sit around, run after a few animals, pick fruit off trees and chat in jungle huts really. In the 60s the white heat of technology was expected to mean most of us would just have to work about 5 hours a day - that was the nirvana presented to the UK population as the future.

[claig]

'We were probably made to sit around, run after a few animals, pick fruit off trees and chat in jungle huts really.'

No we were made to think and feel. We are the most intelligent species on the planet which is why the elite's green message of why do we count compared to ants and the planet is flawed.

We build skyscrapers and rockets that reach the moon and beyond, we fly through the air and travek undersea.

There is nothing like human beings and our potential is limitless.

'In the 60s the white heat of technology was expected to mean most of us would just have to work about 5 hours a day - that was the nirvana presented to the UK population as the future.'

That was a lie sold to us by elite wasters who work only 4 hours a day. They were already planning to lay people off and replace them with machines that could work 24 hours a day. Knowledge is exponential, the more you know, the less you know. The journey never ends. Education, progress and growth is what people want and is what the elite want to stifle with their green low-growth austerity regimes.

[claig]

'That's the answer - due to how our species is the superior always prevail.'

This again is more elitist propaganda to fool the people.

Look at the First World War when we had lions led by donkeys, when men who were more capable were led to slaughter by their superiors, who were not superior in talent, just in rank.

I remember seeing a documentary years ago on fighter pilots in the Second World War in the Battle of Britain. They said teh top ace was a Cockney, but the upper class officers gave him a worse plane than they gave themselves as they were jealous of his skills and his position as ace.

The superior do not always prevail. That is just the lie that hereditary elites spread to justify their position above ordinary people who are often more skilled and worthy than themselves.

I believe in democracy and a meritocracy, with true social mobility, where true talent is given a chance to shine. Yet again, these are not things that the elite believe in because they know it will spell curtains for their green low-growth austerity regimes which keep them at the top of the pile.

[claig]

'the superior always prevail.'

Patriarchal systems kept women down for centuries and denied them an education and opportunities, and in many countries it still happens today. The ruling elite said they were not capable and didn't have what it took. But it was all lies and women surpass men in many fields today.

Break down the barriers, smash through the lies, don't let them grind us down.

[Xenia]

But the smashing through is simply the new best people getting on who may be women who may be working class or black or whatever and as those rise others fall. It is just how it is. There will never be a socialist nirvana where everyone has exactly the same and it doesn't matter as you can be perfectly happy on a low income at the bottom.

Anyway i must get to bed. I need loads of sleep always.

[perceptionInaPearTree]

It's depressing...........

[claig]

We can't wait yet more centuries before a just meritocratic system finally becomes a reality. The clock is being turned back right now. People are beginning to lose rights fought for over decades. We mustn't be taken in by lies and the low-growth lobbyists and think tanks, we have to open our eyes.

Good night.

[ttosca]

Jesus Christ, you're a mentalist Claig. You still think the main groups causing social deprivation, inequality, and social injustice are... environmentalists?!

Yes, man. Open your eyes. Big money is the problem. Not hippies and environmentalists.

[claig]

Many hippies and environmentalists have been duped by the rich elite. The elitist Club of Rome commissioned the 1970s Limits to Growth report which has influenced most environmental and green movements worldwide. Conservation groups and environmental groups are often headed by or were founded by aristocrats. The agenda to stop the growth and development of the world population, to slow the industrial growth of third world countries and the economic prosperity of western nations via the "carbon footprint" and "climate catastrophe" stories are driven by leading politicians of most nations on earth, not by hippies. And we know that politicians depend on funding from backers and donors and hippies don't have those kind of funds.

Unfortunately, your narrow and limited socialist revolutionary misunderstanding of the world has caused you to fail to understand that the "socialists" are also tools of the plutocrats, who fund them and use them to advance their agenda.

[Xenia]

I don't think aristocrats really have that much power these days and in the UK there are not really very many of them.

Some people will always rise and some fall and in all cultures from jungles to towns you will have a few people in charge who tend to be the best or strongest or luckiest ones. 30% of the Amazon tribesmen have killed a man - usually over women. There was never a gorgeous time of peaceful harmony and equality on this planet. That does not mean I am against equal pay laws etc but I don't think we need to sweat too much because some people have more money than others as it doesn't really matter. It doesn't make them happier so let them keep it.

[NonnoMum]

This thread has reminded me why I like MN...