Abuse of hundreds of girls as young as ten covered up by police and social services

[edam]

today's Times - sadly behind a paywall but you can see the first par here - has a major investigation into appalling, widespread organised rape and abuse of girls in South Yorkshire.

Not only did police and social services fail to help the girls, let alone prosecute the offenders, they actually charged victims and their parents - one girl was charged with using drugs, while the men in the room with her went free, while one father who tried to get his daughter back was charged with racial harassment, ffs. AND his poor daughter, who had been drugged, was charged with assault. Another parent was charged with breach of the peace, another girl - only 13 - was arrested for a public order offence and convicted, while the men went free.

It beggars belief. The Times has seen more than 200 confidential documents from Rotherham detailing the crimes which were often not investigated - even though police and social services knew full well who the perpetrators were. But they were more concerned with hushing up the heritage of the offenders - Pakistani, Kurdish, Iranian and Kosovan gangs and families - than investigating hideous crimes.

In one case, police in Bristol rescued two girls who had been kidnapped but South Yorkshire police (where they lived) didn't even question them.

Neither the police nor the council apologised, btw. Oh no, the council just says ofsted think they are great and 'some work with individuals did not lead to court cases for a variety of reasons'. S Yorks Police say now they have eight officers looking into child sexual exploitation and they are 'a leading force in safeguarding vulnerable children'.

[MamaMary]

Have been reading this thread with increased depression - I feel like hiding it. :(

How depressing and utterly shocking that social services could tell a concerned father his daughter was a child prostitute and that it was her lifestyle choice In this day and age when we are supposed to be more concerned about children's rights than ever before in history! Makes you wonder what training these SS receive. OR was the racial element and need to be politically correct so strong that it trumped the children's right not to be abused? And does misogyny play a role too - talk of sluts etc.

For those who say this scandal has nothing to do with race, you are so wrong. If race had not been an issue, something might have been done to protect these innocent and vulnerable young people.

Islam is culturally misogynistic and it is well documented that Muslim men regard Western women as loose and worthless. And no, they don't treat their own women well either.

[KRITIQ]

Yep, this is just becoming a Muslim bashing thread under the guise of concern about abused kids. No one seems interested in discussing the class aspects, nor recent similar cases where perpetrators weren't Muslim or Pakistani. At least one Muslim member has explained why this kind of behaviour isn't sanctioned by her faith, but everyone else seems to know better. And guess what - a person can have been married to a person of colour, even have a non white child and still hold racist views. After all, men can be married to a woman and still have sexist views.

I'll leave you all to it then.

[Childrenofthestones]

achillea said
"How do the Times know about 200 secret files? Perhaps why the story has been cut. "


FOI requests and lots of hard graft.
No achillea the story hasn't been cut. It is still behind the paywall at the Times site.
Unless by cut you mean cut out of every other news agencies and the whole BBC output, in which case, yes it has been cut.
It may has well have had a D notice put on it for the amount of coverage it has had.
As I have said elsewhere, the most sickening thing now is that the lying by omission and obfuscation that the Police and ss were guilty of when they left these children to be repeatedly raped is now being repeated by the media today, even as they pretend to be outraged and giving us all the facts.
People on here and elsewhere are seeing the Rochdale carers report and thinking it is the whole story. The real story is being buried by everyone, the BBC and 90% of the media.

Take the red pill.

[achillea]

I think we need to remember that these paedophile gangs are what they say they are - gangs, groups of corrupt depraved people. They could be muslim or catholic, they could be satanists or evangelists. So there is no point in bringing Islam or religion into this.

The police here were out of their depth and the social services were keeping their heads down. I only hope everyone can learn from this although I doubt it. Even after Victoria Climbie and a full Inquiry with major reforms, we had Baby Peter. As someone said earlier, the care system needs a complete overhaul, and that does NOT mean outsourcing to private companies. The lines of accountability need to be much more clear - as with the Haringey cases, these cases show a similar pattern, that one service will pass the buck to the other, or assume x is dealing with y.

All the services were culpable, and I think this is the case here as well.

We will learn nothing if we keep whittering on about Race, Islam, morals and the Leftie PC brigade. There is a catastrophic failure in the accountability of our institutions and this is what allows such evil to take place under our 'watch'.

[edam]

I think Kritiq's post from late on Monday bears repeating (I have C+Pd below). She suggests that SS is geared up to deal with abusive families or carers, not gangs. So they ignored gangs because they didn't know what to do about them.

The Muslim issue - my analogy would be that child abuse was endemic in the Catholic church for decades. That doesn't mean we stop talking about it, or ignore it because non-priests and non-Catholics also carry out abuse (and Church of England priests - see Megan Stammer's school governor who stands accused of multiple cases).

It's not unreasonable to look at the racial element, both in the way it apparently frightened the authorities off investigating - Anne Cryer MP was shouted down when she tried to raise the issue in West Yorkshire - and in the profile of the perpetrators in some cases. Very far from all cases of abuse, just as Catholic priests are not the only abusers (and clearly not all Catholic priests were/are abusers either). Look at the allegations about Jimmy Saville - we must have police and SS that are not afraid to investigate abuse, no matter WHO the accused is.

Kritiq's post from Monday:

"Beancurd's right on this. I work with kids in an area of the UK that is predominately white British and the problem of child sexual exploitation is rife and extremely worrying. It's worth reading this report (at least the summary at the start) from University of Bedfordshire explaining some of the reasons responses to the problem from all agencies have been pretty feeble so far. (It pertains to England, but the same team are currently undertaking a similar study on behalf of the Scottish Government. I doubt the findings will be all that different.

"I think this issue presents a MASSIVE challenge for all agencies involved in safeguarding children. Child protection policies and procedures are geared up to protecting children who have been harmed or are at risk of harm from their parents or someone in a parent/carer role. They simply aren't set up to deal with this problem.

"The young people involved don't always see what they are doing as harmful. They may see it as doing something "grown up" and like the kudos it gives them amongst their peers as well as the financial rewards. Older siblings or even parents may encourage or at least not discourage them. One 13 year old we worked with was very pissed off when the police got involved because it meant she got in trouble with her parents and cut off her supply line of phone credit, alcohol and cigarettes.

"It's often an older boyfriend who "grooms" them into sexual exploitation, not the stereotype old man in a dirty mac with sweeties. Agencies they come in contact may not notice anything particularly untoward about what's happening when it appears to be in the context of a "relationship."

"Attitudes of practitioners can also get in the way. I've heard senior social workers, teachers, youth workers, health workers and police officers fail to see a child at risk even when they know they are involved in potentially harmful activities. They often see the girls as "streetwise" or "bad eggs" rather than victims of child abuse.

"There needs to be a MASSIVE shift in understanding of the dynamics and process of child sexual exploitation amongst all professionals, and amongst parents as well as a far bigger emphasis on it within schools if this is to be seriously addressed.

"I think we also need to take a sober look at particularly how sexualised messages in popular culture effectively help to "groom" girls in such a way that they are perhaps more susceptible now to sexual exploitation than ever before."

[mathanxiety]

'At least one Muslim member has explained why this kind of behaviour isn't sanctioned by her faith..'

KRITIQ, She has also explained that her faith is not a centrally organised one, and that anyone (any man that is) can lead prayers, issue fatwas, preach about interpretation of Hadith, the Koran, etc. Factions can split off, merge, drive out other points of view -- this is well documented in the case of Saudi Wahhabism. The most fanatical voice now has the wheel in Islam. What non-fanatics feel their faith is all about is completely irrelevant. The driving force behind Islam today is the Wahhabi sect.

[alemci]

also i think the race issue cuts both ways. I think it is racist that the Pakistani men targeted white girls as oppose to Asian girls..

Also the way the authorities are so ineffective some of the time because of being accused of the dreaded 'r' word that aligns one to being a heretic.

I think what makes me frustrated is that it took so long to stop the Rochdale ordeal because of the constraints i have outlined. it strangleholds the police and social services.

Of course there are wicked people in every religion etc. I just think the structure of Islam makes it hard for people to be accountable who are within it as others have pointed out.

[mathanxiety]

"I think we also need to take a sober look at particularly how sexualised messages in popular culture effectively help to "groom" girls in such a way that they are perhaps more susceptible now to sexual exploitation than ever before."

As I did before, I take exception again to this.

This is a way of framing the problem that blames sexualisation of the victims for the behaviour of men towards them. This is absolutely the wrong way to look at the problem. What needs looking at is the attitudes of the perpetrators towards girls and women. Here the issue of Muslim attitudes to women and girls who are not Muslim ('Infidels') is 100% relevant. Also relevant in this context is the increasing acceptability among boys and men of pornography, the continued existence of rags like the Daily Mail and the Page Three phenomenon. In other words, the objectification of women, whether done because of a religious culture or because of lad culture/the vestiges of male privilege.

To get to the root of the problem we have to look at the attitudes of MEN and how it comes about that there are so many men willing to see women as less than them, less than human, existing only to serve their needs, to be props in their fantasies. We need to look at the inadequacy of men and the inability of men to obey the law. We need to look at the inability of men to see women as equal and deserving of respect. We need to identify what it is in the upbringing and the culture of men that makes the objectification and callous disrespect for women possible.

[AmandaHuggankiss]

Speaking of covering up abuse:

www.stainespeople.co.uk/Staines-School-Hide-Secrets-Jimmy-Savile-Abuse/story-15189939-detail/story.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210592/Jimmy-Savile-accused-sexual-predator-women-claim-abused-underage-schoolgirls.html

[AmandaHuggankiss]

alteredge.myfreeforum.org/archive/radio1-djs-paedo-ring__o_t__t_949.html

[MamaMary]

Girls have always been susceptible to sexual exploitation because they are vulnerable in almost every society. I agree with Mathanxiety that the problem lies with men, not the girls themselves. And of course the culture that permits men to carry out these atrocities.

This is not a Muslim-bashing thread. Some people here simply stated the truth: that there is a cultural issue here (on BOTH sides). If it continues to be ignored, lives will continue to be ruined.

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm]

Someone sent me this a few days ago I was shocked and stunned even given my own experiences. This thread makes me sad but not enough that i want to hide it.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[Extrospektiv]

math is right as usual except for her "anti-family" thing; is it really right to quote Bishops from six decades ago opposing a healthcare system as "anti-family" when Catholics do the most pro-family work in the world and are unashamed to do so? All Christians are imperfect, God said as much, and these bishops made a mistake with their interpretation of subsidiarity in Catholic social teaching; a principle Rick Santorum presented in a far better way less contradictory to the doctrine of "preferential option for the poor" in his election campaign; and his book "It takes a Family."

I wish Santorum had been engaged with intelligently on his beliefs for a just modern society where women had equality to men, but the traditional family is preserved: this time, with the end of patriarchal oppression and the aid of reasonable state support to prevent the misogynist mayhem that past "family values" approaches have created.

Instead it's- OH NO, YOU ACTUALLY AGREE WITH CATHOLIC SEXUAL TEACHING, ALL OF IT! EVIL RIGHT WING REACTIONARY BIGOT!- which is not what Santorum is at all. He did go too far by suggesting states should be allowed to criminalise adults having gay sex or using contraception, which would make the US the laughing stock of the world. But his heart was in the right place, and based on respect for CST about the poor, he went against his fellow Catholic Republicans to support a series of welfare provisions.

[Extrospektiv]

I really wish we had Santorum vs Jill Stein and people plumped for the legitimiste reactionnaire over the provocateur extreme-gauche Jacobin

Then Santorum could just let "his people" (heartland voters) secede if he couldn't get the laws he wanted past the Supreme Court or Senate. It may be illegal but nothing could be done to stop him or the secession if the GOP stuck together to reject impeachment and the army weren't going to pull a coup d'etat . Two nations. Let the coastal sophisticates and bon-viveurs join the EU, as someone suggested...

[Extrospektiv]

But in the real world, stuck with BO versus Mittens, I struggle to work out which would be worse and comfort myself with the fact I don't actually vote in US elections.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm, There's also this. Who knows the truth?

[nailak]

I haven't read the thread.

I just wanted to add some of my experiences, in London as a teenager.

Yes there are these gangs of Asian men. No they do not only target white girls.

It was common knowledge amongst me and my friends. However we just thought the girls were slags, we didnt get it. There are plenty of Asian, black etc girls that have been through this sort of thing. I can tell you of Muslim girls that have been groomed by these gangs too.

and these gangs were connected, you would randomly see boys from up north etc appear round.

These girls didnt know they were being groomed, they didnt get it.

The one thing that makes them all in common is they had low self esteem, they wanted validation, and belonging and acceptance and sought it in the wrong places.

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm]

Ah now there is always 2 camps to a story same as lennox the dog and the lemmings .. i'm off to read that page properly, thanks for the link :)

[mathanxiety]

I wouldn't have quoted them except they did it again thirty years later when the Irish Government tried to introduce free healthcare for women and children up to age 16 after WW2 (The Mother and Child Scheme). Apparently that undermined the Family too.

You really can't say Santorum was wonderful except for the bits where he fell off the cuckoo edge of the right wing loony fringe.
Voters are not stupid and they know when they are dealing with someone who does not reflect their sensibilities or their values, which is what the American democratic electoral process seeks to elucidate from candidates; most would be aghast to see the rosy picture you paint come to pass. Most midwestern Americans would be completely gobsmacked at this:
'Then Santorum could just let "his people" (heartland voters) secede if he couldn't get the laws he wanted past the Supreme Court or Senate. It may be illegal but nothing could be done to stop him or the secession if the GOP stuck together to reject impeachment and the army weren't going to pull a coup d'etat . Two nations. Let the coastal sophisticates and bon-viveurs join the EU, as someone suggested... '
Do you live in the US? Do you have any idea how utterly bizarre this vision of yours is?

[searching4serenity]

Shocking story. Why don't more people know about this? Had t heard Hollie's story either. How is not charging these men justifiable?

[Extrospektiv]

It's actually highly liberal Americans, and as far as I know always still living over there, that have suggested the "two-state solution". The red and blue zones are indeed fairly contiguous with most of the red in the less densely populated middle and south. I first heard it as a joke but more recently I've seen people say there are such large cultural differences between one part of the country and another- and they are only getting wider with both sides becoming paranoid in the polarisation- that it would be better for the USA to break into two.

Why do you think the Boston-San Fran-Seattle set call heartland/mainstream America "flyover country"? That term means bigoted, out-of-date rural dwellers who need the metropolitan sophisticates to tell them what to do, expand their government and attack the rights of parents, churches and unborn children they believe in. (I name those three cities because their public health departments are responsible for a Focus on the Family-blasted guide for teens which says people are "born" homosexual, they have no option to change, and how to have anal sex and other gay sex acts safely.)

[Extrospektiv]

"Flyover country" is as far from literally meaning places you rarely need to see except through a plane window (they don't open in mid-air, Mitt) as "urban culture" in a Rush Limbaugh diatribe is from literally meaning the way human beings' social systems, as a whole, have responded to the building of large towns and cities as settlements.

Both are dog-whistles. I'll accept the lunatic fringe of the GOP supporters dog-whistle against The Blacks, so why can you not see the fringe Dems- the type who'd vote Nader, Jill Stein, etc. if there was a chance of them winning- constantly dog-whistle assaults on heartland America and have zero respect for their values?

[Longtalljosie]

I've heard the Hollie story discussed in newsrooms - journalists have looked into it and concluded it doesn't stand up at all

[ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm]

Journalist judgement and integrity is not something i would like to comment on.. here journies, have a

[edam]

Things, as it happened this thread was started by a journalist. Me. On here in my spare time, nothing to do with my job. For a long while, only a handful of other posters were interested.

Whatever you think about integrity (and we don't all work for the News of the World) there is a point in what Longtall's saying. If there was something real there in the story, journalists would be only too happy to run with it - nothing hacks like better than a great story. Sometimes you can't stand a story up because what looks interesting turns out to be nothing, or you suspect there is something there but no-one's talking and you can't get the evidence. Sometimes gossip is just gossip.