Explosion in Oslo

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

No threads here yet?
It looks like a very big explosion, one fatality reported so far. May be terrorism but bbc saying that is speculation.

[NotADudeExactly]

The reason he is being described as "rambling and incoherent" is probably more to do with people not wanting to accept he is "of sound mind" and wanting to write him off as mad. Makes it easier to understand.

This!

Can we please acknowledge that, within his own, completely twisted ideological framework what Breivik did actually makes sense?

Can we please acknowledge that some of this man's views are not actually that rare? You only need to open certain newspapers to read how Muslims are inherently different and incompatible with our culture. Ideas similar to those of Brevik have been published by the likes of Melanie Phillips, Daniel Pipes, Pamela Geller etc. all over the place. Politicians such as Geert Wilders in the Netherlands or certain exponents of the People's Party in Switzerland have made a whole political career out of spewing islamophobic bile not entirely dissimilar from the contents of the Brevik manifesto. And movements such as the EDL are thriving!

I am by no means claiming that the individual named are potential mass murderers. What I am saying is that the ideology that seems to have been driving this man is not as far removed from the political mainstream as we would now probably like to be thinking. We must not be labelling this man and his ideas "other" and dissociate ourselves from them without a degree of critical self-examination.

So can we please not ignore the ideological issues here by just declaring this man insane?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Sakura.... is stating the obvious that men are more involved in violent crimes than women. The prison population is mostly male. The death row inmates in America are mostly male. It's not enough, however, to point out the correllation and claim this as some kind of causality. Clearly, not all men are violent criminals - in fact the vast majority are peaceful and law-abiding. So understanding what it is that triggers such abhorrent behaviour will be far more useful to the creation a better society than inaccurate generalisations.

BTW... the irony won't be lost on you that this crime has happened precisely because the murderer chose to demonise certain parts of his own society. If you demonise men as if they were a homogenous group, you are no better than he is.

[QuintessentialShadow]

Sakura, I dont think laughing at his penis is any where near justice.

[TartyDoris]

Is the killer nurse a killer because she's a woman?

I imagine most people driven to kill have issues with the opposite sex. People in fulfilling relationships don't tend to be driven to murder.

[Empusa]

Sakura I imagine there are other issues at play here other than what he has tucked in his underwear.

Women are just as capable of committing murder.

Saying his gender is the main reason for his crime shows a refusal to take into account all the other reasons (some of which he has explicitly stated).

The reason he is being described as "rambling and incoherent" is probably more to do with people not wanting to accept he is "of sound mind" and wanting to write him off as mad. Makes it easier to understand.

[AnansiGirl]

sakura, there's a thread running on the feminist board that you might find interesting.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1266563-Re-the-Norwegian-deaths

[sakura]

This dudes manifesto has been described as ?rambling and incoherent?. No it isn?t. It?s measured and controlled. He is not some ?lone wolf? but the physical embodiment of a group who are, white male supremacists, the ultimate in the patriarchy


Didn't take long for the media to begin start (predictably) blaming women for men's crimes.
Daily Fail headline calls him "mummy's boy" Heaven forbid we start making men accountable for their own decisions

And the beat goes on... Yesterday a man massacred 6 people in Texas at a roller rink



Honestly, I'm still LMAO at the person on here who said I had "issues with men"

Damn RIGHT I've got issues with men.. and I would ask anyone who doesn't have issues with what men do to check their consciences.

All it takes for evil to success is for good men (sic) to do nothing, or in women's case, pretend it's alway a coincidence tha the murderers are men.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Tyranny, despotism and terrorism are all on the same continuum

[HedleyLamarr]

It is an oft repeated mistruth that Hitler was atheist. Hitler was a christian. Stalin almost destroyed the Russian Orthodox Church both before and after WW2, but allowed it to operate freely during it. If Stalin was a terrorist, then so was the Soviet Union during his time in charge.

[Empusa]

Looks like they've refused him an open trial. BBC are reporting that there are calls for a media blackout too.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"what is it about men that isnt there so much in women?"

It's dangerous to generalise (she says, about to generalise), but I think men are very good at combining 'obsession' with 'competition'. Following football becomes a semi-religious experience, rather than simply a game. It's not enough to own a few stamps, spot a few trains or climb a few peaks, some have to have every stamp, every train, every mountain. The armed forces make good use of the characteristic because they want members to be passionate enough about their regiment, country or cause to fight to the death. Women are perfectly capable of obsessing as well, of course, but I think it's more private than public. Add some aggression into the mix and the football obsession turns into hooliganism and the antiques collector becomes a thief. Add egotism/psychosis/self-righteousness to agression & obsession and we get mass murderers.

[AbsDuCroissant]

Very good article by Charlie Brooker.

It continually pisses me off how sensationalist the news is - there's no seconds pause to actually figure out what's really going on. The purpose of news in this (and many other) country does not seem to be to inform, but to grab attention and push agendas. It's really sickening.

Yip - Stalin, Hitler. Only they weren't termed as "terrorists".

[knittedbreast]

its awful.

However there is a point to be made, it is usually men that commit these crimes. so what is it about men that isnt there so much in women?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Are there no atheist terrorist?"

Of course there are. All they need is the idea that they are supremely in the right, have carte blanche to act as they see fit, identify some vague 'enemy' to be eliminated and they can wreak havoc just as effectively as any religious extremist. Stalin is one famous example of an atheist mass murderer.

I disagree with holding hearings in secret, incidentally. Knowledge is important and there is always something to be learned. If listening to his twisted logic alerts someone that a person they know might be thinking or acting along similar lines, it might prevent a repeat.

[HedleyLamarr]

That Charlie Brooker piece is spot on. My penn'orth; why do terrorists claim to represent one god or other? Are they all fundamentalist [insert deity]? Are there no atheist terrorist? If not, I am even prouder than usual to be atheist.
From Charlie Brookers article: "His name deserves to be forgotten. Discarded. Deleted." And: ". If the media's going to call him anything, it should call him pathetic; a nothing." Could not agree more. Hold all hearings in secret, do not give this pathetic excuse of a human being the oxygen of publicity.

[SeaShellsMyDogSmells]

Really good article, thank you-I'd miss that :)

[BitOfFun]

I read that earlier, yes- really good. A cautionary tale against making stupid assumptions based on one's particular bête noire. Which certain posters could benefit from before banging their drum and making themselves look ridiculous.

[CheerfulYank]

This really isn't the time or place, Sakura.

God, those poor children. Their poor parents. It's just too, too awful. I can't stand it.

[TanteRose]

Charlie Brooker in today's G2 Succint and absolutely on point as always

[SeaShellsMyDogSmells]

Wow, just wow Sakura.

Fight violence with more freedom, more democracy was what the Pm said. I think those were wiser words, Made by a kind and intelligent man (as hey, there are many many many more of those in the world than this one crazy guy)

[wearytraveller]

sakura? you are a mentalist.

[pestroid]

Sakura. Please, stop now.

[sakura]

Bahaha, yes I've got issues with MEN.
GENERALLY, men who decide to wipe out a campfull of teenagers though.

NOt just your average garden-variety man. I'm CHOOSY about the men I've got "issues with"

Posted from another website:

"But this dude is hardly an aberration, despite the media?s attempts to pass him off as a lone, crazed individual, as they always do. The Inquisition was not an aberration. The Crusades were not an aberration. The Nazis were not an aberration. Bosnia was not an aberration. The witch hunts were not an aberration. The Montreal Massacre was not an aberration. The Amish School shooting was not an aberration. The Luby?s Cafeteria massacre was not aberration. The KKK is not an aberration. The Roman, British and Spanish Empires were not aberrations. And neither are the wars in the Middle East. Cripes, how many aberrations do we need before we get that it?s not an aberration? And that white and other male supremacists come a dime a dozen? And how methodical and systematic their extermination is, whether it be by political, economic, religious or military means, or like this dude, just plain old guerrilla warfare? I mean, there?s a woman beaten every 9 seconds, raped every minute, and murdered every 15 minutes in the U.S. Is that an aberration too? Cripes, if it were any other group of people, we?d call it a holocaust. At what point does the media and we, as a society ask, ?What is wrong with men?!? instead of pretending like it?s some sort of aberration?"

[TartyDoris]

Sakura, you clearly have issues regarding men. This really isn't the thread for them. Most men do not kill.