13 yo in the US could be jailed for life for murder without the possibility of parole

[winnybella]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/25/us-boy-accused-murder-appeals

He was 11 at the time of the crime.

While obviously he did a horrible thing, surely it's wrong to imprison a child for life?

What are your thoughts on it?

[HecateQueenOfWitches]

He shot a pregnant women in the back of the head while she slept. He then went to school and about his day as normal.

My sympathy for him is limited.

However, it is so clearly totally abnormal behaviour that something is evidently very wrong with him and should it be shown that he has a mental health problem or other disorder then he will, no doubt, be treated appropriately.

My views on crimes are, I know, deeply unpopular and out of fashion, but I care very little about those who commit crimes and very much about those who are their innocent victims.

[KaraStarbuckThrace]

He knew what he was doing. He must have known what would happen and it was was clearly premeditated.

I cannot bring myself to feel sorry for him when he has taken away 2 lives in such a brutal way.

He carried out an adult crime he should face the consequences.

[foxter]

well said Lilka

[Lilka]

An adult is an adult, and a child is a child.

Whilst SummerRain has a point, babystiing is not truly an adult responsibilty.

If 11/12/13 year olds are to be tried as adults then they must have the same rights and responsibilities as adults. This includes the right to marry, to vote, to drive, to have sex, to buy a house etc. If you would not be comfortable with your 13 year old doing those things, then how can you be okay with them facing adult courts? Lets not forget sitting on the jury as well...30 year olds are hardly the peers of 12 year olds

The brain of a 13 year old is not like the brain of an adult, and brain scans would show you that. I believe the young people of this age have been described as 'brain damaged adults' based on scans. They do not have the maturity and understanding of adults at all, not one 13 year old has the brain of an adult, fact. They should not be tried as adults.

A better system would be IMO locking them up until maybe 25, with mental health treatment if necessary etc then assessing them at that age for release. If they still have murderous thoughts etc they can remain behind bars, if they've changed release them on parole. Case by case basis, no fixed sentences. But no chance of parole at 13 is not right at all :(

[reallytired]

America has an attrious human rights record. In the past they have executed children juveniles. Thankfully the US no longer executes children.

I just hope the child gets a fair trial and is not tried by media.

[foxter]

Is he an adult? No
Therefore, should he be tried as an adult? No

He should be tried as a juvenile because that's what he is. They can still give him a harsh sentence IF he's guilty, but he should defintely not be tried as an adult.

[reallytired]

If the child is guilty then he deserves to be punished. However we do not know what provocation the finacee gave him. Some step mothers are complete and utter bitches from hell. It does not make it right, but it is understandable why a child might decide to murder an obnoxious step mother.

An eleven year old is a child. They don't think like an adult and should not be punished as adults. James Bulger's murders did not get away with their crime.

[WelshCerys]

Pesha - agree completely. 11 is very, very young. Of course the alleged crime is appalling - truly awful.

However, trying the boy in a juvenile court, or equivalent thereof, and, if found guilty, working hard to rehabilitate him, and gently to let him go when it's right to, albeit with appropriate family support, doesn't in any way detract from the horrific nature of the double murder.

No child, no child, should be locked up for life. And trying a juvenile as an adult seems entirely illogical.

[wubblybubbly]

From this article

"But many argue 12 is simply too young to face the prospect of an adult sentence. Due to tough-on-crime laws, Pennsylvania has more juveniles sentenced to life in prison without parole than any other state. Kids charged with murder in Pennsylvania are automatically considered adults and only a judge's decision can move the trial to juvenile court.

"I think the judge's decision in this case is both disappointing, and I think, misinformed," said Lawrence Steinberg of Temple University. "The judge is saying in order to be tried as a juvenile you need to admit that you've done the crime. That doesn't seem quite right to me."

[wubblybubbly]

Well, for a start, his family believe he is innocent!

From the little reading I've done, it seems he could only be tried in a juvenile court if he admitted the crime.

I've found this website which puts the view point of this child's supporters.

[girliefriend]

He def should not be treated as an adult and there should be an investigation into why a child committed such a violent act. Normal, happy 11 yr olds don't shot someone in the back of their head. Awful

[SummerRain]

What I meant was surely the people objecting to his trial as an adult and protesting against it... most notably his father.... would have brought it to media attention when they made their objections to his trial as an adult public.

[wubblybubbly]

SummerRain, he hasn't had a defence yet, he hasn't been tried.

[SummerRain]

Pesha, I was doing all those things at 11 and was babysitting my cousins at 12. So based on my own abilities, responsibility and awareness at that age I would assume a child of 11 to be capable of understanding the consequences of his actions in this instance. Unless of course there are mental health issues or SN in play, which seems unlikely as surely such information would be used in his defense?

[wubblybubbly]

At risk of stating the obvious, this child is guilty of nothing - he hasn't faced trial yet.

It seems ridiculous that a child is automatically treated as an adult, WTF? He was 11 years old.

Should a child victim was expected to face cross examination in the same as an adult would?

Great post pesha.

[truffleshuffle]

It's a difficult one. As others have said it's hard to judge when we have no background story about the boy.

The rest of his life in prison, well that could be 80 years couldn't it? That's a hell of a long time.
But you have to stike a balance don't you. it wouldn't be fair for him to basically get away with it like those two pieces of shit that killed James Bulger did.

He could be given 30 years and still have some sort of life when he comes out.
but like I've said it's hard to judge.

[Ormirian]

"Are these the same people who think 11 is too young to be left alone or allowed to cross busy roads on their own or go to the cinema alone?!"

Good question pesha.

No child should face the rest of his life in jail.

[Pesha]

I'm shocked that there are so many people here who think an 11yo should be tried as an adult. Are these the same people who think 11 is too young to be left alone or allowed to cross busy roads on their own or go to the cinema alone?!

At 11 yo a child is not old enough get a job or live alone or drive a car or any other adult thing because they are a CHILD, they are not responsible enough, they don't understand the rules and complexities of adult life and cannot be relied upon to keep themselves and others safe.

Yes they may have a fairly well developed understanding of right and wrong and of what death is but not to the same extent as an adult.

A lot of 11 yos are still at primary school ffs. They are children and still have so much learning and growing to do.

What this boy did was a terrible thing, I don't for one second deny that but the fact is he WAS a child and should be treated as such.

As others have said I really do wonder what had happened to this boy to bring him to a point where he could commit such a crime.

Am also disgusted at the idea of a gun made specifically for children and the fact that, in America, here or any other country, a child can have their own gun - a weapon designed for no other reason than to cause death.

[begonyabampot]

Stella Rose don't agree that America is a dangerous place and the people are desensitised to crime, some perhaps but you I doubt it's any more than here. Much of america is very family orientated with deep set religious beliefs - it has it's criminals but what you described about this poor woman, could happen as easily here and has.

[johsibo]

"life means life" as they say.
Fair enough as he took not only the womans but the babys too.

11 is old enough to know what is a gun and what it does and what is wrong and what is right.

It´s hard when you think that this boy also is someones child. How it must have been (and will forever be) hard for his father to lose his fiancee and his new baby and now to another child too but in the end I think this way is the best.

[PaulaMummyKnowsBest]

I'm sorry but if you ask a child of that age "What would happen if you shot a lady in the head with a real gun?", I suspect that most children would say "The lady would die".

Whether this child realised the baby would die too is unknown but it is a horrific crime that needs to be punished.

[Dropdeadfred]

He took two lives in cold blood...why should he enjoy his? (his is no taking into account if he did have mental healh issues as his defence does not seem to be arguing that point)

[zozzle]

Terrible act of course however he is a minor and should therefore be treated as one.

I agree ConnorT - you have to ask the question what has happened to this boy in his childhood for him to do this - either that or he is mentally ill (or both). That doen't excuse his actions but might go some way to explaining them.

The gun laws in the US are obviously completely bonkers!

The Bulger case showed that many people seem to demonize child killers more than adult killers - which also is completely bonkers!
An appropriate punishment is of course needed here but as a Christian I believe no one is beyond redemption.

[StellaRose11]

I agree with SummerRain and minibmw2010, the boy understood the consequences of his cold blooded, murdeous act. At 11 I understood life and death, right from wrong. If he has any learning difficulties don't you think that would be flaged by now in court and in the news. The wild west each to their own gun (amongst others) culture enjoyed by a lot of Americans has given their children disregard for human life. I know an American who gets a gun because he's too afraid not to, since everyone on his street has one. My partner's aunty was raped in broad day light at gun point with people passing and nobody helped her. She committed suicide not long after. The point is the US is a dangerous place, people toughen up, become desensitised with crime, and committing crime, and that applies to children AND adults. So perhaps their systematic errors have infiltrated society from the roots, only systematic change in culture and education can bring about a balance, that or just lock them away.