Belfast riots

[TwoIfBySea]

Anyone else think that these marches should be banned outright until the bigots learn to behave themselves?

I have very strong feelings on this as I grew up with family members on my mother's side in the Orange Lodge and the bile they spouted made me sick. Now I live in a town where there are Orange order bands, including children, keeping the hatred alive!

This isn't Ireland but Scotland and I'm sick and tired of it. It just shows how pathetic some people can be with priorities so skewed it is a wonder they can get out of bed in the morning without wanting to paint the grass orange so it isn't green anymore!

[chipmonkey]

I spent the one student summer in the states and worked in a fast-food restaurant. We had a cup labelled "tips" on the counter which was usually almost empty. One day we had the bright idea of writing "tips for the Irish" onit and decorating it with shamrocks.(Yes, I know, very cheesy!) Anyway our tips increased threefold so we kept it like that! One day, a customer looked at it and said "What are you going to buy with it, bombs?" I was so gobsmacked that someone could think that way. it was a huge shock to find that a lot of Americans perceived the whole of Ireland to be permanently in a state of turmoil. And at the time, shopping up North was way better than down South so I had visited Belfast a few times, was always made to feel welcome and never once saw an ounce of trouble

[chipmonkey]

And fin54 is right, the hatred is on both sides.

[chipmonkey]

Hermykyne, I think part of the reason that Sinn Fein are so well-represented here in the Republic is actually nothing to do with the North of Ireland at all. The current government have really neglected the poorer communities here and sinn fein have marketed themselves as a socialist party. Hardly anyone here votes Green because people are very blase about the environment and because not many people are impressed by their non-environmental policies. Also at the last elections Sinn fein collected a lot of their voters by bus to bring them to the tolling booths! I don't know of any other party that would go to the bother. I doubt if they'll do so well the next time. Gerry Adams and co. have lost a lot of support since the McCartney murder.

[fin54]

Having lived in Scotland and now Northern Ireland this hatred is on both sides.

[TwoIfBySea]

That must be so frightening Bethron. There are idiots where I live, in fact a couple of neighbours, who are very into the marching and hatred, they go to Belfast for marches so it isn't just your thugs you have to worry about but ones coming from Scotland too!

I don't know if anything could be done really to change the mindset of these people, the hatred is so ingrained.

[anniebear]

Very well put Bethron

[TwoIfBySea]

OMG Chipmonkey that is horrendous, that poor little boy. It is unspeakable what these thugs will do all in the name of a stupid march!

[chipmonkey]

Well, really if this little boy's face is anything to go by, I wonder whether any march is worth it

[hermykne]

trefusis, i type my post and it might be an hour before i get back to the comoputer so if i got into debates i'd lose the/my line of thought completely and couldnt keep up!

[fin54]

Chipmonkey, I am British and wish to remain British so why should some other person tell me that the British Goverment should abandon me and the rest of the people in N.I. who wish to remain British. We do pay taxes the same as English & Scottish people.

I was refering to this quote below

" but i think the british governemnt would be quite happy not to have the cost of northern ireland on its balance sheets now "

[chipmonkey]

Fin54 " Ireland is not Britain"
Who said it was?

[piffle]

But within the Good Friday agreement is still the ability to amend/reclaim to constitutional claim to Ireland IF the majority in NI wish.
AS one woman asking Ian Paisley what she could do for the Protestant cause?
Get home and starting breeding like thise Catholic bastards was heard...
My Father he was Orange and me mother she was green, so I've had me ears boiled in it all since birth and beyond...

[hermykne]

irih bird i do believe that certain northern ireland towns and cities had to increase business rates to fund infrastructure for those councils because the monies from the government was/is being reduced.

the balance of votes in northern ireland is changing. towns in the north east dont vote for the same electoral candidates or parties, UUP, DUP, SDLP or SF.they dont exist in the mainland.

listen i really dont want to get into a debate on mumsnet , i never have , really my topics are breast and bottlefeeding and food/health.
lets not get into an argument. only one on this thread i think!

[Aero]

Oh, and forgot to mention, my family are totally ok with the fact that dh 'kicks with the other foot' to coin a phrase (although he is not from NI himself, but his parents grew up in the South). His family are totally accepting too. That's another (small) part of the reason we don't live there though.

[noddyholder]

I agree with you Aero Every time I go there my relations ask me why I don't move back but I just can't.My brother moved back several years ago and has found the differing attitudes hard He has been single for yrs and met a girl he like and vice versa He was told in no uncertain terms to keep away from her by her brothers who took an instant dislike to him just because he had lived in England never mind that he was born in Northern Ireland and raised there.Until these attitudes change it will stay the same.

[Aero]

I found that comment offensive too Taramac. I was born and bred in N Ireland and I agree that the problems caused by the marches from either side are just not worth it (but unlikely to change due to deep mindsets). Hence I live in England and don't wish to bring my children up at home. I find that sad though as NI is such a special and wonderful place and the friendliness of most of the people is second to none. I just don't want my children to face what I see as un-necessary bigotry every day like I did. But to write us all off in one sentence - yes, I must admit, I felt hurt that some people still tar us all with the same brush.

[taramac]

I have lived here fo @16 years so not born and raised but my parents were born here and my partner is from here.

I find your comment quite offensive TwoIfBySea that you can write a whole nation of people off in literally one sentence.

As fin54 said there are marches on both sides here - everyone involved in any of them are responsible for the rioting etc not just one side or the other. It does seem to be a minority that cause the trouble and damage.

I do think they should ban all the marches even though I accept they are a part of Catholic and Protestant culture. When one sides culture is at the expense of anothers then it is not worth it in my opinion.

I think NI would like to beindependent and I for one would certainly like to see the British army leave here - I resent having to be stopped at check points etc (although that is definitely lessening now)and seeing armed soldiers in full riot gear every summer. I resent having flags hung in my streets that offend me.

However as a relative outsider I think it is s ingrained in the mindset here that I honestly dont think things will change and as quite a economically poor country with relatively high unemployment in certain provinces I dont think people on the whole see a way out of this cycle.

[fin54]

I also live in Northern Ireland and how dare some person who knows nothing about NI say that the British Government would be quite happy not to have the cost of Northern Ireland on its balance sheets now. WE ARE BRITISH and yes this weekend has been bad but I wonder what would have happened if the Parade had walked on the rout it has walked on for years, the Catholic's of this country WOULDN'T be sitting doing nothing believe me they would be rioting as well. And for banning all marches " maybe your right " but that includes Republican Sine Fein marches that take place on a regular basis in the County.
AND IRELAND IS NOT BRITAIN

[noddyholder]

I was brought up until i was 15 in northren ireland and i think a lot of people there are so used to all of this that it is part of their lives now and they are scared to let it go.I think this has infiltrated every day life and people to some extent and agree with twoifbythesea Iknow mant people there who wouldn't 'fight with thier shadow'but a lot more who would Within my family there is always someone not speaking to someone else and they hold grudges forever (literally)It does my head in when i am there as there are also those who just want to get on with life in what is a truly beautiful country

[highlander]

If you go to Ulster, you'll barely be aware of the troubles except if you stray into the scummy Belfast housing schemes. The people who maintain sectarianism are very much in the minority. Since the Peace Agreement the standard of living has improved dramaticaslly in Ulster, so much so that no-one (except the scummy nutters) wants to return to the bad old days, no matter what their politics may be.

(and I realise I've some generalisations here).