So child benefit to go for higher rate taxpayers

[foxinsocks]

So says George osbourne on breakfast telly. Missed the details but sounds like it comes in from 2013!

[fijamez]

As a single parent who is also fortunate enough to be a higher rate tax payer, I am reconciled to the concept that tax rises (which this is) are inevitable in an effort to reduce the deficit.

I fail to see, however, how taking child benefit from someone like myself earning £45k as the sole earner (with no support at home and therefore required to pay full time childcare costs of £845 pm) or more while enabling a dual income household to receive child benefit while earning upto £87k pa can be described as fair.

I am not arguing for the retention of benefits for myself and other higher rate tax payers simply that all households on the same income be treated equally.

We are "all in this together" and this current proposal is manifestedly unfair and intellectually lazy. If the other universal benefit of winter fuel allowances escapes reform the moral cowardice in the face of political expediency will be complete.

[Hammy02]

ArcticRoll Tue 05-Oct-10 10:15:01
It would be fairer and cheaper to administer to just raise taxes for all higher rate taxpayers.

Hang on, what about people that are in the higher tax bracket that don't have children? They are already paying more into the system than they are taking out as they are not using the education system/NHS anything like as much as someone with kids.

[nikija]

Yes I'm up for campaigning against this. I think mums should join together and demonstrate - let's take our kids with us AND our bank statements so they can see how hard it is to get by and we're pretty darn close to joining the ranks of the low paid underclass.

[cal123]

Hi All

My husband is a so called high earner and works abroad most of the time leaving me to look after our two kids and work part time.

We have discussed this situation and decided if this does all go through that we have had enough of paying all our taxes and getting nothing back out the system. So we are going to get what we are calling a paper divorce..sod this!..we are financally better off being divorce and although we still love each other purely on money terms this is a ridiculous situation.

So much for keeping families together and mending broken Britain!!...Thought this lot would be different but No!...they look after themselves as usual..and we..middle Britain that works hard and pays the most taxes get nothing back.

Marriage and family means nothing anymore..thats where Britain has gone wrong...so if you can't beat them you may as well join them....why should my children lose out they cost just as much as the next persons to bring up!!!

sorry for the rant....but this has made my blood boil....Thanks Mr Cameron...may as well have just kept Labour in!!!

[jen333]

My partner generally earns just over the threashold (runs a small business). We are not married and do not have a joint bank account - the child benefit is the only money I actually receive.

I have enabled a number of my friends to return to work as I often collect their children from school. I calculate that they will have a family income far greater than ours and will still be receiving child benefit but I will not.

So many of the governments cuts seem to be aimed at children - schools rebuilding projects, child services, child benefit, university fees. Are children an easy option?

[sweetkitty]

I have just worked out that we will be losing £3146 a year tax free so I don't know the figures but how much more will DP have to earn for us to break even.

Oh but wait a minute he will get an extra £150 a year tax break!

But apparently we are loaded and we don't need CB anyway

DP has worked his bollocks off, had career development loans and paid them off to get a decent job and now we are being penalised for it.

With 4DC we would be better off signing on then at least the DC would see their father all the time instead of him out working to provide for them.

[Lottiegal]

I think all these women should demonstrate, lets set up a group on the campaigns page

[scaryteacher]

'How when it's unfair to ask low rate tax payers to pay Child Benefit for high rate payers' but they are not asked to do so. The tax my higher rate dh pays more than covers the cb for our one child; higher rate taxpayers pay tax, that's why they are higher rate!

I am more cross about the loss of HRP for non working Mums and the regressive tax move, effectively ending independent taxation, than I am about losing cb. HMRC should not be able to link my tax affairs with those of my husband given that they have nothing but two ITRs sent to different Tax Offices to go on. It's the double whammy -give up cb or pay tax on it, and then pay voluntary NICs to keep your contributions for your pension in place.

[nikija]

Not only are child benefits going to be cut if someone earns more than £45k - which is next to nothing when you live in London and only one person works.

But I discovered today that we don't get any more child tax credit despite my partner losing his job last week. I bring home £1200 and our rent is £1500 (standard rental in London by the way). We've tried to find cheaper place but we need space for three of us plus a second child on the way. And it wouldn't be much cheaper than £1200.

I'm sick of being penalised as a working (and now partly unemployed) family. So evidently our household income has to be less than £16k to get any more child tax credit. So they are driving families to not work and end up on benefit.

I'm sick of struggling and want to demonstrate outside Parliament.

[Remotew]

It's really strange and sad to see middle income families talking about splitting up, working less hours etc to make the most of the system, not that I think this will happen much.

That's how life has been all the way through for me and many others bringing up children alone or on low incomes. Toss up between working more hours for £10 a week/more time at home. Staying single to protect a minimum level of income/taking a chance on a partner who might not want to share. It's called the benefit trap and the more people are out of it the better.

Does anyone know what they are proposing re Uni tuition fees?

[going]

ANTagony I think it doesn't apply to HTR.

[foxinsocks]

should also point out a fact that dawned on me this morning

child benefit was one of those benefits that wasn't taxable

so therefore, the amount you got (if you were working and paying tax), went straight into your pocket. If you were a SAHM, this fact probably didn't matter as it would have come in under a tax free allowance even if it was taxable.

so if you are a single working parent paying 40% tax, getting £2,000 child benefit a year and then lose it, effectively, it is almost like losing £3,333 worth of your gross income. So if you were earning £45,000, that $3,333 is 7.5% of your gross earnings! A hell of a payrise to ask for if you were using CB to balance your books!

[ReshapeWhileDamp]

Luciemule, that's our situation too. DH is a couple of grand above the tax bracket and therefore pays higher rate of tax. I am a SAHM and Child Benefit was the only money I was paid for doing what I think is a pretty important job. Obviously there are going to be people who foam at the mouth at that - it was my choice to have children and my choice to stay at home with them. However. DH's income is all we will have for forseeable future. I am due DC2 in december, so come 2013, I will be £1608 worse off.

But there are two years for this to be fine-tuned. Given the mass media hysteria about this (incl the Torygraph!), can we be reasonably secure in thinking that they will rejig it and at least make it fairer to implement? I am most cross at the idea that two earners getting £40K a year will keep their benefit, whereas someone just over the tax bracket and the only earner, will lose it.

[LilRedWG]

Excellent letter rantyknickers - used here too. Thanks.

[MaryBS]

Also too late for me. Perhaps I can use the quote when I get fobbed off a reply

[littlemaytree]

Apart from the laughable spectacle of Osborne saying "We're all in it together" How when it's unfair to ask low rate tax payers to pay Child Benefit for high rate payers is it apparently fair to ask those families on 45K to do without 2.5K (or more if they have a larger family)but continue to pay it to families with 86K coming in. In addition it will especially hit single parents who don't have the option of a partner who's at home going out to work.

[luciemule]

oh bum - oh well - too late now but fab quote miss daisy.

[drivingmissdaisy]

If anybody is writing to their MP about this you may want to include this quote from David Cameron in a speech to the Welsh Conservative Conference, March, 2009 "Families are the most important institution in our society. We have to do everything in our power to strengthen them." Talk about hypocrisy.

[luciemule]

Thanks ranty- have copy and pasted the majority of your letter and sent it to my MP - who is a woman with little children so she might know where we're coming from .

[medicmummy]

The decision by the conservatives to scrap child benefit for higher rate tax payers is an utter disgrace. Child benefit should be universal in a society that values families. I earn just above the tax threshold, and it is people like me, the people in the middle that will feel this the most. Child benefit is crucial in giving mothers the option of taking time out from work and care for their children. This cut will limit the choices of mothers. If the conservatives really valued families and stay at home mums, they would not even consider this measure.

[BeenBeta]

rantyknickers - very good letter indeed.

You also described perfectly my parents right down to the new conservatory and cane furniture. I spoke to them a few week ago about pension ages going up. They just dont get it.

siasl - even though what you proposed would potentially hit me hard. I agree. Someone has to pay more tax and as long as benefits were capped and people who can work were made to work then I am happy to accept the cost.

gramercy - totally right about the baby boomer generation. They are such a dominant voting block and their sense of entitlement and the way they dominate political policy choices now is reaching offensive levels.

[ANTagony]

Didn't they say on the news this am that they're going to do something about transferring the SAH parents tax allowance to the working parent to balance out some of the unevenness?

I know this doesn't help single parents but its potentially a small concession, for some, that didn't get announced yesterday. Role on the 20th October when it all stops being rumors and we can actually take stock of how we're effected.

[attlee]

Absolutely,gramercy - if fees are £10k pa, a reduction in gross salary of £15k pa equates to a break-even situation, if the reduction in salary equates to full funding for university. Add in child benefit and tax credits and a reduction in salary from £50k to £30k looks to good to refuse.