Wrongly classed as having special needs?

[DinahRod]

The article here

"In all, 1.7 million children in England are identified as having special educational needs. The vast majority come from disadvantaged homes. In three per cent of cases (250,550), the need is obvious and acute, such as blindness or deafness, and they receive the help they need speedily.

"Christine Gilbert, chief executive of Ofsted and chief schools inspector, said: "We found that schools are identifying pupils as having special educational needs when they just need better teaching and pastoral support.

"If they had been identified better in the first place, their needs wouldn't be so acute later on. More attention needs to be given to identification."

She added that there was a "poor evaluation at all sorts of levels of pupils' needs".

"With over one in five children of school age in England identified as having special educational needs, it is vitally important that both the way they are identified and the support they receive work in the best interests of the children involved.

"Higher expectations of all chilren, and better teaching and learning, would lead to fewer children being identified as having special educational needs."

The review urges schools to analyse the effectiveness of its teaching ? rather than put in for extra support ? when a child falls behind in class."

[cory]

I like the way you contrast perfectly clever with SEN, hotspot,as if they were somehow opposites. Tell that to the student with mental health issues or severe dyslexia! Or to my dd who is sometimes in so much pain that she cannot sit upright or hold a pen and who goes through intermittent periods of extreme panic attacks and depression. Or to the autistic child or the child with Aspergers.

[cory]

How does your son actually know about the SEN or non-SEN of everybody in his school? I thought that sort of thing was confidential unless the parent/student chose to reveal it.

As a university teacher I am occasionally involved in arranging extra time for students who need it - and you know what? they don't come with a label branded into their forehead. They look just like everybody else. Shocking, isn't it?

As does my son whose chronic joint condition means that he is in pretty well constant pain when writing- but there is no way your son would know that from looking at him. And as the consultant has told him that he will be bullied if his mates at secondary find out he is disabled, you can be fairly sure that he is going to be reticent about it.

I am glad that my own teen does not spend her time making ill informed judgments about other people. But then though perfectly clever she is also disabled- again, you couldn't tell from looking at her!

[Lancelottie]

Good god, did you agree with your grumpy teenager's view of all this, or did you gently challenge his assumpttion that all SEN are blindingly obvious?

My son (top sets for everything) will get 25% extra time, hotspot, because he has Aspergers. Could go either way: he could whizz through his GCSEs in the same time as everyone else, or he just might have an utter meltdown at the pressure, in which case 25% extra will do him no good at all, so I'm not sure how I feel about it.

You, on the other hand, sound very cross about the unfairness of having a child without additional needs. Would you mind telling me where these obliging EdPsychs all live, because there's a sad lack of them round here.

[hotspot]

To my horror, I was told by my son who attends a very competitive, private school, that at the recent GCSE examinations, he noticed some of his perfectly clever class mates were among a surprisingly large cohort of candidates enjoying an extra 25% extra time and use of laptops for no apparent reason other than that their parents had managed to find obliging Ed-Psych's willing to tick the SEN box for a fee. This cannot be fair.
Surely the results show on the Certificates that these candidates had extra time?

[cory]

I can't marry you, Claw: I have just been elected pope by Hully on another thread, busy polishing my halo (and doling out condoms on the sly).

[Claw3]

Cory, we are agreeing on everything now, we shall have to get married

[cory]

I couldn't agree with you more, Claw! We must stand up against this.

And to your list, I would add invisible physical disabilities, or indeed any disability that the headteacher has never heard of/chooses not to believe in because of illfounded newspaper reports.

Dd's headteacher spent several years hinting that dd (who was in a wheelchair for a lot of the time) could not possible be disabled because she looked normal and besides was not Registered Disabled - whatever that might mean (she had a diagnosis). He believed that there exists some mythical register of all bona fide disabled people and that referring to a person not on this list as disabled is tantamount to fraud.

His response to any demand for support was to ring Social Services and ask them to investigate our parenting.

[Claw3]

Cory, if you think that most of the children that have been identified as having SEN's by schools are the ones with obvious difficulties ie physical difficulties, aggressive or disruptive behaviour, those who are behind with reading etc. How many more are there, who dont have obvious physical difficulties or disruptive behaviour who are suffering in silence and are overlooked.

And will probably remain overlooked, due to stupid reports like this one.

My own ds for example now has a dx of

ASD
Difficulties with interacting
Difficulties with understanding
Sensory difficulties
feeding difficulties
continence issues

Teachers (with no knowledge of SEN or SN's) explained this away to every outside agency as:-

Difficulties with interacting - he likes his own way. Spoilt brat syndrome.

Difficulties with understanding - he is rude.

Sensory difficulties - attention seeking, sulking.

Feeding difficulties - ie he is fussy because mum made him that way.

continence issues - he is lazy.

They told every outside agency that his behaviour must be as a result of bad parenting because they did not have a clue what sen's or sn's involved. To them an sen child is behind with school work, aggressive or is blind etc.

This report will reinforce ill informed teachers, TA's opinions.

[cory]

Absolutely agree with this, Claw. Nothing must cost any money. And this report can easily be used to suggest that all children with SEN are costing lots of money, some children with SEN do not demonstrably need lots of money spent on them- therefore we can cut the funding. Which totally leaves to one side the point that those with "cheapo" SEN probably aren't getting any money spent on them at all, and even the ones with very profound and complex needs aren't getting enough.

[Claw3]

Cory, there have been a lot people disagreeing, but agreeing in a round about way on this thread, just shows how complex it all is!

Yes i would agree we need appropriate help and what is appropriate for one child, isnt appropriate for another.

In my experience all we seem to get is the cheap help. Also if teachers and TA's have no training or knowledge of SEN, how can they identify difficulties or flag them up.

A good example was my own ds, numerous outside agencies went into school and the school were reporting to them that ds had no difficulties, so they didnt bother going back.

My ds is very like your dd, he doesnt cause a problem to anyone, therefore he has no problems.

Well until recently, literally the last few weeks ds has started to be aggressive to other children. So perhaps the kids who bite, kick, scream, started off not being a problem to anyone too. Perhaps they are biting, kicking and screaming because they are not having their problems dealt with.

[cory]

What the government are basically trying to do is ruling by dividing. First get the different people dealing with different SEN to feel that if only resources were concentrated on their particular needs there might finally be enough- and then cut the lot!

[cory]

I think we are really saying the same thing, Claw: it's the simplifying we are against, the one-approach-fits-all.

What I am saying is, yes, we do need more trained people, but we also need cheap people who can do the basics for the children who need that, like act as a scribe or help a child with his typing. Lots of people can type, so in a case like this it is going to be a lot cheaper and quicker to use a TA who can, rather than wait for a SEN trained person. This does not negate the need for lots more competent qualified SEN trained staff; it just complements it.

Lougle,
"How do you define "profound and complex Special Needs"? Even under the current wasteful system, there was never any money to provide any support whatsoever for children like dd (in constant pain and unable to perform many basic tasks due to physical SN). But no, support must be reserved for children with Profound Needs (read: children who might bite the headteacher)."

That's a bit harsh, Cory"

Not harsh at all when describing the attitude of our junior school, I can assure you, Lougle. It was perfectly obvious that the reason dd got no support whatsoever was that nothing very dramatic would happen to disrupt the school day if she didn't.

I never ever said that I thought non-disruptive children did not deserve to get help- just that it didn't happen at dd's school. Dd was left in a classroom on her own with worksheets for a whole term during all the lessons in a key subject: you bet they didn't do that to the children who might wreck the classroom.

I am ^not saying that disruptive children do not deserve support- of course they do, and this is one reason I am so worried about this report. I am also not saying that I believe that all children on the autistic spectrum are disruptive. Only that ime the non-disruptive ones were the ones that missed out on support.

[Claw3]

Cory, i assume the TA is trained in touch typing or can at least type, so he is receiving appropriate help?

Most teachers and TA's have no knowledge or training of ASD for example, which is quite a common disorder.

How can anyone expect teachers and TA's to recognise the difference between SEN and a child who just needs a good teacher, if they have no training in SEN?

Just needing a good teacher, is over simplifying the matter vastly.

[Lougle]

"How do you define "profound and complex Special Needs"? Even under the current wasteful system, there was never any money to provide any support whatsoever for children like dd (in constant pain and unable to perform many basic tasks due to physical SN). But no, support must be reserved for children with Profound Needs (read: children who might bite the headteacher)."

That's a bit harsh, Cory

There are many of us with children who have complex needs. My DD1 is one of them. She has yet to bite a head teacher.

I would prefer to see that adequate support is given for all children with significant SNs, regardless of classification.

But we must also remember that reading is a basic life-skill, fundamental to most activities of daily living. It is short sighted to suggest that because lots of children struggle with something it therefore isn't important.

[cory]

How do you define "profound and complex Special Needs"? Even under the current wasteful system, there was never any money to provide any support whatsoever for children like dd (in constant pain and unable to perform many basic tasks due to physical SN). But no, support must be reserved for children with Profound Needs (read: children who might bite the headteacher).

Speaking as a university teacher, I do wish for a state of affairs where dyslexia is picked up early though. We spend too much time dealing with undiagnosed dyslexia: these are clearly not students who have never learnt to read or never been stimulated by an interesting teacher; they are bright and engaged students who cannot understand why all the hard work they are doing just isn't getting anywhere because they can't cope with the written page. From what I can see, it's a myth that everybody who needs to get diagnosed with dyslexia does so in primary school.

[allchildrenreading]

Funds need to be shifted urgently to those children with profound and complex Special Needs. Instead, around 2005 it was decided to put masses of resources into "teaching" struggling 5 3/4 year olds how to look for clues when learning to read. For around 23% of these children it's the equivalent of looking for Wally in a Where's Wally picture. For others it will help for 2-3 years - memorization helps when they see words over and over again. These are the children who will arrive at secondary school unable to access the secondary curriculum as they haven't memorized sufficient words. Reading Recovery is estimated to cost up to one billion pounds over the coming years.And yes, they do a fair bit of praising everything. ColdComfortFarm has hit the nail on the head:

"Dyslexic kids need good quality literacy teaching from reception, not counsellors because they are discouraged. It is amazing the difference a good teacher can make."

Children who struggle to read, need more time to practice the basic skills of reading. The cost of good quality literacy teaching? A fraction of that now being poured into this one-to-one pot-pourri "teaching". These children don't require labels but they do need teachers who have been trained in College to teach children how to read. But logical instruction is too skills'-based for the education establishment. Teachers are left in ignorance.

Pity the children who are given the inappropriate 'help', and pity those children who are starved of the help and expertise they so badly need.

[cory]

"I havent seen the research, but can believe that it shows that when a child is given hours of TA time this has NOT improve their outcome. That is my whole point. TA's are not trained and often have limited knowledge of SEN's."

Claw, surely that depends on the individual child and what their needs are.

Ds has a TA to come in for 20 minutes to teach him touch typing- because writing is something his SN makes very difficult for him. He doesn't need someone who is trained in SN in general, but someone who can deal with his specific difficulties. Sometimes that person may be a TA. Sometimes it may be a SALT, or someone specifically trained in SEN. But it all depends on the child.

Ds would fail dismally if he had to sit around and wait until someone came who was specially trained in his SN, because there are very few such people around. He needs somebody cheap who can come in and help him with the basics now, not in 6 months time. On the other hand, a brilliant and stimulating teacher would not make things better for him: in fact, if she encouraged him to write more it would be detrimental, as that could permanently damage his body.

I think the greatest danger to SEN provision is if we let politicians talk as if every child was the same. This provision doesn't work for child A, therefore we will cut it for all children. TAs are useless for some children with SEN and essential for others.

Dd was turned down for the only secondary school that was actually suited to her needs because it was not on the council's list of "schools suitable for SN". I had a hard job explaining to the appeals panel that actually, dd doesn't need a school that is adapted to children with SN in general;; she needs a school that is adapted to her needs.

[Claw3]

Coldcomfort, we are kind of agreeing in a round about way!

I havent seen the research, but can believe that it shows that when a child is given hours of TA time this has NOT improve their outcome. That is my whole point. TA's are not trained and often have limited knowledge of SEN's.

Outside agencies need to be more specific with the help required and how it should be implemented. Local authorities need to be more specific with the help required. More specialist input is required and more training.

For example my own ds when at school action +, recommendations from outside agencies were things like visual timetables, sequencing charts. But the TA and teacher did not know how to use these. No improvement was made.

Another example SALT recommended that ds receive 1:1 20 minutes of therapy twice a week and that she would review in 6 months time. The TA is expected to implement this with no knowledge or training. In 6 months time ds hasnt met any of his targets. Why? because the help he received is inadequate.

Now i have applied for a statement, the help written into that statement will be non specific and therefore not secure. I will have to go to tribunal to get the local authority to specify exactly what help and how it should be implemented.

Given i have meet some terrible teachers. Most are terrible because they have no understanding, knowledge or training of SEN's.

My ds attended a school where not a single teacher or TA had any training in SEN's. He failed terribly at that school.

I have moved him to a school where every teacher has had ASD training and the change in the help he receives and the understanding has been amazing.

[ColdComfortFarm]

Claw, I'm sorry but I think you are confusing me with someone with no knowledge of the system. I have a child with SN - a statemented child - who has been in mainstream state education for years, and I know all about school action, SAplus and statementing, and I also know it's not quite as you describe. Yes, outside agencies come in and make recommendations, but how those recommendations are put into place within the school is down to the school, and the quality of the help within the school (and sometimes even whether specialist help or a TA is needed) is of course down to the school and its employees. Have you seen the research that shows that when children are given hours of TA time this does NOT improve their outcome? What it does is improve the outcome of their non-SN classmates, presumably because the SN child gets less teacher time, and the non-SN kids get more. This is, I'm pretty sure, not what was intended, and not what I want for my child. Let me give you an example of what can happen. Last year the dyslexic child of a friend of mine was very unhappy at school. Refusing to read, hating school, had no confidence, convinced he was stupid. The solution? School Action etc, and time with a school counsellor to deal with his feelings, and some time with a TA. The result? No improvement. This year, he is lucky to have a really brilliant, inspirational teacher who engages the children. This boy is now ready and eager for school every morning, his confidence is blossoming, he really wants to read and and enjoying books. My son is in the same class. We were told he needed 1-1 TA time to prevent him being disruptive -ie to be a minder! The result? absolutely no progress academically for an entire year. Now, with a new teacher, he feels engaged, challenged, he no longer wanders round the classroom (the teacher gives him a science book to look at during restless periods such as register!) and he too loves school and is learning fast and is passionate about the work. Dyslexic kids need good quality literacy teaching from reception, not counsellors because they are discouraged. It is amazing the difference a good teacher can make.

[cory]

What is needed is clearly horses for courses, recognition that children have individual needs. One child's needs might be best met by better teaching, another child needs a specified adult to sit by her, another child needs a scribe, yet another child needs specialist counselling. Some children get the best help within the classroom, others need time out of it.

[Claw3]

Coldcomfort, the type and quality is only down to the school at school action. Then the help would be given by a untrained TA. Its the Governments fault that the TA isnt trained.

School Action+ this is when the type and quality is decided by outside agencies (OT, SALT etc, etc who work for the NHS) SALT for example will go into school once every 6 months and make recommendations. Then implementing the recommendations again would be by an untrained TA.

Statements, this is when the type and quality is decided by the Local Authority and written into a statement. The help again would be implemented by an untrained TA.

Teachers and TA's receive about ONE days worth of Special Education training ever. They are not speech and language therapists, they are not Occupational Therapists, they are not specialists.

NHS and Local Authority are government agencies, these people decide the type and quality of the help.

Lack of training is down to the Government.

If 1-5 children are on the SEN register, that is 6 per class. How can teachers be expected to cope with this, in a class of 30+ with inadequate training.

What is needed is more SEN training for teachers and TA's. Smaller classes. More specialist provision ie SALT, OT etc.

[ColdComfortFarm]

'learn to read, LOVE school, and gain confidence' - sorry.

[ColdComfortFarm]

Claw, I do get your point, but it's not true that if the provision is inadequate it is the fault of the government. The TYPE and QUALITY of the help is down to the school and the staff in it. A brilliant teacher can do a huge amount to help a near-school-phobic, depressed and demotivated dyslexic child learn to read, school and gain confidence in a general classroom setting (I'm seeing this right now with the son of a friend of mine) - much more than sending him off for 'chats' with a sympathetic but otherwise pretty hopeless counsellor-type person or giving him time out of the classroom with an unqualified TA. A bright but bored kid with Aspergers is likely to be unmanageable in a classroom where he or she is not sufficiently engaged and stretched, and a TA employed as a minder isn't going to help with that. My own child has been given utterly rubbish action plans, and they weren't drawn up by the government. I say pay teachers more, weed out the bored and inadequate ones, and reward the inspirational and innovative ones.

[Claw3]

Barmy, i think you will find that all cases receive minimal help, whether they are deserving or not. It has nothing to do with the less 'deserving' cases taking help away from the more 'deserving' cases. Children on SA and on SA+ often receive very little or no help at all. Even with a statement, the 'deserving' ones dont get much more. If the Government tightens its purse strings any more they will snap!

"Even for pupils at School Action Plus level and with statements, the provision was often not meeting their needs effectively, either because it was not appropriate or not of good quality or both"

The Local Authority sets out what provision is necessary and how and when it should be implemented. If provision is inadequate, its the fault of the Government and no one else.