Why do people have to be so nasty about H.E?

[lolapoppins]

Grrrrr. I need to rant. Thought I might find other people who understand where I am coming from in this topic

I have been in tears all afternoon after speaking with a relative on the phone. I have not spoken to her much over the past couple of years that ds has been home educated, and now I am wishing I hadn't spoke to her at all.

She was so negative about me homeschooling ds (nearly 7), to the point of being really nasty and agressive (but in an ever so sugery way ).

She has three children all around the same age as ds, who are all at school. She brought up every negative point about H.E, does he ever leave the house? Does he have any friends? I am sure you have all heard them before.

She was going on and on about all the school firends that her kids had at her house today, and did the other home ed kids we know live near us? Well, no, not really, but we are in a village in the middle of knowhere. No one but farmers live near us.

I was telling her about all the activities he does, the home school groups and activities and sports clubs he attends, what subjects I teach him and how, even how many times a week he sees other kids (she actually had the nerve to ask). But everything was met with a negative comment, and tales of how great her kids were doing at school.

What came aross most was the fact that she didn't think I was intelligent enough to teach my own child anything, and there were loads of comments about me being strange for liking him being with me all day, as she 'couldn't stand being with her kids all day'. Fair enough, but what has that got to do with me?

Then I got the old 'but of course you won't home educate at secondary level, will you' line. Who knows? I explained about all the home ed teenagers I have met, who are lovely, well educated, smart, confident people and she just laughed at me again. She kept telling me how great her kids school was, how fab the teachers were - that is great, I am happy for them. I have never said I am against schools, it just didn't work out for ds.

Since the begining of September, I have really got into the swing of home ed, ds is happy and is learning so much and enjoys what he is learning, but now I feel so low about it all again.

I feel even worse as it is ds' birthday next month and I have invited her and her family to his party. Most of the other kids coming areH.E'd and I don't want her giving thier parents, who I am trying to form friendships with, the third degree and making them feel uncomfortable in my home.

Over the past 18 months, I have worked really hard to find ds clubs and activities to be involved in, home ed groups etc, but now I feel really crap about everything. I have only really felt confident in what we are doing in these past few weeks, and now I am feeling so down again

[cornsilkwearscorsets]

I considered HE but we really couldn't afford it. I work with children one to one and see just how much children can learn when the teaching is directed at their own level. This woman is ignorant and probably a bit jealous. Ignore her.

[Sakura]

I think the reason people are nasty is because they are bigoted, which I think means that they attack the things they don't understand, or that are different.

I have to say, that reading these Home ed threads has been a real eye opener for me. I've had my doubts about it being a real choice for me personally, although I became fascinated by autonomous education (which I absolutely agree is the best way to learn); and of course I realise that teaching a child something can actually take away their enjoyment of a task.
But even bearing all this in mind I think I will still send my kids to school. The reason I think is because I am scared to take the risk, perhaps. And I want to have the free time to do my own things, which I will not get for another 15 years if I home ed. SO I think you can add "awe" and "jealousy" as more reasons why people attack home ed parents.

[SweetFanny]

It is annoying to get the cold shoulder from those you once considered friends, even if those relationships were a bit tentative. I am pro-choice when it comes to education (and parenting generally), and respect the decisions that all parents make on behalf of their children, but I am dead-set against the government and the national curriculum (just for being so damn narrow and inflexible). However, I do recognise that there are thousands of committed teachers in this country doing their best to work with awful rules.

I think you've done the right thing in withdrawing the invitation. You'll have a fabulous time without her. I bet you feel like an almighty weight has been lifted.

[2kidzandi]

Well you didn't put the frightners on her then But it is a slight shame. Possible when she saw the rather normal and even happy looking Home Ed children she might have actually learned something. Still, at least you had a great time.

People do sometimes automatically assume that because of your choice you now think you're somehow superior to them. I remember just mentioning to one parent who asked if my DS was sick, that I had decided to Home ed him for a little while (to make this a less difficult convo) because he just wasn't getting on at school.

Since then everytime I've bumped into her at the shops, or on the street, she goes out of her way to tell me that her son couldn't wait to start school, loves school, has a great teacher, is going on a fabulous class trip etc etc. I start off talking about the bus timetable and that's what it comes to without any initiating from me. I just agree with her and don't mention what we do at home etc. I'm not anti-school just more pro-choice. Still I really think she feels I disapprove of her choice and no amount of explaining from me makes any difference.

What has upset me slightly is the fact that now a few of the parents I used to happily chat with both at school and out of school seem to have given me the cool shoulder. Not cold - they still say hello if I'm directly in their way - but it's definately cooler.

One simply could not understand why I had withdrawn my eldest, kept insisting it "must be hard" "I wouldn't do it" and pointing out objections like; "but the boys in that year were all best friends" "He would have had Mrs B as his teacher this term, and she's really committed" and pointedly mentioning that "Well D slept over with G last night; they all really get on.... they were up to 3 in the morning having fun." And; "They really enjoy the after school club, they've linked it with the boys club now, yeah it's really great they have so many activities." before finally lamenting that "A is such a nice boy, it's a shame" as if I was traumatising him or something. Meanwhile I sat with clenched teeth whilst my children played thinkng my son used to be friendly with her boy (kknown each other since reception) and I don't want to stop that. So I'll be nice.

Couple of weeks after this I saw her on the street and she only said a cursory hello before walking off at fast pace ahead of me well, I thought, no loss! Still, why?

[lolapoppins]

Yes, she certainly is!

[OrmIrian]

lola - I am sure you didn't and she is probably just a loon.

[lolapoppins]

See - I don't know what is is with her. I have never even spoken about home ed with her before that phone call, and when I did I made it quite clear that I didn't have a problem with schools in general, just that school really (really, really!) did not work for my child so HE was the best thing for my family and our happiness. I never badmouthed the school system or anything like that at all. It is all very frustrating!

[OrmIrian]

What a shame

Don't worry about anyone else. If you feel the decision is the right one for your child it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

I suspect that some non HE-ers become defensive on occasions because quite often those who decide to do so are negative about the mainstream education system. And will often defend their choices by saying how awful it all is and how they couldn't wait to get their DC out. Which may well be understandable but it tends to be a bit upsetting/annoying for those still in the system.

[lolapoppins]

Thankyou Lisa.

That site is great!

I should have updated this thread. Anyway, they outcome is, she is no longer invited to the party. Actually, she was suppoed to say if she could make it or not, she never got back to me on it anyway.

As time went on, DH and decided it was not worth the hassle. We want to all enjoy ds birthday, and all have a fun weekend together as a family, and for him to have a lovely party with his freinds, not have a dark cloud hanging over our heads. My sister is quite a vile person actually, has a face like a slapped arse most of the time, always finds something to bitch about and the lead up to a visit always turns me into a moody, snappy cow tbh. I have decided not to ruin ds week before his birthday by having me snapping at him and dh becasue the thought of seeing someone her is making me feel down.

Anyway, I sent her an email the other day (first contact since the phonecall) saying that ds party was now going to be on the Friday, as he had something on that he really wanted to do for one of his activities on the weekend. To which I got the response "oh yeah, forgot it was his birthday that weekend. At least all of his friends are just sitting round all day and are able to come on a weekday - obviously mine will be in school where they should be". I did chuckle at that, I didn't expect anything less. I don't feel bad about her kids missing out - they wouldn't be able to pick out my ds from a line up, they've not seen him in almost two years, so I don't think they will be bothered, I don't even know if she will hae told them about it anyway, seeing as she had forgotten it was ds birthday.

Thank god she's not coming really, I would hate to think what she would have said to the other parents when she got going.

Still, I expect we will see her about some point before xmas. Dh has promised to say something if she starts, he saw how down that phone call with her made me, and he says he is fed up of it all and will take the lead if she acts like that when she visits.

[SweetFanny]

Perhaps you could try a thoroughly different tack with her. Here is what I would do, although I am exceptionally gobby and confident and I do respect the fact that you tend to crumble in the presence of this person, who seems to take great pleasure in playing on your insecurities (or misdirecting her own), and so you may not be able to be quite so bold, but here it is anyway. You could say something along the lines of...

Before I put the issue of my son's home-schooling to bed, I'd like to make it absolutely clear that it works for us. He is happy, he is learning. We are more than happy. You gave your views on home schooling, and it made me feel a little sad that you were prepared to be so nasty despite knowing so little about it. I'm glad your children are happy at school, but it doesn't work for everyone. If you have any issues that you'd like to talk to me about, and I suspect that my son's education is not really the real issue here, I am here for you. But how we choose to bring up our son is really none of your business. I wouldn't dream of interfering in the upbringing of your children and I ask that you afford me the same courtesy. Now, let's put this issue to bed and say no more about it...

If she keeps harping on, you could tell her that the invite to the party is revoked because all the other home ed mums, as much as they love to tear apart the ignorant, don't deserve to be accosted by such morons at a birthday party, and you'd rather your son's birthday wasn't ruined by her bile.

I've had some glorious conversations with a number of moronic beings over the past year. You could always tell her that if she has any genuine questions about home education she could address them to me. And I'll publish them here: 2cool4schoolmedway.co.uk/homeeducation_faq.html
I'm working on a new batch of daft questions now . I'm so evil.

I know it's easy for me to say, but please don't let her get to you. I see that you are essentially kind-natured and probably couldn't bring yourself to be as hateful back as she is to you. I think your only defence is to take the moral high ground without appearing to do so, i.e. showing compassion, while being firm about not discussing it further while she remains hostile about it.

God, I hope all that blathering made sense. It's been a long day. I have one who is semi-structured and one who is autonomous, so between random conversations about Egyptian queens actually being Greek and the mechanics of making a catapult/trebuchet out of lego and the brain-melting capabilities of algebra, I'm pooped.

Hope things work out for you. Lisa xo

[lolapoppins]

"She is the kind of person who reassures herself about her own parenting decisions by tearing to shreds anyone else's decisions which happen to differ from hers" ZZZenagain I think that is totally the problem.

She is very insecure, my dh says so all the time. I think she resents the fact that I just want to raise a family, I am not interrested in work, a career etc. We have dc of the same age, but there is a big age gap between us, I had ds at 22, she had hers in her late 30's and had a high flying career which she had to give up after dc 3 because of child care issues - that has always been an issue for her.

It is a complicated situation anyway. I didn't say in my OP, but this is my half sister. We shared a mother (who died when I was a child) but we never grew up together, she was 15 when I was born and lived with her dad, so she has always had her issues with me, and I guess that now we are both parents, they raise their ugly head for her. She has far more to dig at me about.

It is sad really, but I can see that all the venom she spits out toward me has been brewing for years. I have never had much to do with her, and I am realising why as the years go on.

[TemazePam]

Well if I'm honest the subject would never be up for discussion again with this woman if I were in your shoes

I would simply refuse to discuss anything regarding your children with her, AT ALL.

Take away the invite....say you've cancelled his party as he hasn't learnt enough Latin!!

I hope she's mortified by her children's behaviour when she stays with you hehehe

[ZZZenAgain]

I bet you aren't looking forward to her visit but you cannot let her ruin the birthday and get you down like this. You must write a few phrases down and have them handy near your phone or in your pocket. It's fine to discussi t with people who are genuinely interested in what you do, but she isn't.

I think frogs is right, it is not really about HE as such. She is the kind of person who reassures herself about her own parenting decisions by tearing to shreds anyone else's decisions which happen to differ from hers. By not sending your dc to school, you are indirectly criticising her decision to do so, therefore she must beat you done into silence to reassure herself that her decision is in fact correct (as who knows it may well be for her?). It would be the same if you were breastfeeding and she was using formula for instance. There is no point at all engaging with her, she is not interested in your point of view or whether it really works for your dc etc. She is wrapped up in herself and is an insecure mother - and tbh she also sounds like a rude cow but I suppose that is the dropped barriers of family ties. She probably wouldn't speak to someone outside the family in quite the same way.

I would practice just blocking it. I would try to be a bit more stern than you are naturally: "Yes, you've already given me your views on HE" and walk away. I would do that again and again till it sinks in - but be nice and friendly on any other subject.

[piscesmoon]

However upsetting it is I think you just have to be practical. She has set views-it doesn't matter what you say or do-she will stick to them. Therefore don't let her question you. There is no need to be rude or confrontational -just have a set phrase like -'it suits us' and change the subject.
(Every time-never vary).

[lolapoppins]

I am more peed off about it than anything this morning. You know what, my child is happy, and so are me and my husband and that's all that matters really, isn't it? I don't question her on the decisions she makes for her children, what right does she have to question mine? I think we have done a great job bringing him up so far, even if it has been a little differently to 'the norm'.

I was really only trying to expalin HE to her as she has all the ill concieved ideas about H.E that a lot of people who have never looked into it have. But you are all right, maybe I shouldn't try to expalin HE, I should just cut her off with a curt line about us all being very happy.

I was so upset, more than anything, as this is with someone who thinks they really 'know' me, despite only having seen me about five times since ds was born. She doesn't actually know me at all, I have aquantances at the garden centre who know me better.

I am not the most confident person at the best of times, and things like this can knock me for six.

Anyway, I going to unchain ds from his desk now as we are off to meet another HE family for Sunday lunch

Thanks LauraIngalls....I had meant to CAT you before, but I will do when I get home tonight.

[LauraIngallsWilder]

Sorry sorry lola just thinking now and remembering you are HEing in a structured way so perhaps you do think in terms of tutoring and teaching........ which is cool, we all have our own ways of doing things

And fwiw we do quite a bit of structured stuff as well! - we have only been officially been HEing for a month and I am already sick of peoples misconceptions! This weeks repeated phrase is "How is home tutoring going??????"
Going just fine thanks - bye now we off to a hockey match, with wooden sticks

Breezy confidence knocks them sideways because they are waiting for me to say "its terrible, I give up"

[LauraIngallsWilder]

Hi lola - I was thinking of you the other day, wondering how you and ds are getting along
Its great that the last month has been better for you - rubbish that your relative has been horrid and Im truly sad that you have been crying all afternoon - I have a neighbour that is just like her, rubbish isnt it
I would be happy to chat with you via msn or telephone about day to day HE or the bigger issues if you would like

I too have found that breezy confidence helps when people ask "So how is the home tutoring going?"
I say "Home EDUCATION is going really well thanks ds hasnt mentioned murdering anyone for ages now!"
Or "actually I dont feel the need to TUTOR my kids they are good at learning things naturally, I just join in conversations with them and we do fun stuff - no need to TEACH or TUTOR"

Funny HE videos to cheer you up
My favourite youtube video adams family

Actually this is my favourite too! Funny boys

12 days of homeschool

[ommmward]

"What do we do all day? Well, we... er... oh, hang on, got to go, he's just set fire to the cat again ha ha"

[put phone down]

[piscesmoon]

I would refuse to discuss it-it isn't any of her business. My brother and SIL HE their DCs, I think they would be better at school and when the 2 eldest went at GCSE stage they got on fine BUT it isn't my place to say so-I keep my views to myself.
I really don't think you ought to get drawn into a defensive position. Just say 'we are quite happy' and change the subject. If you sound like a broken record even the most thick skinned will get the message eventually. Never explain or justify-her mind is made up before you start.

[lolapoppins]

The woman in the vid looks as hacked off as I feel. She is very intense though, looks like she has had her fair share of hassle. DH was joking we should send it annonomously to put the frighteners on her!

[2kidzandi]

Oh no! I don't think she'd turn up! And you would regret THAT enormously....

[lolapoppins]

2kidzandi maybe I should send her the link to that

[2kidzandi]

Watch this Lolapoppins, it is slightly OTT but I find it provides some useful inspiration on what to say to the persistant put-downers

[slowreadingprogress]

Use the 'broken record' technique with her. Don't explain or justify just say something like "I'm sure your choices are best for your children, and my choice is best for mine" and just repeat this to every prying question. It's assertive, not rude, and it doesn't usually take long for even the most thick skinned idiot individual to get the message

You really don't have to justify what you do to her

I think it's such a shame that people use that line about 'oh I couldn't stand to be with my kids all day'. I don't HE my son, he goes to school but because I think it is best for him not because I don't want to spend time with him. It makes me cross - like it's "HE if you want to be with your child, send 'em to school if you want the little buggers out of your hair" - it's not one or the other!

[lolapoppins]

I know that I really need to not rise to things. I always want to scream 'why the hell do you care what I do?'. Maybe I should. It is just so hard when someone is on the phone/standing in front of you and relentlessly asking such direct questions. I need to grow a backbone with her. If it was dh speaking to me in that way, he'd be told to sod off. She isn't the kind of person who can be easily stopped with one line though, she will pry and pry.

Dh is fully onside though, and will be here when she comes to visit for the party. I have been speaking to him about it all eveing, he was out with ds while I was on the phone, and he's been muttering to himself all the things he will say to her if she questions him over ds like she did with me. He thinks she has issues with everything we do/have done as parents, not just the home ed, but that it is an easy handle. He is a lot more direct and sarcastic than I am, but funnily enough, she is not so nasty with him.

DH thinks she is just a really unhappy person in herself as she speaks in such a brisque, sarcastic way about everything.

I wish I hadn't invited her to ds' birthday now (they live across the country so will be staying the whole weekend - joy), but her dc are ds' cousins, and he has not seen them in almost two years.