So, should I answer or just do a 'water-off-a-ducks-back'?

[SueBaroastingOnAnOpenFire]

A family member is insisting we're damaging our children by not sending them to school.

Normally, their criticism just sort of flickers in the edges of my consciousness, but they're openly criticizing the whole situation in front of the children, and I spy a possible Christmas nightmare.

Should I say anything, or just maintain a slightly patronizing nodding, smiling, non-answer?

[SueBaroo]

Actually, I think there's a good case to be made from nature about the 'socialization' thing.

As human beings, we don't generally have litters of children. It's much more common for us to have singletons in succession. Socially speaking, therefore, it's much more natural for children to be in a mixed-age setting.

If I can get the kids to explain that, and use the word 'anthropology', I think that might be a winner

[SueBaroo]

I explain about my desperate struggles to find around thirty-five other 30 year olds to spend time with. My husband, being 38, my best friend, being 40, a number of 20 somethings and a very lovely 93 year old all seem to think I've managed to cope pretty well, so I'm confident that my children will cope too.

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

Oh but don't you then get "they are so sociable, they must be desperate to meet kids their own age, poor things?"

[ShrinkingVioLetterstoSanta]

no-one has ever DARED ask me the socialisation question as DDs 2 and 3 round up all available children and adults and "encourage" them into some so-complicated-you-don't-even-want-to-ask game involving random items lying around whcih lasts for hours and hours (to the relief of the non-HE-ing parents, and much smugness from me )

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

"so true CALM - i think there must have been an argument shortage in the '70s and this 'not listening' is a clever coping strategy to allow argument-recycling. if you only had enough coupons from the daily mail for one argument imagine how useful 'not listening' would be. in support of my thesis these are usually people who wrung out teabags to use again until 1988."

am utterly PMSL. Except that I think MIL may still be reusing tea bags. I know that everyone who goes to visit them is issued with a Cup, and that Cup must be used by them and only them until they depart. I am not sure what this achieves really, but it is bloody annoying when your Cup is in the wash.

lol at frog pond also emma

But, being 8 months pg and all, am increasingly inclining towards an "oh f off you rude eegits" type answer.

Am also really liking that everyone is calling me CALM now, its fabulous. I feel my blood pressure lowering every time.

[needmorecoffee]

turn it on them. 'Arent YOU worried about socialisation? After all, schoolkids only mix with same age peers, how on earth do they learn to get on with all ages and adults? Aren't you worried about the bullying and peer pressure hmm? hmmm?'
Candy, good book is John Taylor Gatto's 'Dumbing us Down'. Holt can be a bit heavy going but is very interesting.
I took my kids out of school when they were 8, 7 and 5 after reading Mike Fortune-Wood's HE site. I was back in the school by 10am with my re-reg letter. Told DH that evening....
First 2 weeks were scary and I'm ashamed to say I pushed the kids with tedious workbooks. After that we calmed down and I really enjoyed the HE years. Eldest returned to school, her choice and got on well socilally and academically (won a academic scolarship to a posh place) so she wasn't some sort of isolated freak. As it was her choice to return I made sure the school knew we were 'custromers' and not doing pointless busywork. She left after a year.
ds2 (12) has asked about trying some school. Its up to him but I'd rather his creativity wasn't squashed to be honest. They've done so well at home.

[emmaagain]

roffle.

Best reply I ever came across

"Are you worried about socialisation?"

"No. We thought we'd just tease him regularly and beat him up for his lunch money ourselves"

full thread here

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

oh lol emma, that is basically our approach. And to an extent, I really believe it. My mother is a one of those teachers who are sent in to troubleshoot failing schools. She feels so strongly pro HE that I think if I did decide to jack it all in and return to work, I suspect she'd move 200 miles and camp out in our spare room, just to keep the kids out of school.

But anyway, so this is my basic approach, and guess what they always say. Go on, guess...



































"But what about socialisation?"

Every single bloody time.

The real problem is that they are incapable of actually LISTENING to what people say, so we have the same conversation again and again. Fabulous advert for teachers/schools there

[emmaagain]

Charlie and Lola's Mummy -

I have teacher relatives. My strategy is to fall over backwards talking about what a marvellous job teachers do under such very very difficult circumstances, trying to cope with 30 children all interested in differnet things, and some being disruptive, and also trying to notice the motivated ones, and I just don't know how they manage, and it must be so HARD for the motivated children too, mustn't it, to be constantly interrupted by the bolshy ones and gosh, aren't we lucky to be able to home ed, so they'll get hte benefit of the one-on-one, and also be able to draw on the wonderful knowledge and skills of all the teacher relatives and blah blah

at the end of which the teacher relatives feel like military heroes, and well disposed towards explaining algebra to interested HE'd nephews. Or whatever.

I mean, really, there are lots of well motivated people in teaching, genuinely interested in children and in helping them learn, but the system is hardly conducive to it, is it? I often find a rant about the literacy and numeracy strategies, the key stage tests and the national curriculum goes a long way towards supporting one's heroic relatives in their impossible but noble task, also.

[Runnerbean]

I know a few families who have one in, one out, after all the point is that education should suit the individual child.
However, the down side to this could be:

a) You are tied to school times if you have to pick up and drop off.

b) You are restricted to school holidays and one of the biggest bonuses is being able to holiday when you want to, and when it's cheaper.

c) Home ed groups do tend to be quite anti-school and HE rs can be openly scathing, which might make it uncomfortable if you have another child in the system.

d)Children in school can be resentful of siblings at home who get more time with mum, (I have experience of this).

I have one at home and one at pre-school but it's only temporary until Easter when both dds will be at home full-time.

[cornsilk]

What about home educating one child and not the other? I am really tempted to HE my ds1 as I don't think he'll cope with the secondary very well.

[CharlieAndLolasMummy]

oh god I needed this thread BEFORE xmas, where did it go?

PIL just go ON and ON about this and it drives me up the wall. Every single night, as soon as the kids are in bed, they corner dp and shout at him about it, basically. Its horrible.

We are going on holiday with them next week and I am bloody dreading it.

I think the key here for me is

a. don't engage. I don't give a (&*^ any more if they approve.

b. recognise that this is very, very personal. They are both teachers, and partly feel that we are saying their Life's Work (ffs) has been in vain. They also feel that it is a criticism of their decision to send their kids to school (mind you, they feel this about pretty much everything we have done differently to them, which, given that they are of the "exercising their lungs" generation, represents quite a lot of stuff)

c. Insist that they don't raise it in front of the kids (they do, in addition to the stuff at night). And if they do, use julie's excellent strategy- "Uncle......... doesn't agree with our decision, but it isn't his to make thank goodness"

[Runnerbean]

John Holt published "How children Fail" and "How Children Learn" in the 60's, but the books are still very relevant today.
He is an American who I believe went into teaching and observed the damage that was done to children in the school 'system'.
They were a revelation to me and turned my idea of 'education' on it's head!
John Gatto's "Dumbing us Down' is on a similar theme and is also rcommended for potential HE'rs.

I will quote John Holt, (if i may?)

..."Only a few children in school ever become good at learning in the way we try to make them learn. Most of them get humiliated, frightened, and get discouraged.
They use their minds, not to learn, but to get out of doing things we tell them to do- to make them learn....
They make it possible for many children to get through their schooling even though they learn very little. But in the long run these strategies are self-limiting and self-defeating, and destroy both character and intelligence.The childre who use such strtegies are prevented by them from growing into more than limited versions of the human beings they might have become. This is the real failure that takes place in school; hardly any children escape"

"How Children Learn- John Holt"

[candypandy]

actually -- they do know the capital of Spain but not of course from skool

[candypandy]

who is john holt, by the way

[candypandy]

oh this is naughty, very naughty.. I'm getting very jittery and a bit excited.. you make it sound so easy..
I have to go for a bit but any other encouraging words, yes please. I'm sick of the amount of time my children spend doing pointless things and at the end of the day they don't even know the capital of Spain.

[emmaagain]

NC is a big factor for me. What a WASTE of time. Together with the homework. "Make Work" John Holt calls it.

DT: is that woodwork 'n' stuff? Find a friend who does carpentry. I'd use my friend Jim, he's amazing with making things in his shed. I'd take a cake, he'd do the woodwork. Bingo.

Chemistry, physics - lots of online ideas for experiments with equipment at home. At an advanced level, the foundation level OU courses are really good and designed for distance learners. I've known people who used private tutors, and the tutors provided any equipment needed. Lots of HEers pool resources too. And come on - we all know SOMEONE who is half reasonable at science who would probably love nothing more than to spend an afternoon with our children helping them understand why clouds stay up, or whatever the children are interested in today.

[needmorecoffee]

my older 3 are 15, 14 and 13. Eldest chose to go back to school (parties and suchlike I think) but I've had no trouble with HE'ing secondary stuff. We do maths and English workbooks, chemistry and physics, history and geography as and when. ds1 was doing an electronics course. Home education doesn't have to look like school either. We don't do DT (no idea what it is) and for a language we are all learning makaton and BSL.
They pretyy much do what they want and an hour a day easily covers what schoolkids spend 8 hours a day doing.

[emmaagain]

"Isn't that impossible?"

Nope!

It's not a once for all decision. You could keep them at home till 7 and ready to sit down for a large part of each day (don't know why all mothers of boisterous little boys don't do this...) or till they are 11 and ready for secondary school, or till 14 and just go to school for GCSEs, or 16 and just go for A levels.

Or just take it a term at a time, and somehow life has slipped past and they are going off to unviersity without, sonehow, ever having graced a classroom with their presence.

[candypandy]

ps that makes my children sound very bright. They're not, I just don't think the NC is enough for most children. Too much grinding, stultifying work without them actually learning all that much! But how could I do DT, chemistry, physics? How does that work?

[candypandy]

They SAY they'd love it but they have a very happy school life. But i'm not happy with the NC. It's just not enough for any of them. And too much time wasting and pointless homework. Do you do secondary?

[needmorecoffee]

not at all Candy. After all, you went to the marvellous school place and learned everything...
Most home educators do just fine at secondary level. The internet is wonderful and when it comes to GCSE's you can do corrospondance courses. Or not. Some Home edders skip GCSE's and do OU courses.
Up to 14 it really is easy peasy stuff and your main problem will be kids saying the NC is boring and want to learn things to a greater depth than is done at school. What do your kids want?

[candypandy]

Well primary i guess I could. But secondary? Exam level? Isn't that impossible?