Does anyone know what's happening with final year students?

[imsooverthisdrama]

So ds is in final year of a 3 year degree course . Me and dh have for a while not been convinced how much work ds has put in on his course .
Anyway lockdown happened and he says was working online so left him to it .
The last couple of weeks less and less work done till he finally admitted that recently he'd not done any work as was struggling.
I've sympathised as the situation is difficult for all but this is his final year !!.
Anyway after a talking too he said will contact uni and ask for extension but he said he's not heard anything yet.
I'm not sure what to think , will they allow this ? will they mark his work and get a degree ? I'm just so worried that ds has spent 3 years in education to not get a degree. He doesn't seam at all concerned but I am .

[seenbeensbean]

@titchy

All universities will have some sort of no detriment policy in place, and students WILL know about it.

That said, all the policies I'm aware of require the student to actually pass any remaining module component. So if he's done say an essay worth 50% of a module before covid, he has to take and pass the remaining post-covid 50%.

Not all of them do

[shockthemonkey]

Hi drama, have been in a very similar situation and in my case (but hopefully not yours!) my child left the uni with no degree.

He nonetheless did very well the following year and got an apprenticeship at one of the big 4 (accountancy firms) where he is happy and feels successful.

Two things I'd stress. First, in our case there was a major MH crisis going on and we decided, after advice, to concentrate on the MH and work hard at getting that under control.

Minor things such as degrees went by the wayside, and in retrospect I'm glad they did.

Whether or not there's an MH thing going in with your son, he will remember these days vividly and what will count is how supportive he feels you're being. That support may take the form of chivvying, it depends on so many things as to whether that's right.

I had a terrible MH crash at the same age and after thirty years still find it hard to accept how little my parents tried to understand or help.

[CatandtheFiddle]

Feed him, expect some basic housework and contribution to family life, and grit your teeth as you accept that this is his problem, not yours to solve

Speaking as an academic, that's sort of my advice as well. He needs to learn about consequences at some point, although I can understand the mix of frustration and concern you must feel (we often feel a professional, rather than maternal, version of that).

It's a big consequence though - not getting his full degree. But it's his degree.

What you could do is look at what qualification he'd receive if he doesn't complete his third/final year. There's a national framework of qualifications, and his degree will have accumulated a certain number of credit points.

The standard undergrad Honours degree (in England & Wales) is a total of 360 credit points, with some requirements for a certain number at each level, but most students do 120 credit points a year. So you could do a rough totting up - if he's not finishing his Spring Term (or 2nd semester) work, then maybe he's got 60 from 3rd year, plus 240 from 1st & 2nd years. Total 300 cp. I think (but you'd need to check) he could be awarded a Certificate of Higher Education. Maybe a Pass degree? (but that's a big maybe).

Then you could perhaps shock him with this?

Unless there are mitigating circumstances beyond the ones all students are experiencing, and for which most universities have instituted very generous mitigations, then it may be very difficult for him to get through without handing in the work in August. At my place, he'd have to repeat the whole 3rd year - it may be different where he's at.

But all of these degree and examination regulations are publicly available on university websites.

[BirdintheWings]

@imsooverthisdrama

Argh just had yet another row with ds again because he's hardly put any work in .
He's gone back to his part time job but just plays games when home or sleeps .
I honestly don't know what to do , when I ask what's happening with uni he just ignores me and then we row so he stomps off upstairs.
Wtf am I to do with him ?

Feed him, expect some basic housework and contribution to family life, and grit your teeth as you accept that this is his problem, not yours to solve.


Easier said than done. We have one in a similar-ish situation.

The sleeping- is that unusual for him, as it could be a sign of depression (or just of late nights)?

[Comefromaway]

At ds’s university (he’s a lecturer) most assignments were due in just before Easter so the students were just finishing off. Everything else had a no detriment policy.

[imsooverthisdrama]

Argh just had yet another row with ds again because he's hardly put any work in .
He's gone back to his part time job but just plays games when home or sleeps .
I honestly don't know what to do , when I ask what's happening with uni he just ignores me and then we row so he stomps off upstairs.
Wtf am I to do with him ?

[bottleofbeer]

No detriment is not equal at all unis. Mine only adopted a 'sort of' no detriment where only your lowest 20 credits from semester 2 will be dropped. Many unis have a total no detriment policy where any grades apart from any dissertation cannot lower your average as it stood when unis closed. I would have a guaranteed first class had our uni done the same. The irony is that in both 20 credit modules, teaching had entirely stopped for the second half the the weighed module so we are being held in at least one module to the same standard we would have been had teaching carries on as normal.

They are however going to consider grades ending in 8 and well as 9 for an upgrade. This is also a load of bull though because the only consideration they will use is if most L6 credits were over 70. Unlikely for most since we had next to no teaching in two modules.

Our no detriment has almost certainly robbed me of a first. My average in March when other unis would disregard anything after was 76, my dissertation was 68.

This one grade they will be counting is highly likely to keep me just under the 70 threshold due to absolutely no teaching on this, more heavily weighted assignment.

[imsooverthisdrama]

Thanks @CatandtheFiddle
Yeah hopefully he will learn from this.

[CatandtheFiddle]

That's really good to hear, OP - we know that students have struggled. If he does a bit of work everyday, he'll catch up, and not have to do a terrible cram in August.

[imsooverthisdrama]

Hi thanks for the posts,
No not reading university it's in the North .
He's been in touch with uni and explained that he's struggled with lockdown etc . He is now waiting for permission to re sit the module in August so should hear this week.
At least he can re sit the work missed and get a grade .
As long as work is put in I'm happy , but we've had a good chat and he's feeling much better and motivated.
His part time job has reopened so he's gone back to work too so at least he's getting out of the house now too .

[AwwDontGo]

It’s good that the Unis have a no detriment policy - it must be very hard to keep motivated at home for a lot of students.

[MarchingFrogs]

means no funding left for a masters

If you mean a separate MSc / MA, the funding for that is a completely separate (and not means tested) loan, of about £11000 for 2020/21. If an integrated masters, assuming that this is the course for which the student is currently funded, then one repeat year would be covered (unless, as you say, they had already used up the 'gift' year with previous study, but even then, a repeat year should be funded if the student can prove compelling personal circumstances as the reason for needing to repeat).

The number of years that you can get a Tuition Fee Loan for is normally calculated as:

length of current course + one year – years of previous study

Even if you only attended your course for a short time, it will still count as a year of previous study.
www.ucas.com/finance/student-finance-england/going-back-uni-or-repeating-year

[Xenia]

Allthe - I hope you can sort it out. It sounds like you have a chance to hand in the final stuff in the Autumn instead and it will be okay.

[AlltheRs]

BTW I've been highly self motivated with solid 100% attendance.
Being removed from university and the energy of being around other learners and thrust backwards into what I came from, left me feeling 'axed' and now very detached, and as if everything I've done has just evaporated and I have nothing of value to present.

If it's had that effect on me I'm not suprised if many younger students are struggling. Just a thought.

[AlltheRs]

Most (if not all?) uni's have a no detriment policy running during the pandemic. If he's got into problems the best thing he can do is talk to them.
They are aware that lots of students may have difficulties trying to complete their work remotely for all sorts of reasons. I've deferred my final hand ins to the autumn exam board in the hope of still pulling it together. (I could see I didn't stand a chance with having to scrabble for survival to keep the roof over our heads, food on the table, look after dependents, and many other issues)
IME generally you can only defer if you apply to do so before teaching formally finishes, but they might just be handling things differently in the current circumstances.
If it came to it, if he hasn't had a foundation year, he could resit his third year using up the last bit of student funding he's entitled to (means no funding left for a masters)
There will be a progressions team at his uni who can tell him what options he has. He needs to talk to them and his tutors. No one can help students who don't ask for help.

[mumsiedarlingrevolta]

DS at a RG Uni
Just completed his last final today

Newcastle has a "safety net" as he calls it but he is unsure how he will be graded because as part of his degree there is an external accreditation that he gets along side his degree- for example he will be certified as an accountant by National Association of Accountants as well as his degree. (obviously it's not that but couldn't think of an example)

So lots of different scenarios at play-think you really need to try and get to the bottom of what your DS actually knows- it has been a difficult year with the strikes and the pandemic!!
but he needs to figure out where he stands now and how to go forward-what does he actually want?

[titchy]

All of them? I didn't think Reading did,

This is Reading's:
https://student.reading.ac.uk/essentials/_support-and-wellbeing/medical-and-general-health/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-and-support/exams-guidance/safety-net-and-extenuating-circumstances.aspx

[titchy]

Ok but they can't just not bother with the final assessment thinking they'll keep the mark for the pre-covid essay.

[puffinandkoala]

All universities will have some sort of no detriment policy in place, and students WILL know about it

All of them? I didn't think Reading did, for example? Hopefully the OP's son isn't there.

[FrenchSeal]

@titchy

DS is at a Russell Group university and they have been very clear that so long as students submit something for their remaining assessments, the no detriment policy will apply. There is no requirement to pass them.

[titchy]

Did he pass his first and second years? If he did and has indeed failed his third year he has a couple of options. Either ask if he can leave with an exit award to recognise the first two years (a Diploma of Higher Education), or he can repeat his final year. I'd only recommend the latter if he is prepared to sort out the issues that brought him to this situation in the first place though.

HTH

[titchy]

All universities will have some sort of no detriment policy in place, and students WILL know about it.

That said, all the policies I'm aware of require the student to actually pass any remaining module component. So if he's done say an essay worth 50% of a module before covid, he has to take and pass the remaining post-covid 50%.

[FrenchSeal]

The issue you have is that the uni is under no obligation to tell you as the parent anything at all- indeed they legally can't due to data protection.

I know at DS1's uni, they have a no detriment policy. This means that the assessments they submit now cannot lower their average- so if they were sitting on a 2:1 prior, that is the least they can get. Indeed, if they've already done substantial coursework for a particular module, that can't come down either.

This all depends though on them actually submitting something for all of their assessments. The uni have been clear that any student who does not submit anything will likely not be able to take advantage of the no detriment policy and will be dealt with on an individual basis.

[Xenia]

He is probably pulling the wool over your eyes or is being wilfully blind. First of all go on his university's website as you can probably see loads of things about all this on there and then ask him about that.

He can also order on line a marks transcript for no charge - my son needed one for his post grad application and it was easy to get which will show the marks in every paper over the whole period.

Thirdly he will have emails he could forward to you from the university about what is happening. Eg my twins (also final year) had clear emails with deadlines for dissertations etc - the last of the 2 submitted his dissertation today and just has one essay exam left later this month. Most will have , as said above, some system whereby marks so far are "banked" and will not worsen although in the case of my twins if their dissertations are poor they could have their overall marks pulled down.

Your son sounds a bit like mine (who got a third). It was only when letters started coming to our house and he told me his problems and he asked me to go on the university system for him (some years ago) and check all his deadlines and email him with details (not something I would ever of course have done for any of my 5 children except in this exceptional case and only at his request) that it was "okay" although even then he got a third, nothing like what he should have achieved, but at least he got his BA.

[imsooverthisdrama]

Thanks @CatandtheFiddle I've had a look this afternoon .
I'm worried that he's given up because he's failed , I can't get anything out of him .
I just hope he's being honest .
What a waste if he's failed .
I'm being a worried mum but thanks for posting .