Is BEng with OU well thought of?

[paininthepoinsettia]

I don't mean is OU in general well thought of, but the BEng in particular. Have been looking into this and compared to red brick unis that run labs for engineering I'm wondering if it is regarded as equal. I think some of the OU modules have summer schools but they are only 1 week long so you wouldn't get the same experience I think? I'm wondering all things considered are they equal?

[BubblesBuddy]

That’s true Phphion. However I’ve been clear that it’s best for engineers to know they want to be engineers before they start by showing en interest in some area of the huge subject. I gave lots of examples as to how the dc might follow this up. As have others. I would suggest that if he hasn’t anything to put on his PS, he doesn’t really want to be an engineer. So yes, go to the best university you can!

[Phphion]

There are some excellent engineering courses with outstanding reputations at the former polytechnics.

However, if the OP's DS is uncertain about engineering and may want to cash in after three years and use his degree just as a degree to get a non-engineering graduate job, he may be better advised to look at the universities that offer the most general prestige, rather than specific prestige in engineering.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Some polys have a longish tradition in engineering

Very long in some cases ... the 'technic' part of their name was the main focus.

[BubblesBuddy]

Some of the ex polys have brilliant engineering courses. It’s not a case that RG is always best. It very much depends on individual course and what the student wants to do afterwards. Some polys have a longish tradition in engineering and have excellent links with employers. Their year in industry options also can be first class. So don’t ignore ex polys. Look carefully at employment stats, destinations, links with industry and MEng possibilities.

[Canyousewcushions]

Ok, sorry, not a red brick uni. I meant a traditional uni with a good reputation as opposed to a more modern uni which would have been a polytechnic or a college 25 years ago and accepts lower a-level grades for admission.

That said it is worth looking at league tables and employability and take that into consideration in your choice as there may be some surprises. The most important thing for engineering is making sure the course is accredited with its relevant institution to get professionally qualified afterwards. I've met a few people who had come from newer universities who found chartership quite a painful process, though more of those unis are accredited now than were in my cohort's time.

[BubblesBuddy]

The big danger with general engineering is that you have to make a decision and become a student member of an institution at some point if you wish to be an engineer. You cannot be a jack of all trades and master of none because many employers want certain disciplines. There has to be a decision made at some point or what work experience or jobs will the student go for?

[BubblesBuddy]

I have just had a quick look at Sheffield university which is always well regarded for Engineering. They do General Engineering MEng and want A*AA. This is higher than their other MEng courses and you don’t have to specialise in Y3 and Y4 if you don’t wish to. However if you don’t think you will get those grades there is plenty more choice!

[ErrolTheDragon]

'Redbrick' is a specific set of older unis dating from the end of the 19th/start of 20th century (or which Birmingham is probably the most literal example) - I was thinking more of some of the others outside of this group eg Bath, Surrey, Loughborough.

[hellsbells99]

MarchingFrogs I am sure many students do decide to opt for unis like Birmingham rather than Oxbridge for engineering depending on what discipline they want to study

[hellsbells99]

At most universities, the first 2 years of both the BEng and the MEng is the same course - irrelevant of which one you selected initially. Towards the end of the 2nd year of study, you then get the choice to move between the two or if your results are not good enough, you get moved to the BEng. Obviously this differs slightly depending on whether you are opting to do a placement year and which year you do the placement year. Some students opting to do the BEng will have good results but have decided they don’t want to be an engineer - e.g. they have decided to apply for finance and banking jobs instead.

[MarchingFrogs]

There are lots of unis with good engineering degrees, redbrick and otherwise

Well yes - I'm sure that no-one would turn down a Cambridge offer, say, for Birmingham (the original 'red brick' university)? I sort of assumed , though, that the intended meaning was 'brick' university- i.e. one with a physical entity that you attend, rather than the 'virtual' experience of the OU?

[ErrolTheDragon]

Much better if possible to go to a red brick uni and do an MEng degree.

There are lots of unis with good engineering degrees, redbrick and otherwise. Obviously the predicted A level grades and subjects will be relevant to deciding which to aim for.

[ErrolTheDragon]

There seem to be more unis offering a general first year and then specialising than there were just a few years ago when DD was going through the process (she's a 3rd year MEng student now) - so those may be ideal of your DS. At the time she came to the conclusion - which may or may not be correct! - that the only general engineering degree which would allow for sufficient specialism by the end (because of its workload and pace) was Cambridge. All her other applications were for Electrical & electronic eng.
Note that some of the more esoteric engineering options get chosen after starting on a more general field such as EEE, which may have a common first year and then they can choose more and more specialised options in subsequent years.

I think PP who've suggested that the OU degree may be best suited to people who are already engaged in engineering rather than typical post-a level freshers may be right. Whichever route he takes, getting practical experience via proper internships is pretty vital for engineers.

In normal times, going round open days to get a feel for the different departments would be helpful - he should look to see if there are online 'virtual open days'.

[Canyousewcushions]

I think Warwick uni also used to do similar to Birmingham; a generic first year for multiple engineering disciplines so there was the chance to move between them before the start of second year.

As a school leavers I'd avoid the OU and a generic BEng course. As PP said, these will really be aimed at mature students with industry experience who need a qualification to progress.

Achieving charteeship is simplest for those with an MEng or accredited MSC. Getting to a CEng qualification from a BEng is much harder work, and even more so if the BEng is not accredited by the specific institution he wants to join.

Much better if possible to go to a red brick uni and do an MEng degree.

[BubblesBuddy]

BEng degrees normally let students transfer to MEng after year 1 if they are good enough. It’s mostly the real strugglers who go from MEng to BEng. That’s not desirable and often leads to a poor degree classification.

[paininthepoinsettia]

Thank you all for the advice, very much appreciated.

[Phphion]

Lots of universities have a general engineering first year and allow you to transfer to all or some of their specialist degrees for year 2 onwards. Some also allow you to transfer between specialist degrees at the end of year 1. The courses are still the same length.

He really needs to do some research. Engineering is a demanding degree and if he isn't even interested enough to research his options now, he may find it hard going.

[Phphion]

Generally, if you start on an MEng, you can decide after the 2nd year that you would rather finish in three years with a BEng instead. That is easier than trying to add on a Masters to a degree that was only designed to lead to a BEng.

I think for course like engineering, the OU is good for people who already have a lot of technical experience (like Lonecatwithkitten's DP) and who are looking to credentialise or, sometimes, specialise. I don't think it is such a good idea for someone with little to no hands on experience because they won't get so much of it at the OU.

[BubblesBuddy]

MEng is 4 years. BEng with a year in industry is 4 years. MEng is the way forward if you have the right A level predictions. Some courses do have general principles in the first year but others don’t . It’s quicker by and large to know what you want and go for it!

[BubblesBuddy]

It is equivalent to a technician engineer but it’s now a fully recognised qualification. There is an Eng Tech is a qualification too.

It can take a long time to work up to CEng if you don’t have the right degree because a post BEng qualification is necessary. You have to view it as a two tier profession with regard to being chartered or incorporated.

The Engineering Council spells it out for you. See a snapshot attached.

With regard to which discipline, he should by now have done some research. What makes him interested in engineering? Look at the web sites if the different institutions. Ask him: what does he think an engineer does? What does he enjoy doing that relates to engineering? Is he interested in the environment, buildings. Roads and bridges, materials and chemicals, electricity? So many things. He needs to be aware of the opportunities and then see if they excite him. I think no idea at all isn’t showing much research. Can he phone up any local engineers to chat? They might not have offices open but someone should answer an email. He really must do some research.

[Decorhate]

I don’t think the Birmingham degree is necessarily a year longer. Ds had an offer from there but did not like the fact the first year is general & then you specialise. He knew what he wanted so felt he’d rather specialise straight away. But I think it was no longer than doing the equivalent degree elsewhere.

Regarding the incorporated engineer status, I think this is basically equivalent to a technician in my day, back then they would have had a HNC or HND & maybe did that on day release initially.

[ChippyMinton]

Student finance covers the MEng degrees.

[paininthepoinsettia]

Many thanks for the responses, they are all very helpful. This is for DS, Y12 who was supposed to have his personal statement handed in 2 weeks ago but still doesn't know what he wants to do He thinks some type of engineering, but isn't sure. I was thinking rather than spend a lot of money on a degree that your heart isn't in that he could start the OU degree and work or whatever else at the same time until he was clearer. He probably isn't very keen on that option anyway.

University of Birmingham does a BEng (general) that you choose which branch you want to go into in the 2nd year, the website isn't very clear however, it says to contact the school for more advice. I'm just thinking if that requires an extra year will SF cover it?

@BubblesBuddy, what is the process to go from Incorporated to Chartered? Is it exams or further study? Do all BEng degrees just lead to Incorporated now?

[BubblesBuddy]

Yes, look at the apprentice route but many of these degrees are BEng, take forever part time and then you can become Incorporated. It will take a lot longer to be Chartered. How much time do you have?

[BubblesBuddy]

BEng degrees now lead to Incorporated Engineer status. That’s still a qualified engineer but below Chartered status. You do not have to be Chartered but many companies pay more for Chartered engineers for obvious reasons. It’s by no means standard that all companies expect it though. Some prefer experience and don’t support grads via the Chartered CPD.

It’s vital to look at the Engineering Council before embarking on this degree. It looks very limited to mechanical engineering. It appears you must do a particular pathway to ensure the degree is accepted too. In my view, that’s risky. You then need to top up with a separate masters for CEng fast track. BEng holders can get Chartered but it’s slower.

So, go the traditional route if you can. Do MEng if you can. Always check the course is accredited and does what you want with the Engineering Council. Think about which branch of engineering before you start. In the end you cannot swap from Civils to Mechanical for example. The best degrees for most people are where you start knowing what outcome you want. This is why so few degrees are general and real engineers value the in depth knowledge of their discipline. So do Engineering employers . Check all the branches of engineering and which one is best for your interests.

My view is to avoid OU. It cannot have the dread that or depth you need unless you are working at the same time.