Bristol or Manchester for MChem

[ShriekingBansheela]

The 4 year course with a year in industry?

Bristol seems a more expensive place to live, and travel to (and trains more expensive from out Midland home) and we have heard reports that the pastoral environment is not that great? How multicultural is it?

In the other hand as a Uni it has a great reputation. Dc prefers Bristol as a city.

Any difference in the way they support the placement?

This is for an academically and socially robust Dc, mixed race, will be on full loan as we are lowish income.

All views and experience welcome. Thank you!

[Comefromaway]

Huddersfield? Why?

Because it has an excellent reputation for music. 25th in the World in the QS rankings.

Cost of living has to be a factor for many families.

[BubblesBuddy]

I don’t agree that it has to be. It is cosier and easier to live at home but it definitely isn’t better if the local university is mediocre. It’s still an expensive option to get a degree and if that doesn’t take you to where you want to be or if you could have aimed a lot higher, is it money well spent?

Families have known for years about helping DC and parental contributions are not new! I was the Principal Officer in a department when local authorities ran the university finance. Parents contributed. Most parents wanted the best for their DC, not what was best for their bank account.

The loans can cover the cost of university accommodation. A bit of work can help out. It’s not impossible to live on the loans and parents should cough up - they have always had to! Otherwise what is the point of widening access and all the effort to get less well off DC into the best universities? It’s a waste of time and money if they just stay at home.

[BubblesBuddy]

Not Chemistry, so apologies! But Huddersfield is 32nd for Music in the Complete University Guide. I would say this is more reliable.

[Comefromaway]

Even back when I was at uni and it was still a poly Huddersfield was seen as being only a small step below conservatoire training.

But that’s bybthe by. At ds’s school there are parents who can’t even afford to send their children to the local college offering a wider range of subjects because of the bus fayre. Making any kind of contribution is impossible no matter how many years you have to prepare.

A student getting the full maintenance loan will find their money goes a lot further in the north.

[BackforGood]

Huddersfield? Why? I really do think costs of living should be factored out when making choices.
Seriously @BubblesBuddy ??
Is it beyond your imagination to understand that cost of living can be a huge factor in deciding where you study and live ??

The loans can cover the cost of university accommodation.

They rarely do - just read through all the threads on here on here in Higher Education

A student getting the full maintenance loan will find their money goes a lot further in the north.
This ^. Or, indeed, all the students who get the minimum loan.

[timetest]

My daughter recently graduated from Bristol. She had a great time and loved the city. Bristol is certainly multicultural though I don’t know how well the university reflects this. It is an expensive city to rent in and my DD and all her flatmates had part time jobs to help with costs.

[BubblesBuddy]

I truly don’t believe finance should not be an issue outside London. There are cheaper halls if students look and as timetest says, jobs are available. Choose the best university you can get to and if that’s Oxbridge - do it!!! If students don’t want cheap halls that’s another matter but sharing helps and sharing a bathroom. No wonder the north/south divide happens. And most working parents can afford something. Non working parents get lots of help for DC.

Huddersfield isn’t that great for music now! 32nd clearly says that. However it is great for music related degrees. There are gifted musicians on nearly every decent music degree. That’s why they chose it. However the RCM and others are higher regarded.

[BubblesBuddy]

Bristol is cheap enough if you don’t rent near the university. Try St Paul’s. Or other multi cultural areas for cheaper rents.

[Comefromaway]

RCM is not that much higher on the league table you referenced which is absurd.

Dh is a professional musician. We are still in the loop as to reputation.

[Comefromaway]

My son has asd. Sharing won’t be an option. Many parents of kids at his school don’t have the means to even pay for open days/interviews/travel at the start and end of term.

[EwwSprouts]

Many parents of kids at his school don’t have the means to even pay for open days/interviews/travel at the start and end of term. This is a barrier but many universities will pay travel to open days & some provide free overnight room the night before. Contact the outreach teams.

[BubblesBuddy]

It’s not helpful to throw on Sen at the last minute as to why someone cannot share. Schools should use pp money to help with university trips. Interviews are relatively rare at university except for certain courses. Why don’t people say they don’t have the money and apply to get some help instead of not bothering?

Music is also academic to some extent and that’s why Oxford is considered top. Performing and music tech are different and are offered at different establishments. The poster said Music. The tables refer to Music. Not performance or tech.

[Comefromaway]

Pp money at ds's school is used for a variety of things that help all children (they publish a comprehensive list on their website) but there is no way they could afford to subsidise university open day travel.

Oxford is not considered top for music, its high but nowhere near top.

But on this thread its about science subjects. The sceintists at ds's school will have different considerations, however finances are a major part of it. (And this is the kids that are actually allowed to apply at all).

[Comefromaway]

Actually does Pupil Premium even cover 6th forms? I thought it stopped at 16.

[BubblesBuddy]

They can go and visit in y11 and lots of schools do this. It’s all about aiming high and the government says bright PP DC are at great risk of under achieving. Visiting universities is a great way of ensuring DC keep focussed and aim high. It’s what the funding is for. There are also hardship bursaries for 16-19.

Attached are music rankings. Complete university guide which a lot of people think is reliable.

[EwwSprouts]

Pp money at ds's school is used for a variety of things that help all children (they publish a comprehensive list on their website) but there is no way they could afford to subsidise university open day travel.

I wasn't referring to pupil premium.
"If you've travelled over 70 miles, you can stay overnight in our accommodation for free. You can book up to a maximum of four rooms for you and your guests." www.hull.ac.uk/choose-hull/study-at-hull/visit-us/open-days

[Comefromaway]

You weren’t eew - it was bubbles who said that.

It’s great that some universities are doing those things though I suspect Hull wouldn’t fulfil bubbles criteria of what is a prestigious course.

I prefer to look at a wider picture and find the times & QS rankings much more accurate.

[EwwSprouts]

Sorry wrong end of stick.
With Hull it's very much dependent on the course. The Olympics official partnership is great for the sports scientists and the national flood resilience work impressive.
www.hull.ac.uk/work-with-us/research/institutes/energy-and-environment-institute/our-work/ark
www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1074797/british-olympic-association-sign-six-year-partnership-with-university-of-hull

[Comefromaway]

I totally agree ewww.

[BubblesBuddy]

I am particularly looking at aiming very high. However I’m delighted that Hull is proactive. I think other universities are too. It’s a shame when people just don’t bother to look and schools don’t bother to give info to parents and DC either.

Yes, they could use PP money on their brightest DC who are PP to help with widening access to the best universities. They just need to bother! After all, these DC are not behind so “closing the gap” isn’t so relevant. Exploring where they could, and should, go to university is highly relevant and elevates the higher education of DC above “good enough is good enough”.

[crazycrofter]

It’s not just about university accommodation though, it’s local accommodation for years 2 and 3. And it’s about travel to and from home.

We’re not low income and dd is only year 11, but I’ve already decided we’d better go round Durham and Newcastle when we’re on holiday in Northumberland this summer as they’re not doable in a day from the midlands and we really couldn’t afford overnight stays on top of train fares/petrol. If she did end up going that far for uni, she’d have to accept she wouldn’t come home much - but there would still be potentially 6 journeys there and back with all her belongings in year 1 - unless they allow you to leave your stuff in halls these days?

We are on a reasonable income compared to some - we wouldn’t get full maintenance loan but we’d get above the minimum. However we don’t have ‘spare’ money at the moment and we only go on one UK holiday a year, plus the kids do camps. Factoring in overnight open day stays would actually be outside our budget. Therefore I’m sure theres lots of people like us.

Our parents (middle class, educated) said we could only consider unis in a 2 hour radius and I think that was sensible. For most people there are enough decent universities nearer home that’s it’s not worth the extra cost. Is it really worth struggling financially to achieve Bristol instead of Manchester??

[BackforGood]

Thing is Bubbles you seem to only think that people on very low incomes are on a budget ?
Most of the people I know don't qualify for pupil Premium and don't qualify for a full loan. We aren't 'high earners', neither pay higher rate tax, I work part time, but both work in professional jobs. Most of our friends are in the same boat - comfortable enough, not here to complain, but is does make a difference when you have to start paying out to support your dc at University.
More so, of course if you have 2 or more to support at the same time.

More and more, there aren't the 'cheaper options' of university accommodation of my youth. Much of it has been privatised and the price has gone up hugely, along with the 'standards' of accommodation. Then, as pp says, it is about the price of renting a shared house in Yrs 2 and 3 (or more, where applicable).
When my niece started at Liverpool just 4 yrs ago, she was very impressed that you could get a taxi anywhere for £3. Things like that start to add up. Because of where he was, my ds could get a megabus home for about £3 (against about £50 - with railcard for my dd to get home from her accommodation). Things like that start to add up.

Of course huge numbers of ordinary families have to take into account the cost of living when thinking about Universities. Hopefully not to the extent of choosing the lowest ranking 'new' university over a league topping course, but certainly when you are doing a course that is offered in many, many institutions, it is something you would factor in.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Complete university guide which a lot of people think is reliable.

Some of its positions for chemistry look way off base.

Is it really worth struggling financially to achieve Bristol instead of Manchester??

By many metrics, and depending on subject, it would be Manchester which was more of an 'achievement', and in many they're level pegging.

Many of DDs friends (we're in the north west) simply didn't bother looking at anywhere south of the midlands - why should they, with so many excellent choices in the north and Scotland?

[BubblesBuddy]

I certainly do understand people struggle who are working. However I also know they visit universities instead of a holiday that year. In fact DC go with other DCs and parents don’t go at all to save money. They cut family costs in subsequent years to help DC go to the best university they can. Don’t change cars or put off doing up the house and have few meals out.

If you read anything about DC from lower achieving schools it’s that the local university is frequently seen as good enough. Purely on financial grounds. There is no attempt by anyone to say that DC should aim higher. I think that’s wrong.

Universities do have cheaper accommodation, usually. Obviously I have not checked all of them. There isn’t a need for DC to use private halls at most universities. We tended to think they were used by rich overseas students. It’s not obligatory to have en suite bathrooms. I agree a lot of accommodation has been modernised but costs don’t have to be huge in y1. Neither do they have to be in y2/3. There are always cheaper areas. Always. Many students have a bike and cycle in from areas slightly further away. I know lots of people whose DC have had to go into the cheapest accommodation but they still go to the universities that are best and not the ones down the road that are not suitable.

[BubblesBuddy]

But the best universities for a particular subject are not necessarily in the north. That’s like saying I don’t want to go abroad. You should look at everywhere that’s good. Branch out a bit. My DDs best friend at Bristol came from Liverpool and her Dad was in prison. It broadens ones life experience to move away. Neither do students have to keep coming home all the time. Off peak travel and coaches are not that expensive. Also, shock horror, students can have jobs! They can even save up before they go if they can get a job.