Life after oxbridge

[littleslummygirl]

As the dust settles after a No this week.
Am thinking I was rather more invested in Cambridge than I admitted. Equally, feeling relieved that DD doesn’t have to aim for an A+ In any subject so a little bit of pressure off.
Question now is whether DD asks for feedback.
And what advice for those who are looking ahead for next year.
My thoughts at the moment are that she would have regretted not trying. It was important for her to try as she was definitely a bit left field as a candidate and working for it made her hugely up her game academically But wow, the highs and lows are a real rollercoaster.

[Decorhate]

Gah. Should have previewed @Coleoptera and “advice”

[BubblesBuddy]

I really would be careful about going for Ancient history without even a GCSE in a language. Latin and Greek would be great of course but, if no MFL or ancient languages, Ancient History at a top university is a slog.

There seem to be people that are over invested in Oxbridge and Durham. Durham might also think it’s a slog without MFL. They do offer catch up in the ancient languages but if you are doing that with no MFL or language interest, it’s very hard. That won’t change post A level. Oxford do look at GCSEs. Their admissions info says they do. Roughly 1:5 get an offer so there are very many rejections.

[Jano69]

@CBear99 I remember your story well from last year's threads and constantly remind DD (currently Y12) about such injustices. I'm so pleased your DD is enjoying Exeter, we loved it when we visited it last year. Y13 can be such a traumatic year...

[MidLifeCrisis007]

I wonder when the smart brains within the Oxford University applications department will wake up to the fact that the real problem with their admissions procedure isn't BME and private/state school imbalances but the fact that their course capacities doesn't reflect the demand of their applicants!

I've seen lots written about the former in the press this week but nothing at all on the latter. I've only seen the 2018 data but find it bizarre that Oxford gave just 41 Computer Science offers, 102 E&M offers and 164 Medicine offers from 3708 applications last year. Meanwhile, it gave 128 Classics and 94 Music offers from just 512 applications. It's time the university focused on aligning itself to the demands of its potential students rather than playing at being politically correct. The less than 10% offer rate for Medicine, Computer Science and E&M is totally unacceptable.

The data is here. public.tableau.com/profile/sdma.oxford.university#!/vizhome/UniversityofOxford-AdmissionsStatistics2018ByCourse/Applications

[NotEnoughTime]

How is your DD now littleslummygirl and you too, of course?

[MarchingFrogs]

Medical school numbers (overall) are regulated, though? A university can't just unilaterally decide to offer more places for Medicine, however high the demand for its particular medical school. Or perhaps there could be a trade-off and somewhere less prestigious - Hull York? the recently set up course at ARU (I'm sure no one really wants to be a medical student in Chelmsford fgs)? - could be persuaded to drop its numbers to compensate?

[strawberrieshortcake]

I’m genuinely confused about how easy some people on here think it is to increase the amount of spaces the university offers?

What about increased accommodation needed, increased staff needed, library facilities needed, labs needed, tutors needed etc. Etc.

They are slowly increasing capacity but surely you understand it can’t be done in the drop of a hat?

[MidLifeCrisis007]

There are 3 times more places for classics than computer science. It's 2020! Johnson is promising us more doctors. Where will they come from? It's stupidly competitive to get on the most commercial courses like E&M. I'd personally reallocate a few places from elsewhere if I was chancellor!

[ErrolTheDragon]

It would be a big problem if the U.K. didn't have other excellent universities offering comp sci etc. (med schools are a bit of a special case, with oxbridge apparently not generally being viewed as preferable to some of the others, and numbers have been increased in the last few years across the country, it's not something that can be done overnight)

Something like classics is arguably best pretty much kept to a few top notch departments, which may mean the ones which exist seem anomalously large. And they may have anomalously few applicants per place because - entirely sensibly - far more sixth formers take STEM subjects than Latin or Greek. The latter are probably something of a self-selecting set of people with particular engagement and aptitude.

Science and engineering doubtless keeps steady numbers because of sheer physical limits on lab/lecture hall space.

And then I suppose there may be some consideration of the fact that STEM courses are expensive, they are in effect subsidised by the others.

[littleslummygirl]

We are good NotEnough. DD went to an offer day yesterday. Although she realised course focus isn’t quite up her street, it means that unless she hates the other top choice on second visit, she will be certain about first and insurance. She’s nicely in the middle of two other people she knows who applied for different subjects: one got in and very much deserved; the other isn’t taking rejection at all well and in the blackest of moods. One thing she has found is that she likes working at the rate she has been so says she’s not going to slack off. Being unashamedly an ‘intellectual’ is what she likes. And being taken seriously as being bright when she had at one time been written off academically due to sen, means a huge amount to her.

[NotEnoughTime]

That's very good news littleslummygirl. I'm glad to hear it :)

[Bezalelle]

somewhere less prestigious - Hull

I hope you're being sarcastic because this is not on. No surprises this board is accused of snobbery.

[goodbyestranger]

Agree that that's not on.

[Tfgjiknfr]

Have decided my approach if DD does opt for another go is to work as if she had an offer for A+,A+, A+

It needs to be your daughters approach not yours 😉. She may have her own ideas.

[MarchingFrogs]

@Bezalelle, @goodbyestranger, I can assure you that the 'slur' on (the H bit of HYMS) was definitely not meant in earnest. I note that neither of you picked up on my inclusion of the ARU medical school / the city of Chelmsford, though?

I was merely pointing out to the pp that however much it may seem wrong that Oxford doesn't offer more places for Medicine, given the number of applicants, the way the system works vis à vis medical education / training, it really can't just say, 'ooh, look how popular we are, okay, let's offer to another 50 or so'.

[Baaaahhhhh]

There are 3 times more places for classics than computer science. It's 2020 Well yes, at Oxford. But I think you will find that there are more computer science places at the many other institutions than for Classics. Follow the course, not the university. It is also a very contentious argument to sacrifice arts or humanities subjects for STEM. As others have pointed out, Humanities subsidises STEM, and do we really ALL our youngsters ONLY doing STEM subjects. How sad. I say this with two DD's passionate in their opposite fields of STEM and Humanities

[MidLifeCrisis007]

I'm genuinely surprised at how jumpy people are about this.

FWIW DS applied for a humanities subject. I have no axe to grind.

Given that Oxford seems intent on getting its student base to mirror society better, I really don't understand why they don't offer more places for Computer Science. I know lots of other places do. But that's no reason why Oxford shouldn't! It's not a funding issue. Oxford is embarrassed by its riches. And I have little doubt that commercial sponsorship would be forthcoming should they need/want it.

[MrKlaw]

Oxbridge or not oxbridge - isn't this a similar thing for any DCs that got their heart set on University X from an open day, or chat with their friends, or whatever reason?

My DS was really down getting an offer from Warwick but missing the mark by one grade (AAA needed AAA*). He considered a gap year and retaking but eventually calmed down and now he's at Bath and seems happy.

There are tons of universities, and for any given subject more than enough top ones of a type that will suit any applicant. At such a young age its difficult to manage rejection especially if they're predicted to do well, but it really isn't the end of the world

[milliefiori]

Hi,
Good idea for a thread @littleslummygirl.

DT2 is over his initial disappointment. He only has one offer though, from KCL. His subject notoriously offers late.

He's said if LSE offers he'll happily take it. He was almost as excited by the prospect of LSE as Cambridge and he adores London. If they reject (quite possible, despite high predicted grades - his school has a very low success rate at LSE) then he'll probably do a gap year and try again for Cambridge if his results are strong enough, or take up the KCL offer if not.

Privately, I think he'd be happiest at KCL. He'd be comfortably on top of the workload, adore living in central London and he has the option of his second year at a US uni which is also a dream he's always had. But he is still very attached to the kudos of LSE or Cambridge. So if he went to KCL he might have a completely unfounded chip on his shoulder about not having made the grade. That would worry me. Like @Coleoptera's DS, he has rigid ideas about what constitutes success in life and is too hard on himself when he doesn't make what he thinks is the grade.

If he does a gap year, I want him to plan it and to get some good things from it: learning to drive (he's late summer born so hasn't even thought about that yet); starting a band and getting gigs (he's a very good rock/funk/jazz musician and I don't want him to just drop that) and maybe doing a summer school in NYC or Washington. The idea is that a gap year would be something that really excites him in itself, rather than being a limbo until he knows about Cambridge second attempt results.

[littleslummygirl]

Gosh, some people get touchy. I'm not over-invested in any outcom. DD has done most visits herself, including interview. It's her future not mine.
I meant by my approach towards helping DD think through things and not to be dogged by thoughts of 'what if' in any way is to suggest that is a possible avenue towards reapplication if she decides she wants to try.
Her likely firm offer is from somewhere she really wants to go to. V different from Cambridge and required grades lower, but it's all swings and roundabouts.

[MrKlaw]

knowing its not the end of the world is one thing. Persuading a teenager who has been building this up to be the most important decision of their life and who may have been smitten by a particular campus, is another thing. Mine gave all the external signs of not being that bothered, but as soon as he got his results and realised he'd missed Warwick by a hair, he was shellshocked and hard to talk to. We had to get him to call Bath in clearing which was damn lucky as their website didn't show any availability and he was dismissive of his chances.

I think its one of those things they'll look back on. Going to your dream university can be as good/bad as going to a second or third choice - its what you make of it, who you're sharing with etc. Its a crap shoot. But that doesn't help them right now, in the moment of 'failure' (in their eyes)

I don't have an answer. And I don't know if it helps to know others find it difficult too? Probably not :)

[DingDongMerrilyOnThigh]

Midlife - i would guess that oxford numbers for different subjects will re-equilibrate over time. The Cambridge CS numbers seem to be edging up, and as college sizes are pretty fixed something else must have correspondingly yielded a few places.

[SecretGuiltyPleasureLoveIsland]

This was us last year; you do get very invested in it. Tbh, in hindsight it was the best possible result and we're/she is genuinely pleased no offer was made as current university is a much better fit (and like PP said, everyone has Oxbridge type grades).

[Dearover]

With the best will in the world, it will always be difficult to recruit Comp Sci teaching staff when the cash and opportunities in the real world far outweigh a career in academia for most.

[Letsgoforaskip]

Hello 😀 This is my first ever post on a public forum.
My DD was one of many who didn’t receive an offer on 14th. Her Sixth Form Principal sent her a letter which really helped her to feel better. He quoted a Cambridge Admissions Tutor who said,” We do our best to select fairly but we know that, despite our best efforts the selection process is fallible. We turn down candidates whose subsequent performance at other Universities and career achievements demonstrate that they are more talented and interesting people than a good few of the candidates we accept. Hence we hope you will not view the outcome as your failure; it may well be ours.”
Of course this doesn’t take anything away from those who have received offers - massive congratulations to all of you. However, those that didn’t should never be disheartened. You are all amazing and will shine wherever you go.