English at Russell Group Universities

[GinWorksForMe]

DD (Year 12) is thinking of applying for English Literature (or possibly Lit & Lang) for 2021 entry. She has a strong set of GCSE results and is loving English Literature A level, but suffers from anxiety and is worried about interviews.

Has anyone recently applied for English Lit and have any insight into which universities will definitely interview (do any offer without interview for English?) and how best to prepare for interviews? So far she has shortlisted Exeter, York, Nottingham but hasn't visited anywhere yet and is open to all ideas.

Thanks in advance for any help/guidance.

[SarahAndQuack]

I'm sure you can do it, @xenia, but I asked, do most grads want to do it?

And is there any information to suggest the OP's DD wants to do it? Or indeed teaching?

One of the big and irritating fallacies about English grads is that they all want to be teachers.

[WorriedMutha]

My DD had 5 offers for English last year which included Cambridge which was the only place that interviewed. She's at Manchester now and enjoying herself. I would just add that if your daughter is anxious about interviews, you should also look at how her course is assessed. I remember when we went to the King's College open day they said they assess in a variety of ways which included making presentations. You should make sure she chooses a course that assesses in a way she is comfortable with. Looking ahead, hopefully University will help her overcome this anxiety as it would be difficult to enter the workplace without conquering this challenge.

[Piggywaspushed]

I am the only person from my circle of English graduates who is a teacher now. I did always want to be one. I wanted to be a teacher long before I decided that I wanted to study English. That came second.

More widely on my degree course I can think of two or three teachers, a few academics and university employees, a lawyer, a film director, a poet , a journalist/ writer, and a stand up!

[Piggywaspushed]

Manchester interviewed three of my student last year and two this year. Warwick also. These were joint degrees, mind. But I do think it is becoming more common again. They are very much more informal events than the ones at Oxbridge , however.

[SarahAndQuack]

I wanted to be a teacher too, piggy. And I do love teaching.

But your experience is the same as mine - lots of people do English, and for really diverse reasons.

[myfuckingfreezer]

Oh, gosh, I don't think Russell Group matters in the slightest!

Sorry but a really, really disagree with this. We might not want Russell to matter but to many employers it still does. Realistically if you're doing a non-specific subject -I.e. a degree that doesn't lead straight into a career - then the status of your university as a whole matters. Most FTSE 100 companies still only work with a tiny proportion of universities, often Russell.

It's getting better but of the 20 most recruited from universities by top graduate employers, only 1 isn't Russell (Loughborough).

[SarahAndQuack]

I did clarify all of that, though, right?

I distinguished between what I think matters and what employers think.

[Xenia]

Yes, myff is right. All I want is for teenagers to know there is a vast differenec to their life chances in many cases based on which kind of university they attend. Then by all means pick a university that might not be top of an employer's list; but have the information and know the consequences of your choices.

That is my list earlier on on the thread is not too bad to use in terms of maximising your chances in a vast range of the better paid jobs. Other teenagers have no interest now or in the future in those kinds of jobs. My graduate son was a postman for 3 years and now drives a delivery van. The only qualification he needs is his driving licence.

[SarahAndQuack]

I think you're right that it is important to be aware of these things, sure.

My partner comes from a family where Higher Education was an unknown, and certainly nobody ever mentioned that some universities might be considered 'better' than others.

The issue is that the list you've provided is quite subject-specific, and for English, it's actually quite misleading. You don't really want to do English at LSE, for example.

I also think it is hugely important to be aware of how to maximise your chances of passing a degree, and passing it well. People claim that, back in the 1950s, a third from Cambridge carried some clout. Well, it doesn't any more, does it?! If you are choosing universities, you need to know which ones offer the courses - and the modes of assessment - that will best support you to succeed. And, because English courses vary so much, it's particularly important for this subject. There's no benefit to saying 'well, I did get a third/drop out in my first year/suspend my studies ... but hey, I went to NOTTINGHAM! Give me the credit for choosing to apply there!'

[mrwalkensir]

Both Bath Spa and Sussex score very highly for quality of teaching...

[BubblesBuddy]

Employers don’t care about quality of teaching.

The Institute for Fiscal studies have researched whether RG makes a difference to salaries after 5 years. Guess what - it does! English grads are quite a long way dine the earnings table so, if the grad wants to be competitive in the grad job market (not everyone does) university absolutely does matter. Add in a handful of non RG such as Bath, Lancaster and St Andrews, and omit a few lower ranking RGs, you can see Xenia’s list isn’t far off the mark.

Employers know which universities expect higher quality grads. Believe me, old English is waaay harder than easy to read modern books or film. Choose wisely but don’t dismiss the harder courses.

[BubblesBuddy]

Bath spa isn’t Bath. There’s a huge difference !

[SarahAndQuack]

I don't see where anyone said Bath Spa was the same as Bath?

I also don't understand this:

Believe me, old English is waaay harder than easy to read modern books or film

Do you mean Old English? Or old-fashioned English degrees? Or what?

I sincerely doubt OE is qualitatively harder than modern books, or than film studies. Why would it be?

[MillicentMartha]

Manchester’s interviews are more like compulsory offer holder days. DS was interviewed there (for maths admittedly) this year and it was really informal.

[GCAcademic]

Both Bath Spa and Sussex score very highly for quality of teaching...

Seeing as the body which assesses the quality of teaching does so without setting foot in a classroom or looking at the content of courses, or at teaching materials, its rankings are next to useless.

[FlyMayBe]

Newcastle

My DD did English Lit there. She loved the course and had lots of support with her SN (Asperger and Anxiety)

[TartanMarbled]

@GCAcademic I completely disagree. The TEF uses excellent metrics of good teaching. This includes student views and attainment. Entirely apt.

[Piggywaspushed]

I did Old English (Anglo Saxon and Norse). It wasn't hard. We were all beginners and so it was the easiest thing we did. It was very enjoyable but a lot of that was down to the inspirational professor.

I am not going to get sucked into qualitative discussions about Film . OP hasn't said anything about that.

[Piggywaspushed]

easy to read modern books did amuse me. There's whole thread of ultra enthusiastic readers who abandoned Wolf Hall .

[myfuckingfreezer]

Sorry @sarahandquak I didn't spit your other posts, just ta sentence that jumped out to me.

[SarahAndQuack]

No worries mff!

And YY about modern books. I think people sometimes confuse English degrees with book group

[GCAcademic]

I completely disagree. The TEF uses excellent metrics of good teaching. This includes student views and attainment. Entirely apt

Measuring student attainment has caused rampant grade inflation. The system rewards universities which accept students with weak A-levels and have them graduate with a 2:1 or higher ("value added").The post-92 down the road from where I work gets an excellent TEF score. Staff I know there happily admit that it's because they hand out passes to students who should fail, and inflate marks across the board.

As for student "satisfaction", this is a notorious imprecise methodology for assessing actual teaching quality. Many students will evaluate modules and courses positively because they find them not too difficult, because they are happy with generous grading, or because they like the tutor. There has been research done which shows the bias which underpins student evaluations - female academics are less likely to be seen as authorities on their subject, even in comparison to male academics who are less senior. Same goes for BAME staff. This is one of the reasons student evaluations are not used for academic promotion or appointment panels in this country, unlike the US (where students even get to informally rate their learning experience on how "hot" the tutor is).

[Piggywaspushed]

I don't think we should conflate life chances with high pay, high social status jobs. Any child increases life chances in the true sense of the word the higher level of education they attain.

Someone could have a superb quality of life, excellent health, great happiness in work, fulfilment and a decent standard of living with a non 'top' job from a non elite institution. Unless you really do think life chances equate to high pay.

Life chances is really a phrase people use when they are talking about disadvantaged students and their families reducing their life chances through much more catastrophic circumstances than choosing to study at De Montfort (name plucked from air). In fact, widening participation schemes ,across all types of universities, are making genuine attempts towards improving life chances.

[CosmoK]

Find a copy of Degree Course Offers - that will tell you who interviews and give you past interview questions. Look on university websites as they should make their recruitment process transparent.
Also people often share their experiences on Student Room.

[TartanMarbled]

@GCAcademic

Staff I know there happily admit that it's because they hand out passes to students who should fail, and inflate marks across the board.

I sincerely, sincerely doubt that anyone does this, or "happily admits" to this. I am an academic in a widening participation post-92.

Of course student satisfaction is taken into account in promotion criteria. It is am imperfect measure, but a good gauge of problems/poor teaching. Why would you assume that an Ofsted approach (examiners coming into the classroom) would be any less biased against women and BAME staff?

You sound like a dinosaur. Any chance you're from a REF-strong institution with poor teaching, and are now upset that teaching is being valued as highly as research? Many REF-strong institutions are piss-poor on pedagogy.