PPE or History & Politics, which A Levels?

[Cuddlysnowleopard]

DS1 (Year 11) is obsessed with politics. Also loves history and is strong at maths.

He assumed he woukd study maths, History and Economics A Level, thinking ahead to either PPE or a History and Politics degree.

His school have, however, just started to offer Government and Politics A Level. He read through the sylbus at school a couple of weeks ago and says it is a doddle. He's thinking about taking it as a fourth (his predicted grades are high enough to do this at all of the local schools) but we're reading so much about the crazy work load with the new A Levels.

So, assuming he is aiming high, question is whether Politics is considered a less "strong" choice compared to Economins? Would d it be better to try all four? Or economics and an EPQ in politics?

Thank you!

[goodbyestranger]

You're welcome to say you disagree about the overlap Zanda but it was completely the case at our school for a number of years that there was a significant overlap between the two syllabuses. The whole of the Thatcher years for a start. This of course makes it easier for History teachers to deliver the Politics curriculum in schools where spending money on employing a specialist Politics teacher isn't an option. There was direct overlap. It could be avoided of course, but that's down to the school's decision on which syllabus to follow for each subject.

[goodbyestranger]

At one stage the school was considering dropping Politics as an A level option but it was ruled in because it could be fairly easily delivered by the History department and provided a reasonably accessible option for students at the weaker end of the ability range.

[goodbyestranger]

That obviously doesn't mean that all those who opt for it are on the weaker end of the ability range, but it does have a reputation for being a fairly soft option which may influence choices.

[Peony99]

It's a fascinating A Level.

I did it, and I now work in political communications. I still use stuff I was taught then!

And yes, dead easy if you're interested in it (or it was in 2004).

[Ginfordinner]

I understood that "facilitating subjects" were to be scrapped. Besides, if the OP's son is doing history and maths they are considered as strong subjects anyway.

I know a couple of students who got into Oxbridge in the last couple of years with Government and Politics A level as one of their subjects.

[BubblesBuddy]

Yes, they will as a third subject. But it’s not the best subject for PPE. It’s great for Politics. It totally depends which subject(s) DC is reading and how competitive the course is. If you are reading English, Politics is just fine. It goes well with History for a History degree. It is fine with MFL. My DD submitted one of her Politics essays for her Oxford application. It just possibly isn’t competitive for PPE. You can look up what A levels students have studied for this course on the Oxford web site. Then see what’s most popular. Go with that?

DDs Politics didn’t overlap with the History syllabus. Depended on the board.

[bpisok]

TBH I don't think it matters whether you do politics or economics....so long as you are keeping maths and history.

I think both are seen equally but its frowned on to do both together.

Could be wrong but I think politics is one of those subjects that has become a lot harder and Unis know that.

DD does politics and finds it fairly easy because she has watched the news, documentaries and topical programmes since she was 4 and also has the memory of an elephant. We have lots of political debates at home and go to the US every year to visit my cousins and have more political debates....not always politics, we like to throw religion in there too 😀
Other students in her class find it very challenging but they are actually learning this info for the first time (no idea why they are doing politics!!)

Economics is also relatively easy if you are good at concepts and maths.

For PPE I am pretty sure RE, Philosophy, English etc would also be good 3rd subjects.

[ZandathePanda]

Hello Goodbye. Have a look back at what I said. There were a couple of lessons that overlapped - however this will depends on your history options of course. There’s not going to be much of an overlap pre 1940s. Politics is very modern for example Brexit, Gina Miller, names of current Supreme Court judges were all discussed in the text books in 2017.

A lot of people who got A in other subjects (history, maths, geography, economics, chemistry, English Lit) in Dd’s school did not get an A in Politics. Dd got As in her ‘facilitating’ subjects then Politics (A). She had been getting As all through sixth form and actually thought all the exams went really well. As I said before though, the very experienced teacher/examiner said that many politics teachers were up in arms over the marking. This can only improve over time as it was the first year. Remember the teacher said that this new syllabus has added the first year content of a lot of BA courses. He has taught government and politics for years and examined it too and advised exam boards in the past. He was amazed at the unpredictability of the results. One theory is lots of young people want to do Politics and there was a big jump this year in exam entries so maybe boards had trouble getting experienced markers.

It would be interesting to hear anyone else’s opinions who had a Dc that did this new course.

As someone else said, if the two other A Levels are the traditionally robust ones it doesn’t matter that politics is soft, hard or medium rare.

I, however, have another child who also wants to do Politics but with one more ‘non-facilitating’ subject so have to declare an interest in this thread!

[ZandathePanda]

Just in case my last post sounds a bit pretentious, what I should add is that we too were under the impression Politics was a ‘easier’ subject to get a high grade in. Dd did Politics because she loved it but expected it to be her highest graded subject.
I disagree with Goodbye’s school that it’s for the ‘weaker end’. Although I think all ‘ends’ would get something out of it - the course is more relevant than history and gives pupils confidence for speaking about current affairs with authority - be it the environment, poverty, economy, UN, recent conflicts and resolutions.....

[Piggywaspushed]

I understand the cachet of PPE but if he is 'mad keen' on history maybe he would actually prefer a history degree? Much more opportunity to delve into different eras and types of history , and the opportunity to study political/economic history.

My DS also did the new politics A Level and did not cover as much as zanda's : are you sure the teachers at your school didn't cover more than they needed to zanda??

He isn't as academic as those under discussion here but mine did like politics a lot pre A Level. He found the politics A Level very dry (part of that was the teachers though). New, shiny subjects at A Level are often not as interesting as they seem. He is, however, now studying politics and IR at university and enjoying it.

[Piggywaspushed]

Oh , and DS's schools results were a bit odd, too, from what I heard.

[Piggywaspushed]

On another note, I am a bit worried that a school that ahs only just decided to offer the A Level is calling it government and politics , given it is no longer called that!

[Danglingmod]

As I said, I know a student just started Oxford with both politics and economics (and history). Obviously didn't stop him getting in.

At neither my son, nor my son's would there be any crossover between history and politics because the most modern periods studied were, respectively, French Revolution and Russian Revolution. I know other schools do pick Thatcher's Britain etc.

[ZandathePanda]

Piggy lol I hope they didn’t cover too much! Stuck to the syllabus and bought the 2 Pearson text books. Didn’t cover the ideologies so much in school so she spent extra time on those. Dd had a hand injury so couldn’t write revision notes to save her hand for exams, so read to me a lot . I know politics better than I anticipated . She also bought two set of flash cards (500?) for the first exam from a revision company that were good on U.K. politics so that was straightforward. The school could have done USA or Global for the 2nd paper. They chose Global which covered a lot (as you would imagine)! There were no flashcards out for the second exam. The text book referred back to the syllabus so it’s all you can go on.

[ZandathePanda]

Also Dd was lucky enough to have an enthusiastic politics specialist in a comprehensive state school. He was very inspiring.

Your Dds decision may depend on who is teaching it.

I will stop my ‘blog’ now!!

[Trewser]

Dds friend did PPE with Economics, History and RS. Her school doesn't do Politics A level.

[goodbyestranger]

Zanda I read what you wrote. I was drawing on experience of students at our school and the fact that there happened to be a marked degree of overlap because of the syllabuses chosen meant that the more able students may have wanted to avoid duplication.That won't be relevant at schools with different syllabuses but a consideration where there is this overlap.

Our school definitely decided it would be wrong to dispense with Politics because it does appeal to those at the weaker end. That was the reasoning. There's a range of ability even within grammar schools. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't take the subject if you're nearer the top end!

As I said before, I think the position at our school tends to be History and Maths as standard for PPE at Oxford and Politics for those intending to do Politics elsewhere. That's the broad distinction.

[Trewser]

That was at oxford btw

[goodbyestranger]

the course is more relevant than history

Controversial!

[goodbyestranger]

Trewser PPE clearly allows for a range of subjects at A level but as with a job spec, it's a good idea to tick off the 'essentials'. History and Maths does that for all three elements pretty much, in short order, that's why those two at least in a hand of A levels are so popular.

[TheJellyBabyMadeMeDoIt]

Just at the college tour stage, DD is Y11.

She wants to do Politics, Eng Lit or Lang (she's umming and ahhing) and Economics with History as a 4th option. Her passion lies in Politics.

She's being told she is capable of applying to Oxford, but I think school are setting her up for a fall. She's at an inner city comp, I'm a single mum working 16 hours a week. She may well be capable, but reality is Oxford isn't in our reach.

Anyway, that's by the by.

Reading this with interest.

[bpisok]

Jelly - this may not be correct but DD was advised Eng Lit is seen as more academic than Lang so probably work checking (unless she strongly prefers Lang of course!)

...the fact that you are a single mum working 16 hours shouldn't make Oxbridge out of reach. If she good enough, motivated enough and determined enough then she has as much chance (and right) to get a place as anyone else. Having said that, there are more suitable applicants than places so rejection figures are high....but they are not determined by your family background. If anything she will have a marginal advantage at getting an interview since they put 'contextual flags' on applicants and they consider performance in the context of your school (good grades from a poor school are worth more than good grades from a good school).
.....don't ever think that she not good enough or that anything is out of reach!

[Needmoresleep]

Butting in...surely the weaker end of a grammar school is still strong. (Though I guess that may depend on sixth form entry requirements - some around London demand extraordinary GCSE grades.)

Is weak really the right word? Some can be very strong at politics/policy yet not be natural mathematicians or linguists. (I say with 2 DC who absolutely preferred maths to humanities, and could not wait to drop English. I would not describe them as stronger, just different.)

[goodbyestranger]

The weaker end of a cohort is the term used to describe the weaker end of a cohort Needmoresleep. I don't think it tends to be used directly to students, but someone has to be at the weaker end - as I said, ability isn't uniform even within a grammar. I actually didn't say weak.

[titchy]

I'm a single mum working 16 hours a week. She may well be capable, but reality is Oxford isn't in our reach.

Why? Unless entry criteria is 'must have two FT employed parents who live together', your employment and marital status have absolutely nothing to do with her application.

If you're talking about 'fitting in' - I have some sympathy - but at the end of the day it's up to her. Don't discourage - if she wants to try, be supportive. Most Oxbridge kids are state educated.

Most student offspring of the Royal Family had single parents btw - being a single parent isn't exactly unclean...