PPE or History & Politics, which A Levels?

[Cuddlysnowleopard]

DS1 (Year 11) is obsessed with politics. Also loves history and is strong at maths.

He assumed he woukd study maths, History and Economics A Level, thinking ahead to either PPE or a History and Politics degree.

His school have, however, just started to offer Government and Politics A Level. He read through the sylbus at school a couple of weeks ago and says it is a doddle. He's thinking about taking it as a fourth (his predicted grades are high enough to do this at all of the local schools) but we're reading so much about the crazy work load with the new A Levels.

So, assuming he is aiming high, question is whether Politics is considered a less "strong" choice compared to Economins? Would d it be better to try all four? Or economics and an EPQ in politics?

Thank you!

[TheJellyBabyMadeMeDoIt]

(sorry Op)

Just to thank those who have replied to me, it is greatly appreciated and I will look into the links and advice

[myidentitymycrisis]

Lot of RG universities require A level maths for PPE.
DS was strong at maths at GCSE but struggled with AS and dropped it.
He took PPE with P, P, and Ec. A levels but he struggled in the mathematical economics modules. I think it would be better to take maths, and two from the PPE group.

[MarchingFrogs]

Cambridge Masterclass funded places application:
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/fundedplaces

[KittyMcKitty]

Taken from the LSE website regarding suggested / ideal subject for History & Politics degree:

For the BSc Politics and History we are looking for academic students with a genuine interest in and enthusiasm for the social and political sciences. There is no one ideal subject combination, but common sixth form subject choices include Government and Politics, History, English, Economics, Sociology, Philosophy, Languages and Mathematics

I have a child studying A level government & politics- it is not an easy “soft” option by any means. At their school it comes under tge remit of the history department but also some of it is taught by a teacher who also teaches economics.

[BasiliskStare]

well just to say that if he wants PPE ( or other similar courses ) History and Maths would be great. Friend of Ds went to Oxford with , History , Maths and TP ( Philosophy and ethics by another name )

At his school one of dd's teachers said that if you want to do economics . take maths , not economics - you can learn the economics later on.

But then I do not know

Best wishes to your DC

[MollyButton]

@TheJellyBabyMadeMeDoIt also if things are really tough for your DD it might be worth her while looking at the Foundation year at Oxford - which is spreading beyond LMH where it started, and really helps fabulous young people with "difficulties" in their back grounds get to Oxford (and other top Universities).

[ZandathePanda]

OP can you ask the school what options they have decided to do then request the text books from the local library? Have a flick through to decide.

[Timeywimey10]

jelly don't let your financial circumstances put you off Oxbridge, they are doing a lot to widen participation, as indeed are other good universities - see www.reading.ac.uk/teachers-and-advisors/events-and-activities/ta-readingscholars.aspx which is free to those who qualify.

Also www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/masterclasses?mc_cid=4a884cdace&mc_eid=7262f17053 (they cost £20 but I think they have financial assistance available)

My ds is doing politics (alongside history and Spanish) but he doesn't know what he wants to do, so not much help from the PPE perspective.

[Cuddlysnowleopard]

Thanks again. Will read through properly later when I'm home from work.

DS is targeted 8/9 at maths. He's doing ad maths as well and he's fine with it.

History is also a no brainer for him. Target is 8/9.

He's the type of child who reads the news hourly, watches political stuff on his phone etc. Normal for me to get home to find him lying on the sofa eating the contents of the kitchen in front of BBC Parliament.

I think that part of the problem is that he doesn't really know what the courses entail. It's a bit of a leap in the dark, even though he's read the syllabus.

Same with University. He's saying PPE but who knows whether he'd enjoy it. I went through the exam for law, got to the Oxford interview, and absolutely hated the feel of the place!

[ZandathePanda]

Agree with Xenia over maths. You need to ‘get’ maths. Two pupils we knew who got 7s got D and E at A Level.

[Xenia]

He should do maths history and economics A level and perhaps politics as a 4th if he is up to it. ( can you still do AS levels in lower sixth in which case he could do that with politics - my older son did that and then stopped it after AS?)

Maths, history and economics are probably better regarded than politics and also it can be a bit risky to do a newly offered subject anyway.

be careful of maths - it sounds like he is good at it and quite a few people get A* who are good at maths A level BUT it is a massive jump from GCSE only do it if you are going to be vry good at it otherwise some people who get As at GCSE can end up with Cs and Ds or so my sons' school warned. Mine did not want to do maths but a lot of parents had started pushing children into maths for career reasons when the children were not likely to get high grades and it messed up their A levels in a sense.

[TheJellyBabyMadeMeDoIt]

Oh wow. Thank you all.

It's come as a shock to be honest and there's an awful lot of other stuff going on in the background, so I'm not being outwardly negative in fact I'm listening to her and making the right noises I think/hope. I am just so out of my depth as I didn't think it possible, either financially or socially. I need to get clued up and do some research

I don't want to derail this thread, but thank you for all who replied to me it's very informative and kind.

[mateysmum]

She may well be capable, but reality is Oxford isn't in our reach.

JellyBaby If you mean financially, you couldn't be more wrong. It can be far cheaper to attend Oxford than many other unis. There is a lot of help available in bursaries and as most colleges offer subsidised accommodation is for all 3 years this is relatively reasonably priced, safe and secure.

Please , please don't put your DD off applying thinking "it's not for the likes of us". Oxbridge is not the be all and end all there are many excellent unis out there, but let your DD decide for the right reasons.

[ZandathePanda]

It would be really interesting to know what universities think of the new Politics rather than the old Government and Politics.
Maybe there was a reason in changing its name?

[mateysmum]

Have a look at this: www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics
and
www.ppe.ox.ac.uk/applying-for-ppe/admissions-criteria

As it suggests maths might be useful, is that an option? Otherwise, they don't seem to mind which subject you do. I would tend to go for economics as this is a more "traditional" subject. Your DS could always contact the relevant admissions people and ask for advice.

Also might be worth posting on the Oxbridge threads on here where there is lots of advice from people with DCs currently or recently going through Oxbridge admissions.

[PandaTurtle]

I didn't have trouble fitting in, in fact was much happier there than at school where I had been bullied largely for being bright/studious by other girls. I had one Engineering professor tell me I had a common background and I sounded common but even he wrote a handwritten letter of apology which I then gave to the Dean and I think stern words were had with him.

[PandaTurtle]

Jelly I went to a rural comprehensive where no-one had gone throughout the school and got to Oxbridge, school discouraged applications, told me not to bother applying. Went to 2 open events for PPE at Oxford big named colleges, full of very confident public schools boys discussing philosophy, put me off. Then phoned Cambridge college and 3 would let me see them on an individual basis. 2 were with the Economics professors, both lovely and both said if I'ld apply they would offer me a place. Applied to one and they did and they also wrote to school to tell them off for not supporting application and let me contact them anytime I wanted for support and wrote me handwritten letters. Some colleges will go above and beyond to support applicants like your DD. Think it's done more formally now with an outreach programme but very worth visiting different colleges. There were quite a few from inner city comprehensives and single parents even in my day. In my day you needed to avoid the big name colleges but think that's changed. It was 80% private school at my college and 80% male but the statistics have massively improved since then.

They do take into account school results when you apply now so that helps but take all the support you can get from Oxford and/or Cambridge. You obviously do need the grades, the passion and ability to think outside the box and some luck.

[titchy]

I'm a single mum working 16 hours a week. She may well be capable, but reality is Oxford isn't in our reach.

Why? Unless entry criteria is 'must have two FT employed parents who live together', your employment and marital status have absolutely nothing to do with her application.

If you're talking about 'fitting in' - I have some sympathy - but at the end of the day it's up to her. Don't discourage - if she wants to try, be supportive. Most Oxbridge kids are state educated.

Most student offspring of the Royal Family had single parents btw - being a single parent isn't exactly unclean...

[goodbyestranger]

The weaker end of a cohort is the term used to describe the weaker end of a cohort Needmoresleep. I don't think it tends to be used directly to students, but someone has to be at the weaker end - as I said, ability isn't uniform even within a grammar. I actually didn't say weak.

[Needmoresleep]

Butting in...surely the weaker end of a grammar school is still strong. (Though I guess that may depend on sixth form entry requirements - some around London demand extraordinary GCSE grades.)

Is weak really the right word? Some can be very strong at politics/policy yet not be natural mathematicians or linguists. (I say with 2 DC who absolutely preferred maths to humanities, and could not wait to drop English. I would not describe them as stronger, just different.)

[bpisok]

Jelly - this may not be correct but DD was advised Eng Lit is seen as more academic than Lang so probably work checking (unless she strongly prefers Lang of course!)

...the fact that you are a single mum working 16 hours shouldn't make Oxbridge out of reach. If she good enough, motivated enough and determined enough then she has as much chance (and right) to get a place as anyone else. Having said that, there are more suitable applicants than places so rejection figures are high....but they are not determined by your family background. If anything she will have a marginal advantage at getting an interview since they put 'contextual flags' on applicants and they consider performance in the context of your school (good grades from a poor school are worth more than good grades from a good school).
.....don't ever think that she not good enough or that anything is out of reach!

[TheJellyBabyMadeMeDoIt]

Just at the college tour stage, DD is Y11.

She wants to do Politics, Eng Lit or Lang (she's umming and ahhing) and Economics with History as a 4th option. Her passion lies in Politics.

She's being told she is capable of applying to Oxford, but I think school are setting her up for a fall. She's at an inner city comp, I'm a single mum working 16 hours a week. She may well be capable, but reality is Oxford isn't in our reach.

Anyway, that's by the by.

Reading this with interest.

[goodbyestranger]

Trewser PPE clearly allows for a range of subjects at A level but as with a job spec, it's a good idea to tick off the 'essentials'. History and Maths does that for all three elements pretty much, in short order, that's why those two at least in a hand of A levels are so popular.

[goodbyestranger]

the course is more relevant than history

Controversial!

[Trewser]

That was at oxford btw