Easier exams in private schools counted in the same way as harder state school exams

[greentheme23]

I'm shocked by this

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/aug/24/private-schools-igcse-exams-easier-gcse-university-admissions?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Yet another example of money triumphing over talent and hard work!

Believe me my daughters eyes have been widely opened by being amongst mainly private sc6ool.pupils. And an 8 and 9 equal A *
My point was to those saying unis dont care about gcses. For things like medicine and Oxbridge they definitely do!

Anecdotal I concede but I found my dyslexic child's experience interesting .It seemed impossible for them to pass the English gcse .They were made to retake it many times .At college they eventually took the igce and passed first time.

IGCSEs are and always have been easier - the old Cambridge board IGCSE was easier than the old GCSE, and the newer version is much easier than the new GCSE - I’ve taught and examined both.

You are all missing the point!

On Mumsnet the exams OUR DC are doing are always the hardest!

If they are doing reformed GCSE these are MUCH harder than IGCSE.
If they are doing old style GCSE these are also much harder than IGCSE.
If they are doing IGCSE these are clearly much harder than any GCSE whether old style or new.

A levels are harder than IB and preU.
IB is harder than A level and pre U.
Pre U is the hardest of all ( except where the DC are told the Q and As before the exam -but apparently they have stopped that-

For things like medicine and Oxbridge they definitely do!

Actually even Ox and most med schools (some do so check!) don't differentiate by GCSE. Tbh even if they did, they still want a raft of Astars at A level, so even if you think iGCSEs are easier, it's likely that kids capable of Astars at A level would still have got top GCSE grades if they had done them instead of iGCSEs.

On Mumsnet the exams OUR DC are doing are always the hardest!

True!

Igcse maths is two 90 min exams with a calculator. GCSE maths is three 90 min exams only one of which is with a calculator.

Yet another example of money triumphing over talent and hard work!

Yet another one with a huge chip Gosh, is your shoulder heavy OP?
Come on you can't really be shocked by what you read in the media.

Igcse maths is two 90 min exams with a calculator. GCSE maths is three 90 min exams only one of which is with a calculator.

GCSE is two thirds calculator.

Actually even Ox and most med schools (some do so check!) don't differentiate by GCSE.

They definitely do. A few other top universities place a high weighting on GCSE grades too for their more competitive courses.

igcse Maths is 2 calculator papers and one non calculator, I feel like I know the content as well as the teachers. I've spent most of the holiday finding extra resources, cutting out questions to give to my dd as the title of Higher or lower sets her off.

It is true. While they have all now been altered, 9-1 I have been saying this since the reformed GCSEs came out. I can't believe it's taken this long to hit the media though there were attempts about a year ago. There was a year where iGCSE was still A*-C and so the difference was even more stark. Plus the iGCSE still I think has a coursework option which had been banned in the state sector gcse because of the constantly increasing teacher assessments of these and the implication that students were not always submitting independent work. Of course this couldn't be happening in iGCSE 🧐

A few other top universities place a high weighting on GCSE grades too for their more competitive courses.

And does it strike you as likely that someone who got straight A stars at iGCSE, straight A stars at A level wouldn't also be capable of top grade GCSEs?

Or are you really trying to say that these kids who get offers based on their string of top grade iGCSEs and top grade predicted A levels, are in fact as thick as pig shit?

Sorry, I've just checked, I'm looking at GCSE Edexcel Pearson not igcse, apologies.

Or are you really trying to say that these kids who get offers based on their string of top grade iGCSEs and top grade predicted A levels, are in fact as thick as pig shit?

Nope, I'm saying that this:

Actually even Ox and most med schools (some do so check!) don't differentiate by GCSE.

Is factually incorrect. Most applicants will have or be on track to achieve the A Level grades required for the course so they have to differentiate in other ways. GCSE grades will be one of these ways. And if you have a situation where everything else is equal, the kid who got better grades in the easier IGCSEs may well be chosen over the kid who got slightly lower grades in the harder GCSEs if admissions teams aren't taking the differing difficulty levels into account.

Plus the iGCSE still I think has a coursework option

No coursework in the subjects DD did. Only subjects she had coursework were Drama and Computing I think, and both of them were normal GCSEs,

Most applicants will have or be on track to achieve the A Level grades required for the course so they have to differentiate in other ways.

Still not true aside from some specific courses at specific HEIs. Entry tests (BMAT, STEP, LNAT etc) far more likely to be the differentiator for Ox, Med type applicants.

Don't forget most courses, even at RG, won't need to differentiate beyond A level predictions.

And if you have a situation where everything else is equal, the kid who got better grades in the easier IGCSEs may well be chosen over the kid who got slightly lower grades in the harder GCSEs if admissions teams aren't taking the differing difficulty levels into account

Oxbridge admissions teams are bending over backwards to recruit more students from the state sector. This does not happen.

(I)GCSE results are considered against the cohort from an applicants school. So a student from a school where 10 A* is the norm is expected to exceed this. An applicant from a school which performs poorly at GCSE will be interviewed with something like 5 or 6 A grades. It is all contextualised.

Plus the iGCSE still I think has a coursework option

No it doesn't, and the iGCSE's DD did 6 years ago didn't either. On the other hand, the GCSE's she did, DID have coursework.

I don't know any IGCSEs that have or had a coursework option. They are exam only. Isn't that harder than being able to amend your coursework several times do that it is what your teacher tells you it should be? Don't think many GCSEs have coursework either now (?).

Would anyone like to divide all contributors into two groups; those who've paid through the nose and therefore, though recognising they've bought their own children advantage, couldn't possibly admit it on here; and state school kids' parents? 😂

If I could have afforded it, I would have sent mine private, King Eddie's in Southampton, in fact.

As it was, we did what we could afford which was to send them to the top performing comp in the area via buying a house in catchment.

We will never know if they would have done better at (I)GCSE or GCSE. But, I would like to know that I had done everything I could to advantage my children (over yours). There, I said it. Because RG only has so many places. Which are being filled by DC no cleverer than yours, just with more 'points' because the exams they sat afforded more points.

Then they sat in private sixth forms in small classes, forensically guided every step by people whose jobs depended on Bruno's uni offer grade being achieved. Tho, even if not, his parents will get every paper 'reviewed' to get him there.

There's nothing wrong with coursework, as long as it's rigorously administered.

I think those of you with girls need to not crow so much about 'exam, only'; given that much of life isn't 'exam only', as girls do worse than boys in that scenario.

Don't forget most courses, even at RG, won't need to differentiate beyond A level predictions.

I did specifically say competitive courses at top universities. I wasn't really referring to the RG as a whole. Some highly oversubscribed courses such as Economics do not have BMAT/LNAT/STEP type tests and they absolutely will use GCSEs to differentiate between candidates.

Because RG only has so many places. Which are being filled by DC no cleverer than yours, just with more 'points' because the exams they sat afforded more points.

Neither statement is actually true. Given the current demographic dip, many RG university courses are actually struggling to fill their places. There is no way that they are actually enforcing the listed offer grades at A level, let alone caring about the details of students GCSE grades.

For the courses that are actually selective, GCSEs will only be a very small part of the overall picture. For one thing, nobody even distinguishes between 8, 9 and A star. Also nobody rejects a strong scientist for only having Bs or 6s/7s in GCSE in humanities/languages i.e. nobody is using just bare GCSE points to make admissions decisions.

Some of the comments from the state schoolers are just plain wrong on this thread.

However if people want to think there is no point in trying because their hcildren will always lose out carry on thinking it - but it's not a very positive way to think and probably will not help children do their best and aim as high as they can. (Most of my children at private schools by the way did NOT do any iGCSEs and my son drives a van for a super market delivery firm so the idea that everyone who goes to private schools gets bought exam grades and a stellar career obviously didn't happen to him and plenty of other children we know).