Becoming a University Professor/Lecturer/Tutor

[seisachtheia]

Hello all,

I have a DS at Oxford. He's studying Classics, and is hugely passionate about it. He thinks he might like to go into teaching at a university/further research or possibly go to the bar.

So what is the process these days? BA then MA then Dphil/Phd?

Is it worth it? What is they pay like?

Always worth having a back up plan and thinking about transferable skills, phds are definitely a qualification that can be a negative in terms of earning potential but if your DS does go into it with his eyes open, he may spend 10 years doing what he loves before he has to find a new plan - is that so bad?

I used to work with a classics phd who went into IT - plenty of us will change careers. It depends whether the risk of having to change careers and not be high earning in the early part of your life means that you wouldn’t pursue what you love most - only he can decide that.

Comparison with being an actor or musician is a great way to get across how much it has changed, how insecure it is for most, how vast the competition, and how very few get the well-paid secure jobs. It is not what it was 20 or 30 years ago. A lot of universities have cut back on permanent posts and replaced them with temporary and sessional contracts.

3 yr Cambridge job starts on £32k for Res. Associate in their Languages+medieval languages dept, only requires PhD, some pubs & specific skills (but not prior WE).

A post like this will have dozens, perhaps even hundreds of applicants from all over the world, all of them top students from top universities who are incredibly keen and brilliant, and were the best in their year at undergrad level. Plenty of them will have been on other temporary contracts for years already.

My initial reaction is NO but...

I have a PhD in French, which is a field without a lot of movement- people just don’t retire, and the teaching at the lower levels is done by hourly paid colleagues who get a pittance. Jobs are very hard to come by and most of the people I know, with and without permanent posts, have had to relocate numerous times, often for no great salary.

HOWEVER - if your DS is passionate, willing to slog away through the temporary contract years without much financial return for very hard work and to relocate then fair enough. No reason he has to limit himself to the UK.

But not a simple or easy career choice by any means. An MPhil initially sounds a wise idea.

I'm a Senior Lecturer in a university (non-Russel). I don't have a PhD. Joined academia as Teaching Fellow straight after my masters, and then became Lecturer and Senior Lecturer. Full-time permanent job that has 5 hours of teaching per week on average. I'm also the programme director of a course that is delivered in more than ten countries. So a bit of travel involved. Use my free time for consultancy work.

It depends on the route taken. Research route takes more time to go up the ladder while management route is quicker. I'm not a believer in academic publications. Who reads all the thousands of journal articles published every year?! There will be 20-25 per year in a subject area that will have real impact.

There are many universities that don't require PhD as entry criteria for lecturers. Do PhD if you are passionate about research in your field.

There are many universities that don't require PhD as entry criteria for lecturers.

Would you like to list those universities, then, and tell us what their Classics departments are like?

My area is strategic management and international business. I don't have much knowledge about classics.

I check jobs.ac.uk every week to see what's out there. Usually universities ranked below 50 have teaching lecturerships that doesn't require a PhD.

I think doing a post-doc depends on the subject area. My wife has a PhD in Management but never did post-doc. She is a lecturer in a non-Russel university, but a business school that's consistently ranked in the top 40 in Financial Times business school rankings

Yes ... but the thread is about Classics ...

I'm stunned and disappointed about how many are saying no. Granted classics is very much an old boys network still of Oxbridge graduates but if someone wants to do it let them at least try - support them instead of discouraging them. I've just gone back to academia after 25 years in business and wish I'd done it sooner. It's so rewarding and engaging with students is so wonderful!

But @whotheeff, why raise people’s expectations, when the likelihood of landing a permanent academic post, even if it weren’t in a low demand subject, are vanishingly small? Yes, it can be rewarding, but unless you’re aware of the pitfalls you are likely to have years of frustration.

I agree with whotheeff, If you don't try, you will never get it. The best attitude is to aim the goal, know the difficulties, work hard to get it. Even they don't get it in the end, they will find other ways to earn a life . Especially OP's son is at Oxford, it is already a good start point.