Oxbridge Applications

[Bibibayliss]

Dear Mums

My daughter is planning to apply to Cambridge next year. She will be taking her entrance tests this October. A company called Oxbridge Applications, ( not endorsed by Oxford or Cambridge) provide consultancy services on entrance tests, interviews etc. Has anybody used them or has any feedback about the company.
Thank you in advance

[MariaNovella]

Oxbridge do huge amounts of (under reported) outreach work to combat this.

Outreach work that is not audited and that fails to achieve its stated aims.

[MariaNovella]

PCohle - no one says that getting into Oxbridge is a complicated black art. Peoplep who have not looked closely at the market for intermediation between applicants and universities still naively believe that the moral course of action is to tell students to read the website, do a bit of extra reading and have a go. Wake up :)

[PCohle]

Because that is the best course of action.

Consultancy businesses propagate the idea that their services are necessary because their only incentive is making money, not assisting disadvantaged students. Wake up :)

[MariaNovella]

You are defending social injustice. Shame on you.

[PCohle]

Telling kids they don't have to pay hundreds or thousands of pounds to "consultants" to get into Oxbridge is not defending social injustice. What actual planet are you on.

Putting children from state schools off applying because they can't afford "consultants" and think their application is likely to be unsuccessful however, is hugely damaging to attempts to widen access.

[MariaNovella]

No one is telling anyone they have to pay hundreds or thousands of pounds for advice. The message is that you do need to be aware of the extent of the advice that other applicants (your competitors) will be accessing through multiple channels and that you need to do your homework early and to seek out people who can help you. Keeping other people’s eyes firmly shut to market reality is not OK.

[PCohle]

"Seek out people who can help you" - having spend the entire thread claiming that schools are at best incompetent and at worst actively sabotaging Oxbridge applicants, I assume by this you do in fact mean paid consultants?

[Hollybollybingbong]

DD is state schooled and a first generation university applicant, plenty of advice CAN be found on the website. Student room has admissions staff from Cambridge who answer specific questions and offer advice, mumsnet posters have also been very generous with their advice.
Her school is fine but had limited support or experience of Oxbridge, when we found out about applying for Summer schools etc, we told school and they informed other students.
DD has an offer for Cambridge, she didn't have to jump through hoops or pay anyone for support, she just had to care enough about getting there to do the research.
What holds people back, in my experience, is feeling like the system is against you and you're not wanted, again, in my experience, I've found this to be completely untrue.

[MariaNovella]

PCohle - I don’t mean any particular source of assistance and I would always recommend in life to cross as many sources of information from different angles as you possibly can.

[mateysmum]

MariaNovella I really don't know what world you live in but I don't recognise it. I am an Oxbridge graduate, and my son recently applied from a good independent school. I am in regular contact with my old college and receive regular updates on the admission process.
I have never heard of school having these droves of university guidance counsellors. Nor do I know of Oxbridge schmoozing UK schools. They get way more applications than places. All their efforts are being directed to outreach to encourage disadvantaged pupils to apply.
There is more information than ever available to prospective applicants, plus summer schools and open days etc. Interviews are nothing like the myths would suggest. I'm not saying it's easy and there is still far too much of the "it's not for the likes of us" attitude from some schools and families, but if you are passionate about your subject and able to carry out on line research you can apply. The old boys network really isn't what it was.
Never heard of the so called "market for intermediation between applicants and universities". Likewise "the advice that other applicants (your competitors) will be accessing through multiple channels and that you need to do your homework early and to seek out people who can help you".

[PCohle]

Cambridge's new policies to improve access are literally on the front page of the times today.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Here you go

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/beat-a-level-predictions-and-get-second-chance-at-cambridge-phjs7zh8n?shareToken=c1ee3b38f73cf04f30f7f2a011c4b9d4

[MariaNovella]

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/26/oxford-and-cambridge-universities-fail-to-expand-uk-student-numbers

[PCohle]

But today's announcement is a direct response to the issues raised in the Guardian article re disadvantaged UK students.

I'm not sure what your point is? Surely this is evidence of the fact that Cambridge recognises the difficulties facing some applicants and is trying to address them?

I think this announcement reflects the fact that many pupils lack the confidence to apply to Oxbridge. Telling them that other applicants are all paying for advice from consultants surely only adds to that.

[MariaNovella]

I think it’s emergency PR ;)

[MariaNovella]

Telling them that other applicants are all paying for advice from consultants surely only adds to that.

Why would you lie about the fact that many applicants get huge amounts of help (from diverse sources)?

[PCohle]

So Oxbridge aren't doing enough to improve access and when they ascertainably are doing something it's just PR? And you have no agenda whatsoever?

Yes many students receive help - from schools, parents, free online resources or the universities themselves. Claiming that many successful applicants pay private consultancies is arrant nonsense.

[MariaNovella]

The Guardian was pretty appalling PR for Oxbridge vis-à-vis its UK base - let’s face facts here. I have every sympathy with Oxbridge and the inherent tension between educating UK students and competing internationally. It’s a real tightrope.

[SilentSister]

Why would you lie about the fact that many applicants get huge amounts of help (from diverse sources)?

It is not a lie, we just don't recognise what you are implying MariaNovella

The Oxbridge applicants I have known are all very independent, self starters, with huge amounts of commitment to their subject. None of them had "assistance" to get their places.

[IrmaFayLear]

I think everyone needs some help - but you don't need to pay for it. I think the "Ask an Admissions Person" threads on The Student Room were excellent. Real information from the real horse's mouth. The important thing is actually to take notice of the information out there. Yes, it's tough that some private schools bring in a team for "personal statement week" (mentioned a couple of years ago by a MNetter) who "assist" with the statements. But a less privileged applicant can find examples of personal statements galore on the internet. All is not lost because you go to CrapComp.

Unsuccessful candidates (and their parents!) want to find injustice and bias (whether that's towards private pupils or state school ones) and refuse to accept any evidence to the contrary.

[MariaNovella]

Individual applicants (and their parents) can gather data and work out strategies for sure. Where I think it can be very difficult is when gatekeepers (schools) are far less well informed than applicants and do not rise to the occasion.

[goodbyestranger]

I bet more kids using these ridiculous and pricey consultants fail to get a place than the vast, vast, vast majority who don't.

[MariaNovella]

When your school does a reasonable (not even briliant) job of assisting with transition to HE it can be hard to conceive of what it is like to be at a school that is rubbish or even obstructive. Consultants exist to bridge that gulf.

[goodbyestranger]

I know schools which are very, very poor at that job but they aren't the schools with the cash to pay pricey consultants and their students tend to not have spare cash in the family either. It just sounds like a massive con, with the target market presumably being rich kids who are borderline or no hope applicants but whose parents have more money and vicarious ambition than sense.

[MariaNovella]

It is, without a shred of a doubt, an unregulated market. There are no meaningful training programmes or qualifications for university guidance counsellors in Europe (I understand that it’s a little different in the US), admissions staff, education agents etc and yet the market demand is huge and of course you will always find people to respond to lucrative market demand.

However, just as much as there are incompetents and cowboys working in that space, there are plenty of knowledgeable people/companies with their clients’ best interests at heart. When schools do not have their students’ best interests at heart, external advisors can make a huge difference.