Final year - drop out?

[Thebluehen]

My son is in his final year at Nottingham doing a Maths degree.

He did well in his first year mostly helped by his A* grades at A level he suspects.

The second year he did really badly in, was miserable, buried his head in the sand about getting help and support and consequently failed a lot of his exams and then got even worse marks in his resits.

He failed the year but got an average of around 45% so apparently he was "allowed" back to go on to year 3.

He is now mid January exams and he is telling me after each exam how much he hates it and wants to leave.

Getting a Maths degree from Nottingham was his dream since he was 13 when he put the uni prospectus on his wall.

I get the impression that the uni don't want to help unless he sees his GP and says he is depressed. He is refusing to do this and honestly, I don't think he is depressed but I do feel he needs a bit of nurturing and huge impersonal lectures and being "left to it" aren't suiting him.

I think he is just miserable and every failure knocks his confidence a bit more.

I didn't go to uni myself, so I don't really know what he should do and have to trust what he is telling me as a grown man but I suspect he has not put as much effort in as he could do and I also suspect that as a quiet, shy person, he has not asked for much help and has fallen off the radar a bit.

I really don't know what to advise him.

[RandomUsernameHere]

I think I've heard of people getting some sort of diploma if they don't get enough marks for a Third, but I've also heard of people leaving with nothing if they didn't achieve a Third. This was all quite a few years ago though. I expect it varies between courses and universities, I'm sure you can find out exactly what the situation is. I hope everything works out for your son.

[MarchingFrogs]

Is there any possibility of leaving with a HND for having completed the first two years? This information would be in his course handbook - I know that it is possible for at least some courses at some universities (and not just the non RG variety, before this is suggested). This would give him a qualification now, albeit not a degree level one, but would leave the possibility of starting again with a top-up degree, in which he could do better than third class homours or just a pass, at a later date.
www.derby.ac.uk/online/course/accounting-finance-ba-top-up-degree-online-course
(This is just an example I found at random, other subjects and providers are available).

[topology444]

Just sitting the exams won't be enough. He needs to pass sufficiently many modules. With motivation and help he can still learn enough to pass the exams as there will be always (parts of) questions that are not that hard. Identifying these parts and for example writing down a definition correclty if you are not understanding the concept and/or the mathematical language is not easy though. It will be hard work though and perhaps not very satisfying as it is really more a matter of passing the exam than to understand/enjoying the subject. If you can afford it ask a tutor to suggest a PhD student to help him with homework/past exams. This way he is not isolated and may even enjoy the times he meets the student and work in between meetings.

[maryso]

For a subject like maths, topology444 has good advice. Struggling in 2nd year in degree maths is a pretty clear signal that a major and probably painful change in approach is essential and even then there is no guarantee of success. Getting the 60%+ from 45% is a big ask even with a combination of serious coaching and the easiest electives.

He could look at (if possible) taking a break and using that time to raise his game (with help if needed), so he can start 3rd year at a good place as well as choosing electives wisely. He could switch to a numerate subject (eg economics or finance, engineering, physics) that would make sense for what he wishes to do after university, however all these would need some self-funding.

I would say that most importantly, if he doesn't already know, this is not unusual for degree maths, and provided he works out whether he's in the 're-learn how to do maths' or 'fly high elsewhere' camp, a rosy future is within reach. Quite possibly his 2nd year electives were not his cup of tea. There is usually a mass exodus into finance and statistics after year 1 when many students find pure and some applied areas are a literally more of an alien language that say the maths of finance or engineering. Some of the most 'alien' electives can be couched in deceptively simple and fun terms, and class numbers will be small making it an even lonelier business. So he is definitely not alone in where he is, but he does need to decide how to go somewhere better.

[Thebluehen]

Thank you all for the advice.

My son is going to register and make an appointment with the gp at uni. His sleep routine is really poor and we talked about whether this could be a symptom of depression.

He's also got an appointment with his tutor and he's said he is going to ask for details of PhD students that might be able to help.

I feel the above are steps in the right direction.

[justasking111]

My DS had a brilliant tutor who contacted us to say he was going to fail beginning of third year, (girlfriend problems which we knew nothing about) his solution was a year out in industry. DS did that then went back into halls the following year to complete final year and flew through the course getting honours. DS said being out in the world working sorted his head out.

[SarahAndQuack]

Poor him. I think he's doing the exact right things now. But, I just wanted to say - my older brother did a Maths degree and I remember him also finding that year 1 went easily because he was leaning on good A Levels, year 2 was a bit tougher, and year 3 felt really unpleasant. My brother's now an academic teaching maths! But I remember at the time he felt really down. So I wonder if maybe maths degrees tend to have that sort of pattern to them?