Applying to Oxford with ‘bad’ a levels?

[claptrapwrap]

DS has his heart set on Oxford to study history, so much so he’s taken a gap year for the chance. He’s applied to Balliol.

He went to a bad local comprehensive where he was consistantly top of the class. For his GCSEs he got 7A* and 6As.

At A level he studied History, Geography and English Literature, gaining only AAA. We are immensely proud, but this doesn’t seem Oxford standard reading threads here and on student room.

Shall I prepare him for the big fat no?

[goodbyestranger]

In other words I'm with Hingle and mateysmum. Just read what interests you and be genuine.

[goodbyestranger]

NellyBarney to my mind all he'd demonstrate is a craven level of fanboyism.

[mateysmum]

OP any update?

Hingle, I'm with you. Reading and toadying the tutor's work is irrelevant unless it genuinely is you area of interest.
After my first year, I don't think I had any tutorials in my own college and only ever had one term with the tutor who interviewed me.
I have always believed that what got me a place (apart from my all round brilliance of course!) was that I had read a book about the English Civil War - Christopher Hill's "The world turned upside down". It was a subject that did and still fascinates me - the splintering of society and the role played by the gentry in the civil war.
This was in the days of the Oxford entry exam though, after which my A level offer was 2 Es.

[fluffycatinahat]

*Shall I prepare him for the big fat no?
*
I wouldn't do this OP. Even though it's with the best intentions.

He needs to hear you believe in him 100%, if it doesn't work out you can take a firm "their loss" stance later and big up the next choice.

If he gets an interview you want him to go in believing he has plenty to offer & deserves a place so his enthusiasm can shine through

If he gets a place you want him to feel he belongs there not that he was in some way lucky to get in

Be his main cheerleader and tell him it's important to chase dreams. Maybe if there's stiff competition it won't always go our way but give it 100%.

[Ontopofthesunset]

I don't think DS would understand most of the books written by most college tutors yet. He's still only half way through his A-levels and the college tutors' books are mostly written on quite abstruse detailed areas of study that are way beyond what he is studying now. It was a long time ago, but when I applied, I found out what the areas of interest of the tutors were, but I certainly didn't read their books. They didn't ask me anything about their areas of study anyway - they were more interested in why I wanted to study the subject.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Make him, make him, gently suggesting, make him... one of these things is not like the other...

[NellyBarney]

Blimey, Hingle, I hope OP has a better sense of humour. Of course I dont think any parent could or should force their dc to do anything. But gently suggesting that dc might engage with the research of their potential future tutors and choosing a college/university based on some understanding and genuine interest in their main areas of research is surely good advice, and I am someone who has done research both at Oxbridge and Ivy League universities. Having some knowledge of the admission (and his fellow) tutors research interests can only help. It's the same when you apply for a job. You would do some research on the companty/institution and would ideally be able to say why exactly you would like to work there or what you find expiring about the place. The OPs son has to set himself apart in a very competitive field. He will have to compete with kids who are drilled to perform perfectly at interview, coming across as assured, polite, educated and clever. If he comes across as having a genuine interest in the research that goes on in this particular place, not just liking the reputation, nice buildings etc, he would set himself apart positively. Also if he managed to have read some niche publications by his tutors and understood them and was able to talk about them, he would demonstrate that he is able of the work expected of him.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

NellyBarney - I’m sure we’re all for independence of thought for our kids on these forums... there’s a lot of ‘make him’s’ in the short span of your advice! I’d probably contradict all of it - unless your tutor is a 60 year old undisputed leader in the field, whatever they’ve published is likely to be relatively niche, so to go in complimenting them on their publications is going to come over as really toadying, no?

I’d stick with the slightly more generic ‘this is what interests me about the subject, and look at how I can engage with your questions in a relatively intelligent manner’ technique, but I’m pretty vanilla like that!

[NellyBarney]

Which college did he apply to? Make him read the books published by the college tutors. Make him say he wants to study with x at the college because he is really interested in his thesis. Make him compliment the tutor who interviews him on his work.

[IrmaFayLear]

I was under the impression that your results had to exceed the standard offer if you were applying with A Levels in hand. Of course anyone can apply with any results, but to be in with a chance I would have thought you'd need to Simon Schama the HAT test.

[BubblesBuddy]

You may be at a disadvantage if 90% of the intake have an A* and you don’t. It would depend if that stat holds true for History. Also AAA is the minimum. It isn’t necessarily the A level grades the students actually possess.

[goodbyestranger]

UCL has gone down to AAA? Oh well, I stand corrected!

[FordPerfect]

UCL for History is AAA - standard offer

[FordPerfect]

I have just taken a quick look for Durham History and it is A*AA.

[wurzelburga]

@goodbye - pretty sure that the standard history offer from Durham and UCL IS AAA. One of my DC -who would definitely not have been flagged - was offered that by both this year.

[Tropicalfish]

Hi, I see he has applied already. My DC also applied post results and just had the minimum grades for A2 plus one more A at a level. They got an offer so you never know your luck.

[Tropicalfish]

Presumably he has already applied. The closing date was today.

[RedHelenB]

But the offer is AAA for History and he's met that so I can't see h8m being at a disadvantage.

[BubblesBuddy]

Not wishing to deter him, but the latest stats from Oxford say that 90% of those admitted on all courses had A*AA at A level or above. So don’t be disappointed if it’s a no. I’ve no doubt that scoring highly in the HAT and getting an interview and shining could tip the balance. Hope it goes well.

[goodbyestranger]

wurzel I'm not sure Durham and UCL for History are in the bag without knowing for sure where the school is on the spectrum of attainment. Those two don't dish out offers for History at AAA just like that, since their standard offer is higher.

[LoniceraJaponica]

DD's boyfriend got an AAA offer from Oxford, with much less stellar GCSEs. In fact he only achieved one A*. The rest were As and Bs.

However, his submitted work, HAT test and interviews went extremely well.

In the end he got ABB and ended up elsewhere through clearing.

[wurzelburga]

Standard offer for history is AAA, so he meets that.

With those grades he is going to get unconditional offers from other top Universities - Durham, UCL, St Andrew’s etc so he would be silly not to try for Oxford if that is where he wants to go.

He should be working hard at past history aptitude tests, ideally with an experienced tutor. If that is not possible there are a number of model answers available on the Oxford admissions sites. History is massively over subscribed with students predicted three As or more so the HAT score is what will make his application stand out.

Has he entered any history essay competition? eg Julia Wood. Not sure if it is open to gap years but a good performance would help.

My DC have always said it is easier to get an offer in U6 on the back of predicted grades. Most gap year applicants usually have an A* in the subject they wish to study. But if your DS is applying from a school which does not normally have students getting As at A level, that will help his application. So too will any other flag...post code, BME etc. What kind of reference will he get from his school?

As with all Oxbridge applicants it is always sensible to be realistic. Applications outnumber offers. But nobody ever got an offer without applying. I know DC who had their hearts set on Oxbridge and ended up elsewhere. They have all done well in the end. So will your DS.

[mateysmum]

AAA is a standard offer for History at Oxford.

So please don't deter your DS. His results look fine for an application.

However..... it is not the whole story. The HAT test and submitted work is just as important as it tests different thinking skills and will determine who gets an interview. Once at interview, his reading around his subject outside of the A level curriculum and ability to answer questions appropriately are key. So during his year off he should be reading lots and hopefully has put relevant info on this in his personal statement.

[Hollybollybingbong]

Dd's friend got into Oxford this year with either A*AB or AAB, I remember the B but bit the test. DD is applying to Cambridge for English and the ELAT is essential, they offer a link to previous papers. Get DS to find relevant past papers and practice, practice practice!
Best of luck.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

ifonly4 - I do not wish to gainsay you, but I have to say that advice you received was very unusual. Most times that this crops up, the advice on extra-curriculars that are not related to your choice of degree is that they make not a jot of difference. (I speak only of Oxbridge in this regard - although I put nothing in about extra-curriculars in my PS and got offers from other unis, so it didn't appear to hamper me. Again - it's only an anecdote, I can't pretend to speak for the attitude of other universities.)

To goodbyestranger's point, in conversation with my tutor at our end of degree lunch, he guffawed at the idea that interviewers care about an applicant's interest in music, or sport, or any signs of having a rich and varied personal life outside academia. It's your ability to engage with the material that is going to earn you points at interview (and indeed at UCAS application stage I guess).