DD suddenly doesn't want to take her Oxbridge place

[brentlondon]

She has always really wanted a place at Oxbridge. Now that she took a gap year and applied she accepted an unconditional to Oxford.

She received a long reading list the other day. She's suddenly "freaking out" about what she's signed herself up for and the amount of work she'll have to do.

Even though the course isn't the same or as good in my opinion she thinks she should've taken her place at Bristol; a city which she loves and has lots of friends in.

I think she's just realised how much work she has. Surely Oxbridge students have fun too, right?

It's as if now she has proved herself she's realised what she really wants is a fun few years. Shall I advise her to think it over until August and then if she's still completely certain then to contact Bristol through clearing. (her course was in clearing for the last few years)

It would be such a shame as we all think the Oxbridge environment would suit her.

Anyone else's child turned a wobbly?

[horsemadmom]

Just about to take DD back to Oxford so quick reply. Don't panic! Nobody gets through the reading list. Nobody. Don't stress about it and she should do what interests her. Does she have her first essay topic? If yes, read around that. DD went clubbing 4 nights a week in 1st year and went to all the bops and does loads of activities and still manages to sleep and watch crap tv on her laptop.
Tell DD that sometimes when Oxbridge people moan about how relentless the work is, they are the equivalent of drunk squaring up at the pub and showing off how 'well 'ard' they are. Or, to put it in an adult perspective, they aren't even working 40 hours a week but will do (or more) for the 35 years after uni.

[Tropicalfish]

My DC did a gap year before going to Oxford and it does make it more stressful as you don't remember everything that you need to know when you get there but you manage. The work load is insane and will definitely be much less at another uni. Did your dd meet any of the students doing her subject at her college. The collegiate and tutorial system means that it really helps if those students are pleasant and likeable. In my DC's case this is true however this is not always the case, you can end up with Uber competitive fellow students who will try and belittle you in tutorials. Another thing is the terms are so short that it won't feel the same as going elsewhere.
Having said all of this, my DC doesn't regret going at all and absolutely relishes the academic side and feels going anywhere else wouldn't present the same challenge. She likes the fact that everyone works very hard and thinks if she had gone elsewhere than this might not be the case. The big nights for going out in Oxford are wed and Thurs. Other than that, it would be normal to be studying. I think it really helps if you love your subject. There are exams at the start of every term.

[Etymology23]

It’s the Easter holidays/term will be about to start: I strongly doubt the bar was packed on a Friday night at this time of year.

I love the friends I made a Cambridge and I had an amazing time in lots of ways - I certainly had plenty of fun - I was on the College SU committee, did the tech for bops and the odd stage for a May ball, musicals, coxed and more. But it was really quite stressful. It will depend what subject she is taking. I did natural sciences and I certainly wasn’t lying when I said it was hard work. I used to work 9-9 6 days a week in first year (working through lunch, half an hour for dinner), and then maybe 10-6 on a Sunday. I was doing NatSci though, which is pretty renowned for being brutal. Second year I had cut down to about 9-7, and used to take sundays off, so I had more time for extra curriculars then. I was working for a 2:1. Some people were working less than that for other subjects though - maybe 40 ish hours a week?

We used to say that you can have 2 out 3 from friends, good results and enough sleep!

There are plenty of people out there who go clubbing and get in at 3 and then are up for their 9am lecture.

The good thing is that 1st and 2nd year have no impact on your degree classification so you can afford to slack off then if you want.

You can’t really ever read everything on a reading list: in 3rd year I used to get given 8-10 papers to read per lecture: at about an hour per paper that would have been 48-60hrs a week of reading, plus 6 lectures (waaay more minimal than other years) plus 20hrs lab work, plus weekly essays (say 10hrs week?) , plus supervision (2 hrs a week) plus other coursework (5hrs a week?) plus applying for jobs. That would have been 95hrs a week plus job applications!

Ultimately I just couldn’t do all that so read about 1 per lecture instead! Barely scraped my 2i though.

I think as long as you can believe in yourself it can be a great place - you learn more than you ever thought possible and make great friends, but you do have to detach your sense of self from your academic accomplishments or it can be quite bad for you. There are issues with mental health problems, certainly at Cambridge.

[TonTonMacoute]

Agree with others about not having to read everything on the reading list, but I do think that to get the most out of Oxbridge you really have to be the sort of student who loves studying for its own sake.

People get so wrapped up with the idea that going to Oxbridge is such a privilege, and gives people such an advantage, they sometimes forget that the reason so many graduates do well later is because they are used to working extremely hard.

Having said that, they clearly think that your DD has what it takes, Oxford is also a great city to be a student, and she will make new friends.

If she has only just got the list then it is still early days, too soon to make a decision. Most places have Facebook groups for new students, perhaps get her to join one for her college and get a bit more of a feel for it.

[goodbyestranger]

Iflyaway your comment or are you more hung up on being able to boast to all and sundry is completely unnecessary and typical of the snippy MN attitude to posters who have DC at Oxbridge. Jeez. OP did and said nothing to suggest she's anything other than concerned about her DD missing an opportunity. Very unpleasant (but as I say, typical).

OP I've had loads of DC at Oxford recently (yes loads Iflyaway!). Some are still there. It's a great place and a great uni experience. Mine have been very lucky to have had that sort of teaching in that sort of environment. They've done a variety of degrees including science, social science and humanities. I've no idea about long reading lists at Bristol only about Oxford ones, which can look daunting. Only posters with DC at both Bristol and Oxford/ Cambridge doing the same subject can know how the reading lists compare but clearly others are in this position.

There is a lot of work and it's pressured but it's clearly manageable in every subject since the overwhelming majority of students complete their degrees. There's also masses of opportunity for fun, incl very normal drinking, partying, clubbing type fun, judging by my own DC and their friends, they just have to learn how to balance work and fun without going under. Some learn that faster than others but it's very important not to get bogged down, especially early on. The general culture of work hard play hard helps. Everyone is in the same boat and understands the pressure.

I suppose the only warning note I might sound is that your DD's tutor sounds super keen issuing a reading list this early. It's only April! Most of my DC didn't get anything until much later - these lists are very tutor dependent and the speed with which they arrive tends to reflect on the energy/ lassitude of the tutor. I myself prefer the more laid back type, but no doubt there's something to be said for energy.... unless the tutor is a ridiculously hard task master. Presumably your DD has met the tutor in question so has got their measure.

It would be a shame to pass up on the opportunity, I would expect it's just momentary cold feet.

[KatherinaMinola]

Nobody gets through the reading list. Nobody.

Yep. I got through about a quarter. Most people had blithely ignored it.

[Mathbat]

To those people saying “nobody reads the entire reading list”....My tutor set new undergraduates a test in 0th weeks to check that they had indeed read the entire reading list (English Lit).

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

What subject?

[ScattyCharly]

If she is extremeky bright, resilient and her mental health has always been good, then encourage her to take up this opportunity. In this case, it would probably just be nerves. Also, there is plenty of time to plough through the reading list. If it’s english she could maybe source audio books to make it less of an intimidating task.

Hiowever oxbridge isn’t for everyone. Not everyone thrives there. Undergraduates commit suicide, through fear of failure and extreme pressure. This also happens at Bristol and UWE, but I think the reasons for the suicide would be slightly different (depression and lack of mental health help as opposed to pure/severe academic pressure).

I think have an in depth chat with her about it and find out exactly what her reservations are. Girls more than boys can suffer from lack of confidence. So maybe it’s that.

[goodbyestranger]

Agree about learning to read at pace/ skim reading but that's an art to be acquired so not much help for OP's DD at the moment.

I'm another one who's less sure that freshers go up only having dabbled in the reading list. Mine got theirs later (August/ September) but as far as I know they were all expected to have read what they were set. I don't think it was an 'if you're interested' type of thing, more a 'do this by the time you come up it's necessary background reading'.

[TheRagingGirl]

It's panic, particularly after a year off the formal education treadmill
(a very good thing to do, by the way).

IME, Oxford students work very hard, and play very hard. The terms are only 8 weeks, and they pack a lot in. But they'll start relatively slowly and she'll find her feet.

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

Dh and I read history at Oxford and Cambridge and I can honestly say that I don't think either of us really worked that hard. I went to a couple of lectures a week and churned out a weekly essay in three days - two days to read whatever I could manage of the reading list (never, ever all of it) and one day to write. Tutorial on the fourth day and the rest of the week for fun! Dh did similar. My memories of uni revolve around long afternoons in the pub or drinking outside, a lot of amateur theatre, May balls, punting... it was so much fun and I didn't let work get in the way. Dh's memories of Oxford are the same if you replace amateur theatre with football! A few weeks of the summer term before exams I would work 5/6 days a week but that's all. We both walked away with good 2:1s and job offers at a great City law firm... neither of us are more than reasonably bright either! I don't think that we worked that much harder than anyone else doing an arts subject at a top 20 uni. And I think Oxbridge is often treated as being more different than it is. Also, your dd wouldn't have been offered a place if they didn't think she was good enough! They are usually right about who will do well... pretty low drop out rates! And the collegiate system is good with pastoral care.

[Sarkyharky]

Dh and I read history at Oxford and Cambridge and I can honestly say that I don't think either of us really worked that hard

I read English at Cambridge and I did work hard but not awfully so. But I think it's changed in the last 35 years!

[Needmoresleep]

Sarkyharky, exactly.

Neither of my DC went to Oxbridge, though 50% of their school cohort did. A surprising number took a while to settle at whatever University they went to. This applied to Oxbridge, as well as anywhere else, with different people being unhappy for different reasons. The school would have supported DD applying, but she chose to go to Bristol for perhaps the same reasons as OP's DD is wobbling.

Strictly observational, but many Oxbridge students work very very hard indeed. Short terms, ambitious achieving students. Some will have scope to work hard play hard, but there will also be plenty who really need to spend the short terms, and their Christmas and Easter holidays, working. This is not a bad thing if you really enjoy your subject. You will be surrounded by others: academics and fellow students, who are the same. (London was similar for DS. A huge success as it was a chance to immerse himself in his subject, be part of a friendly hard working group, and be exposed to ideas from all over the world.)

It depends on what you want from University. Bristol has expanded significantly in the past few years, and also give out a lot of contextual offers, including to pupils of poor performing private schools. I don't know if this is adding to existing strains on their welfare services and academic standards, but, as suggested above, there are issues.

I know others will come along to disagree, but I am not sure Bristol is the right place if you are very immersed in your subject, and are seeking your intellectual tribe. But it might be if you want a decent balance between academics and social. I also assume there is a big difference between a pretty relaxed first year (DD knows people who seem to have managed not to attend any teaching at all for months - something that would be near impossible at Oxbridge/London) and subsequent years.

[PinguDance]

Echoing other posters; I'd keep in touch with her about how she is feeling about Oxford if she goes- it can give people a seriously hard time, even those who seem to be very suitable.

[Dozer]

At school was she a perfectionist? Any health issues?

Is she actually still keen to do her chosen subject(s)?

Any degree she starts will be a shitload of work, on top of adjusting to more independence, social stuff etc. But I guess some universities may be more pressured due to expectations, peer groups and so on.

[PinguDance]

Also, I turned down my Oxford place as did a friend. I realised I couldn't be bothered with it but had wanted to get in - I liked the offer but wasn't willing to do the hard graft! My friend did it kind of on principle and went to London instead for the social scene - he is now a post grad at Oxford and glad he didn't go for his first degree. It was the right decision for me too; some of my friends did well at Oxbridge, others had a bloody awful time, I'm pretty sure I'd have been in the latter category.

Basically I wouldn't say you should completely dismiss her concerns but try and rationalise why she doesn't want to go? Discuss how she would deal with any problems that arose etc.
Hope she feels confident about whatever decisions she makes!

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

I read English at Cambridge and I did work hard but not awfully so. But I think it's changed in the last 35 years!

I left in 2006, so a while ago. But I was looking at the history course when one of dh's cousins was going up and nothing much seems to have changed. Even the reading lists were the same!

I think it depends what you see as hard work! To me, 25 to 30 hours a week of reading books and writing 2000 words isn't hard work at all. But others may see it differently!

[PreemptiveFartSquats]

@Needmoresleep

Bristol has expanded significantly in the past few years, and also give out a lot of contextual offers, including to pupils of poor performing private schools.

Just checking - is this a typo?

[Needmoresleep]

It was certainly the case a couple of years ago that they gave contextual offers to the 40% lowest performing schools. Their list then included the school attended by Brooklyn Beckham. Hardly deprived. (But did not include our local state school even though it boasted 93% FSM in Yr 11.)

I will look up their current list. Anecdotally I understand that this policy does encourage applications from middle-class kids attending mixed ability schools.

[Needmoresleep]

Current list www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/English-aspiring-state-schools-2018-cycle.pdf and this is the policy www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

I did not spot any private schools this time, but there may be some, as Bristol simply say the 40% lowest performing schools.

[PreemptiveFartSquats]

@Needmoresleep - interesting (and bizzare). Thanks.

[BubblesBuddy]

The fact Bristol do this bottom 40% list is encouraging in my view. I cannot see any Private schools on it. Some private schools do educate lower achievers though. The listed schools are not all in deprived areas. The list is nuanced towards type of school or college too. For example the secondary modern schools that serve Gerrards Cross, The Chalfonts and Amersham in Bucks are on it. Hardly deprived areas but these are not the grammar schools and clearly have a middle/lower achieving cohort of pupils to reduce results overall. So it’s fair they are on the list, despite middle class children attending them.

Regarding the op’s concerns, young people can have serious wobbles about Oxford. We have the T shirt in our house! However, there is time to talk it through and come to the best conclusion for your DD. Outcomes won’t necessarily vary from one university to the other. A lot of the future will be down to her personality, ability to get the experience for a job and go for it - Oxford or Bristol won’t harm career prospects.

[Needmoresleep]

I am not objecting to the Bristol policy. But an individual student might consider:

1. the extent to which their subject has expanded in recent years. In some subjects expansion has been quite marked with suggestions of growing pains.
   

1. will contextual offers impact on the base level for technical skills, eg for English that might be prior ability to/experience of structuring essays, analysis and arguments.
   

1. how are those who are admitted, then supported. Observation is that some will find the first term or two hard going, and possibly become disheartened. The Sutton Trust's report on contextualisaiton, confirms that many at Bristol are simply mainstreamed, and one of its overall recommendations is that Universities provide more support.
   

What impact that might have on other high ability students, and their aspirations. In some subjects students on contextual offers will catch up quite fast, not least it appears that there is little evidence that as a group they will be of lower ability than the rest of their cohort. Or for some courses it makes relatively little difference what grades other students enter on. Or perhaps a student's aspirations will be equally well served by a degree from Bristol as from Oxford, or they feel more comfortable towards the top of the cohort. Equally though some strong students will be wary that Bristol will be less able to cover the same ground as, say, London. (DS received an offer from Bristol but was put off by the fact that in his year they were taking a lot more students and had reduced entry requirements. In retrospect this was the right decision as the subsequent steps he has taken have relied on him having a high level of maths. Ditto we know of someone studying a humanity who transferred to London after their first year. Conversly we know someone sitting on a Cambridge offer who feels Bristol will suit her better. She is very bright, but not that into her subject. A slightly less frenetic pace will allow her to engage more in University life.)

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Whenever I read about a science student's experience of Oxbridge, I want to kill myself. Etymology that honestly sounds horrific. My experience was closer to Lorelai's, with two essays a week to get through, and some light language work.

Oxbridge students have plenty of fun - my course was structured so that 3 out of the 4 summers I was there, I had no exams. Heavenly.

brentlondon, if it is something she has always wanted, then I'm with the other posters who have recommended just being there for her and talking to her. October is a long way off, so there is plenty of time to re-acclimatise to an academic setting, after a year or more of working/travelling/whateverring. She'll work out what's best for her in the end.

Speaking only for myself, she's done the hard work and got the place, why not at least see what it's all about? If she doesn't like it, leave after the first term; plenty of people do.