What are the pros and cons of General Engineering vs one discipline?

[ErrolTheDragon]

I'm trying to understand why a few (good!) unis do General Engineering MEng instead of offering separate EEE, Civil, Mechanical etc. EEE alone seems like a very broad subject nowadays - so, how can a GE course avoid being a bit 'jack of all trades and master of none'? I guess if someone wants to go into some sort of financial or general management type role after graduation it might make sense, but for anyone who wants to end up as an actual engineer I can't see how it could.

(I'm a scientist rather than an engineer myself

[potatomama]

I nearly applied to Cambridge (about 10 years ago...) but went with another Russell Group uni in the end as their Civil Eng course was actually considered better. Oxbridge can prepare you well for a life in academia but often falls down on practical skills.

I work with a lot of electrical engineers now, and having no electrical knowledge beyond a GCSE hasn't held me back from understanding whats going on.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Thanks again for more insights!

Hellsbells, today is the Sheffield open day so no prizes for guessing where DD is! we're in the NW so it's one of the nearest but she's not too bothered about distance.

[hellsbells99]

Hope he enjoys it!
Leeds was a great campus too.

[hellsbells99]

Sorry 'she' - typo!

[PinkFondantFancy]

Er sorry not sure exactly how I'm talking bollocks. Unless you're an engineer that's studied done a delayed specialisation yourself?? Given there's only 3(ish) that do general first and Oxbridge are 2 of them, think I'm pretty well positioned to comment....

• "Cambridge doesn't give you as much depth as other degrees" = bollocks. It does, it gives you breadth in addition. Not instead. This is very helpful, engineers don't work in a vacuum.
  

"Cambridge won't give you enough practical skills" = bollocks.

Honestly, just go to some open days and choose somewhere you she likes. If she's good enough for Cambridge she'd be insane to not give it a chance in my opinion. There's lots of other good unis so if on balance she prefers them, go for it. But don't do it because of a mistaken idea that an engineering degree from Cambridge/Durham/Oxford will hold her back because nothing could be further from the truth. I know tens of engineers from my course, all different specialisations, all very successful in their own careers. I'm not aware of any that have struggled to find work because their degrees weren't in depth or practical enough.

[PinkFondantFancy]

greensand that's exactly it, Cambridge engineers come out as one specialism. Same with Oxford and Durham. I'd agree with others that if it doesn't ever specialise then probably not in depth enough but that's not the case with those that you mention.

OP you say it doesn't add up, it does, you just work bloody hard. Poss another reason to go specialist if that's how she's thinking - working your arse off on subjects that aren't interesting to you might not be much fun

[senua]

Can I just throw in a warning. Get her to speak to current students or recent graduates because I have heard tales of applicants being misled. At Open Days they are shown all the cutting edge technology and given the impression that they will get to play with it. Then they find out that most of the time it is pimped out to industry used by others and they seldom get a look-in.
Find out how often the students actually get anywhere near the fancy kit.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Pink - thanks, it's great to have the perspective of people with experience of both approaches. I appreciate everyone taking the time... Especially as it's really a competition of positives!

Senua - good point, one we're well aware of (we did PhDs and know that undergrads don't get to play with the coolest kit) but others reading the thread might not. It's the sort of question we do ask when they show the research labs, usually the answer is that if you do particular 4th year projects you might use some of it. So yes, the lightening generator or cleanrooms or whatever may be impressive but it's the teaching labs (if you even get to see them) are more relevant.

[jeanne16]

An interesting thread as my DS is also debating this issue. As far as I can see, the unis that offer GE ( Oxford, Cambridge, Durham and Warwick) are top unis that will offer excellent, accredited engineering degrees. I think this is done by the sheer volume of work they have to do. Whatever anyone here says, Oxbridge opens doors that others do not! Basically if you are lucky enough to be offered a place, you would be crazy to turn it down..

Having said that, if you really know which engineering you want to do, then you can do very well at one of the other unis such as Imperial etc. Unfortunately Imperial seems to make very little effort to make itself attractive.

[hellsbells99]

Oxbridge isn't for everyone. There are certainly other good options for engineering (and outside of London 😉)

[jeanne16]

Warwick hasn't been mentioned much. It also offer a GE degree. Any views on this?

[ErrolTheDragon]

Jeanne - yes,,, though the workload at eg Southampton didn't look like a doss either ... I don't think any good science or eng degrees are.

I'd guess imperial doesn't really need to sell itself - I believe it's one of the few places that has sufficient excess of applicants who are sure of making the a level grades that they have to interview. I'd guess that if you live in London or want (and can afford) to live there it tops a lot of candidates lists.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Jeanne - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the the options at Warwick allow for 'deferred specialism' in Electronics (with IET accreditation) but not electronic and electrical. (I may have got this wrong, there's some reason it's not on DDs list, and that's one of her criteria)

[errorofjudgement]

My DS has just finished his 3rd year at Warwick on the GE course. He has specialised in a particular type of mechanical engineering which will be reflected on his degree & he is one of only 2 students with this particular combination.
They work closely with WMG (Warwick Manufacturing Group) & the lecturers DS has are really good.
From what I remember in the literature, Warwick makes the point that because you can specialise in a range of topics, then the graduate numbers by specialisation, are too small to be included in the specialised tables.
DS is loving Warwick, there is s mix of those who are "genuine" engineers, & those taking the engineering degree as a stepping stone to graduate business roles.
In contrast though, aerospace engineering does seem to require you to specialise from day 1, & was the reason DS1 ruled out the general engineering courses.

[jeanne16]

Errorof- thanks for this. On a separate note, has your DS found accommodation at Warwick ok? Where do they all live after 1st year?

[bojorojo]

Jeanne16. I think lots live in Leamington Spa for yr 2 onwards.

[bojorojo]

I meant to add that I think GE does suit people who are not sure what type of engineer they want to be or whether they want to be one at all. Lots of students who are really sure, do want a course that reflects their interest for all four years. Just look at what is studied and decide if the general courses involve studying areas of engineering that are of marginal interest. If the course meets requirements, and MEng courses will, then it is really down to what you prefer. All the top universities offering EEE have superb employment rates.

You cannot always assume the year in industry will be great. A four year full time at university is better if the year in industry is of average quality. I would also ask if they have enough good placements and how competitive it is to get the right one.

[errorofjudgement]

Yes, as Bojorojo says they all move to Leamington :)

[errorofjudgement]

A good year in industry placement can lead to a job offer before you start the final year - so one less concern.
However, DS1 who graduated last Summer did the straight 4 year aerospace degree and got an excellent graduate engineer post that provides all the additional support and training for the Chartered Engineer status. At the Graduation last July, all of DS friends had jobs lined up, and the University was appealing for any that were still looking to come and see them after the ceremony as they had a number of unfilled research roles that they needed graduates for.

[QuackDuckQuack]

Even summer placements can lead to job offers. A full year in industry doesn't have a complete monopoly on job prospects.

[wifeofdoom]

Mechanical engineer here who sometimes recruits engineers (generally grad plus at least 3 or 4 years).no issues with the Oxbridge etc general eng courses - they all specialise at the end so come out with accredited degree and are good routes to charter ship. I did one myself. I would say advantages are not having to specialise too soon (ideal for me, maybe not for your dd), also a good grounding in all disciplines. So I have a grasp of basic electronics and electrical systems that means I can hold my own in a conversation / project. hard work doing something that doesn't come naturally however, which is a minus whilst studying. Oxbridge has definite advantages when looking for jobs (and prob chartership if I'm honest) but isn't for everyone.
Frankly if you are good, interview well and are passionate about your work you won't struggle to get a job with a decent engineering degree - we always struggle to recruit. Industrial experience is great if you get a good placement/ employer not so much if not! And whatever the uni says about its links to industry you will need to put in the legwork if you want a good placement.
Good luck to your dd!

[ErrolTheDragon]

Another round of thanks is due.

[RaisingSteam]

You've had some good comments already. I am chartered in another discipline, I did the Cambridge degree in the days of the 3 year course and an MSc at Imperial.

TBH the Cambridge MEng degree will have a lot of solid EEE packed into years 3 and 4, in fact it was at least a third of years 1 and 2, (to my distaste ). Tended to be less on practical stuff i.e. here is how you turn the handle, but a lot more on first principles. People who have covered that stuff are better grounded for pushing the subject forward in the future.

I'm just about to employ a Cambridge grad for my team not because she has done XX papers and projects in the exact discipline but because she had stand out communication skills as well. i.e. I need someone who can not only do the work but write the bl**dy report too. Rare find these days.

TBH it's probably mostly tradition and the way the degrees and departments are set up. If I had my time again I'd like to think I'd have foregone the punting and May Balls and gone straight to Imperial.
I think the long and short of it is if you have the grades to get into Oxbridge etc then having slightly less formal teaching in your subject won't hold you back in your career. Either option could work fine. Please just don't go and become a banker!

[bojorojo]

My DH finds exactly that, RaisingSteam. Lots of graduates come for interview but so many are short on communication skills and any idea of how a business actually works, never mind being able to solve basic engineering problems (structures). The graduates are sometimes very short on being able to think their way around a problem, even to the extent of designing a steel frame that was too big for the building. Obviously this was discovered before it became a financial disaster, but common sense can be lacking and it does not matter where the degree is from!

Getting Chartered is not down to whether the degree is from Oxbridge or not. It is far more complex than that. My DH was Sheffield (still a top place for Civils) and was Chartered MICE at 24 and had second Chartered status (MIStructE) at 26. This is quite difficult to achieve these days (impossible?) with CPD and 4 year MEng courses, but if a graduate is bright, gets the right CPD and has a job in a top Engineering Company with an excellent graduate engineer programme, then fast track is possible. However, not all jobs are the same which is why graduates should be careful about just going with the year in industry placement. Yes, it is a job, but they may not have the best graduate scheme. In fact, my DH's first employer was dire. He chose a nationally known company and thought it would be ideal. He was wrong.

[ErrolTheDragon]

I'm pretty sure she won't want to be a banker - when asked what she wanted to do in yr 1 she said ' a builder ' - really meaning an engineer, someone who would create things. Dinosaur teacher told her girls couldn't be builders ... Fortunately this served only to embed resistance to gender stereotypes.