Another 'should she firm Bath or Bristol?' thread...

[zazas]

My DD has offers (finally!) from both Bath and Bristol for Economics. Both are the same entry requirements - A*AA so she needs to choose one as her firm.

We have visited both (although only Bristol was an actual Open Day) and there are pros and cons for both...so what else do you recommend that she should consider when choosing between these two?

I am not from the UK and therefore we have no idea of university reputations etc (if they matter?) - so DD is just going on city vs campus, placement year opportunities, sports facilities, student experience plus department visits...but is still no clearer! The courses seem pretty much the same...and rankings are slightly confusing.

Anyone with great insights they would care to share?!

[LittlehamHums]

My dd got fed up with the bus journey every day. She was fine at Stoke Bishop but there are pluses to being closer too. Depends whether your dd is the type to cut it fine with getting to lectures.

The quiet self catering place at Stoke Bishop is called Durdham. The cheaper noisier one is University Hall (small rooms). The more expensive option is Hyatt Baker self catering (big rooms). All close to bus stop.

[bojorojo]

Don't go to Clifton for first year. There are more friends to be made in the Stoke Bishop Halls. If a group of students is out after the bus stops, they share a taxi back. Wills has rooms which share a bathroom is catered but not too pricy. Old fashioned quad accommodation. Not brilliant food but gets the students mixing in the dining hall so has social benefits. Churchill is ok too and all the self catering halls are fine. Some are very sought after though. (Goldney I think). If she is quiet, avoid the halls near the city centre - chosen by the clubbing crew. They can be noisy. Clifton is very favoured for 2nd and 3rd years when students rent houses and flats but look at Stoke Bishop for first year. The bus fares were included in the hall fees.

[LittlehamHums]

I'm assuming she wants university owned accommodation with events, so I'll leave out the Unite and private halls. Don't put Clifton Hill House as that is catered.

That leaves -
Goldney
Manor Hall
Richmond Terrace
The Hawthorns (which is right next to the departments but more quiet)

Goldney and The Hawthorns are massively oversubscribed so if she puts those as her first chose she risks being bumped to the less popular Unite / city centre halls (which are fine but may not match her requirements). Might be worth being a bit strategic over first and second choices. Have a look on the Bristol Accommodation site for details and photos of the halls listed above.

By the way the ones listed above are probably not allowed as a second choice so happy to help with the second choice list if you would like later on.

[Murphy101]

She'd prefer Clifton and self-catering, but doesn't necessarily care about an. ensuite She's on the quieter side but has said she does want to experience her first year.

[LittlehamHums]

Large range of accommodation at Bristol so it depends what she is after. Does she wants to cook or travel? Is she an owl or lark? Does she want an ensuite?

Main differences -

Locations -
Stoke Bishop (lots of halls)
Clifton, Kingsdown and Cotham (all walkable)
City Centre (walkable up a hill) .
There is a free bus from Stoke Bishop halls but it takes 20 minutes approx into the centre.

Size - Big halls (with facilities & events) versus smaller buildings.

Type University accommodation versus private halls or houses.

Meals Catered versus self catered.

Price Massive range

[Murphy101]

My daughter feel in love with Bristol when she went, because for her the course was the most practical. Before she visited she was certain she would accept the offer from Imperial, but all that changed. I had never been to Bristol, but went down there during half-term when she had all her offers and found it a very warm place. It was student friendly and although it is not a campus university it had the feel of one. School shocked she would have chosen it over Imperial, but it was down to the feel on the visit day (facilities and friendliness) she went too and the course. She can't wait--just looking at accommodation now. Any suggestions?

[Coffeewith1sugar]

Echoing last few post on Bristol she will love life there. I can see my DD living there and not coming back when she graduates. There's plenty of opportunity to gain work experience and internships as long as she makes the effort to apply. She sounds like very grounded, forward thinking individual so I can't see any problems there. Good luck with her exams, fingers crossed

[BoboChic]

Fantastic news, zazas. My DSS1 has adored Economics at Bristol and has recently decided to accept an offer from Cambridge for his MPhil.

[Eustace2016]

I am sure she will enjoy Bristol. Perhaps she would consider law after? My daughter did that after a degree (not in law) at Bristol. Economics is a very good degree for that, particularly for those who go on to do business law.

[zazas]

Thank you again for your insights! I have shared with my DD, who has taken all onboard and has firmed Bristol. She also has a better understanding of the value of placements/internship and that it will all become clearer once she is actually at university! Luckily Economics is what she wants to do academically rather than for the job (which she has no idea of yet)!

Now to get the grades...

[hilbobaggins]

Yes, it really is about skills gained from the work experience, paid or unpaid, with some solid evidence to back it up. It also depends on the field you want to get into. If you want investment banking you'll need the prestigious brand name internships; if you're looking to get into clinical psychology or international development a variety of voluntary roles are fine (and inevitable, really).

That said the vast majority of students don't go the graduate training scheme route and there's often another way "in" and it's usually through networking. Personally I think that's one of the most useful skills we can teach students these days.

[BoboChic]

Littleham - the important thing about work experience is that the intern learned something useful. Some paid work experience amounts to drudge work. Work experience is cumulative too - often the first few internships are not going to be interesting to future employers but they will have allowed the student to progress to the type of internship that does interest employers. It's very difficult to get a "prestigious", brand name internship without a few lesser ones first that will have taught the social skills required in the work place.

[LittlehamHums]

hilbo Is appropriate voluntary work experience well regarded or does it have to be paid?

[hilbobaggins]

I'm an HE careers adviser and have a lot of contact with employers who recruit in the graduate marketplace. I don't agree at all with the PP's statement about Bristol necessarily getting someone better job prospects - that's the kind of thinking that makes students complacent. I've seen it before at Russell Group universities and the result is students getting to their third year with no work experience thinking they'll be fine because they went to such and such university. It doesn't work like that.

Your daughter will be fine wherever she goes provided she comes out with a decent degree, gets plenty of work experience and gets involved with some extra curricula stuff. All this will build her cv but equally importantly it'll help her decide what she likes and what she wants to do. I agree with whoever said that its qualities like flexibility and resilience that will really count on the long run. She should also jump on all opportunities for meeting alumni, networking, practise interviews, mentoring, career talks etc etc from day one - her careers service and department will run this kind of stuff (in fact that's the sort of thing I'd be looking into now) and the earlier she can engage with it the better.

It doesn't matter whether the degree is vocational - what matters is that she enjoys it and does the stuff I mention above. You also need to ignore people / media talking about how hopeless it all is - this is simply not true and will become a self fulfilling prophecy. I will never forget taking phone calls from employers early on in the recession in 2008 / 2009 who couldn't fill their graduate vacancies - at the same time students weren't applying because they thought there weren't any jobs!

[Eustace2016]

I agree with the distinction between the newer universities with placements and the "better" universities employers perfer. I do think Bristol is going to get someone better job prospects than Bath on the whole, despite the Bath placement.

[Lilymaid]

The placement can be useful but is not necessary for economics graduates. Both my DCs have MScs in Economics from another highly ranked provincial university. One had an internship for 8 weeks between 2nd and 3rd undergrad years. The other did no internships at all. Both secured good jobs (one in City in area requiring good Maths skills, the other has an extremely interesting job in government. Neither had any great problems getting these jobs.
OTOH a friend's DS went to Bath, enjoyed his time there, did a placement year, which he enjoyed and then got a job in that organisation and continues to enjoy working there.
I would suggest that OP's DD chooses the university she thinks she will be happiest at for 3 years. They are both excellent academically and the job market for Economics graduates is strong.

[BoboChic]

NeedMoreSleep - the French students who speak English well integrate well too. Visible clumps of French speakers are not representative of all French students.

DSS2 loves it when English people hear him speak French and ask him where he learned his French ;)

[Needmoresleep]

Bobo, and for other students from outside the UK. You see a much smaller proportion of overseas students on less vocational degrees. Plus some groups of overseas students, including the French, pick up reputationsd for sticking largely to their own nationality groups and not mixing socially with the wider student population. Essentially becuase they are there for the narrow specialization and the future job prospects, not the broader education.

(Obviously not all. However DS reports large numbers of French students at his University, but says that unlike the Germans and others, they tend not to mix.)

[BoboChic]

NeedMoreSleep - French Prepa and Grande Ecole de Commerce require a much broader education than an English Economics degree. The narrow specialization offered at undergraduate level in England was one of the attractions for my DSSs (in particular for DSS1).

[Needmoresleep]

Zazas you are right to some extent. There is a value to be struck between education for its own sake , and edcuation as a way of gaining skills.

The British probably attribute more value to the former than other countries, including France where BoboChic's DSS come from, though the Americans with their Liberal Arts degrees seem to place even more emphasis on the value of a rounded education.

Employability in the modern world will require flexibility, emotional and social intelligence and the ability to learn, analyse and so on. A mix of a well regarded University, a real interest in her subject along with a willingness to work hard, having some interesting and intelligent peers studying a range of subjects and from a range of backgrounds, and as much work experience as she can pick up during her vacations will leave her in a strong position.

DS also studies economics. He knows plenty, mainly from overseas, who were pushed into it by parents who stressed the "employability" who are having to work very hard as they are not naturals, and who not enjoying their University experience.

[BoboChic]

Economics is a highly marketable degree - one of the reasons both my DSSs chose it. They both really love maths, too, so have the double satisfaction of really enjoying the course while knowing it leads to well paid and interesting employment.

[zazas]

Thanks for more insights! I guess we are showing (that is my DD and myself) a lack of confidence in a university degree/my daughter's ability in thinking that a placement is imperative in getting a job once you have graduated.

I mentioned earlier that I am not from the UK (although I am a graduate) and my DD will be the first person on both her father's (immediate and extended) and stepfather's (immediate) side to go to university...and this does influence. While I have always assumed that my DC would go on to further education, the lack of family understanding/support does mean that my DD is frequently questioned about why she is doing a degree, what job she will end up with, how much debt she will have etc etc and we have probably both felt 'influenced' to 'value' an offer that has a placement attached that tells you that you will be highly valued by potential employers...

My DD first choice was Bristol from last year's Open Days - she loved the city, the vibrant life to it as well as the university and the course. However she has wavered when she began to feel pressure from different people that unless there was a strong vocational slant to the degree that she wouldn't be able to find 'proper' employment after graduating. Crazy I know, as this is a kid who is sitting on an A*AA offer in Maths, Further Maths, Economics and History who is going to work her socks off and of course will be of value to an employer!

Here is where my not being from the UK comes in, where I start to 'believe' people/media that there aren't enough jobs for graduates and if you aren't connected (through private school or family) there is no chance at all. OK an exaggeration but I grew up believing that working hard and aiming high saw you achieving your 'dreams' whatever they were...regardless of your background.

So what have I learnt from this thread...value the academic side of the degree first, that is why she is going to university, then remain true to what you want out of your university 'experience' (be it campus or city of whatever else are your drivers) and that placements can be great but you can find other ways to gain working experience and that is not a thing to be overly concerned about at 18!

[Coffeewith1sugar]

coconutty we got told for DD if she got a research type placement its highly likely she won't be paid, she might get a travel expense type bursary though. They can still get student loan/maintenance for the placement year so use that to live on and pay for accomodation.

[TalkinPeace]

Bristol is a big city university
Bath is a small campus university
they are utterly chalk and cheese