Dyslexia and university education

[Copper]

I know we have a lot of really helpful academics on Mumsnet, and I wondered if perhaps this might be a good place to think about dyslexics studying at unversity.

My DS has just graduated, with a low 2.2 in a science subject. Over his 3 years his results varied enormously, from 81% in coursework to 38% in all too many exams. He was very disappointed as he had worked and revised hard (I saw him revise, and this is not an exaggeration) and was thinking of doing a masters. I oscillate between feeling sorry that he didn't do himself justice, and delight that he has a degree at all, given that it certainly wasn't a level playing field for him.

He is one of those dyslexics where the level of his dyslexia is masked by high ability, so he just comes across as someone who is flukey and possibly lazy and not as engaged as he might be. [Never had any help in secondary school. I remember his A level chemistry teacher saying he was brilliant in class but so lazy in his homework, so badly presented, typical lazy boy, and was quite surprised that dyslexia might have something to do with this.]

Looking back I can see all kinds of things that would perhaps have made a difference (although maybe not since he has low self esteem after being battered about by failure since late infants, and in general would not dream that he is worth helping: putting himself forward and asking for help is almost completely impossible). So in case anyone else is in this situation, here is what I think would have helped, ranging from individual, to institutional, to national.

1. A mentor set up in advance of arrival, with an initial meeting date fixed and not presented as optional (DS has never discussed the effect of his dyslexia with any educator, but has attended every scheduled lecture, lab etc except about 5 over 3 years when sick)
   

1. Some system in the department that looks at the range of people's results and picks up those which fluctuate so dramatically - typical of dyslexia - so that some kind of intervention is triggered. Again, many dyslexics will not go for help, just assume that they are stupid. So the intervention need not generate much more work for the academic, but would pick up those students whose lack of self-belief means they would never go and see a tutor. Any help in working out what went wrong with 2nd year exams (2 resits) might have helped avoid really bad 3rd year exams.
   

1. Some kind of a study to see if dyslexics actually achieve their potential at university. Student Finance England etc know who they are, as they provide IT help in the form of laptops etc. Universities know who they are, as they have extra time in exams. It shouldn't be too hard to get the data. [If one exists, I haven't been able to find it.]
   

1. All you ever get on the web and dyslexia books are wonder stories of dyslexics getting fantastic degrees at Harvard etc. Not everyone will. I have a nasty feelig most will not do as well as they could.
   

I'd love to hear any views on this whole subject.

[SlowlorisIncognito]

Firstly, well done to your son. A 2.2 is still a real achievement.

I think it is probable that not all dyslexics do as well in their degrees as they should, because not all students do as well in their degrees as they should, for a wide variety of reasons.

I do think uni support varies widely for people with dyslexia and other similar conditions. I know people who have had it diagnosed whilst in uni, and got lots of support. Equally, I know people who were expected to ask for all the help they needed (including extra time in exams) and found this quite difficult.

One of the major issues though, is that most universities are very large institutions, who have many focuses outside the needs of their students. This means students have to be "self starters" and seek out any help they need.

I would imagine, if questioned, the university would say that you son should have discussed any issues with his personal tutor, or the disability office, especially the disparity in grades. There is no-one really looking after students, they way teachers do in school. I am not saying this is fair or right, just how the system works, if your son chooses to go on to further study.

The focus of most universities is research, as this is what brings in major money and prestiege. This is where most of the money will be allocated. Unless the university is solely a teaching university (and this is rare), undergraduates are often much less of a priority.

[MariscallRoad]

DS should go ahead and apply for MA. He needs to try to find departments with good teaching as he might wish to go further than Masters later. A student with dyslexia can request to video the lectures as well and look at them at home. Universities become more and more aware of the need for support for students with dyslexia. My Ds says in certain subjects it takes him longer time to go over but when his knowledge becomes secure he goes faster than the average.

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

Well, yes, it makes a big difference.

If he ends up doing an MA where there is a written exam (not all of them have these), he should certainly make sure he has extra time if that's appropriate.

But it is also perfectly ok to write to potential MA programmes and say he has dyslexia, he didn't have any extra help, and he believes he may have scored lower than he should as a result.

In a postgrad programme, there should be far more room for him to get special help, really.

[MariscallRoad]

I have been trying to fing UK research on comparisons and how adjustments for LDs helps; If I do find I will post it.


I did find research abstracts from US saying that extended time for students with LDs does make a significant difference for them in grades. So at least one should ask for exam extended time 25% and or rests/breaks or anything that is in the Needs Assessment Report. Writing on laptop at exams is something that helps.

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

I didn't think you did! Just thought it was very much worth adding.

Good point about mentoring - I think with the OP, the issue is he didn't seek it out. Now, my feeling is, it should have been brought up several times during the course ... and perhaps it was. But it does make a huge difference, that sort of thing.

[MariscallRoad]

LDR, I did not mean what you said, but you raised some interesting points . I said that students have rights to adjustments under the Equality Act 2010 and this is starting point. Personal mentoring for dyslexics is great and in place for all but there is a need for avalable academic mentoring as well to help with the particular subject in a way that makes the subject accessible. HE budgets should be planned for this type of academic mentoring, I do not know if this has been done.

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

I would say ... I have spent a lot of time being told how important it is for dyslexics to restrict themselves to subjects that suit their learning style. I am sure that's not your intention, mariscal, but if the OP's son finds his subject hard, he still has just as many rights to access proper support to study it.

My subject is in some ways about as bad a match for a dyslexic as could be - but I love it, and when I've had good support, I've been able to cope. I think it's all very well to channel dyslexics into certain subject areas, but this lad is at the stage of doing a Masters - I think he should do what he genuinely enjoys and wants to do, not something different because it seems a better match.

[MariscallRoad]

Copper Your DS has rights. He is protected against discrimination by the Equality Act 2010 here I suggest you read the document and find out the obligations of various bodies and HE towards people with 'protected characteristics?;your Ds is amongst them. In particular, Section 20 on 'duty to make adjustments? is of interest to your DS. You can PM me if you wish.

[MariscallRoad]

Excellent and congratulations to your DS .

There are diversities between dyslexics and dyslexics have certain strengths which you DS would like to read about.. It is a very complex area and you might wish to do some reasearch on it. The dyslexics learn in diverse/different ways than others. So depends what study they do. There is a lot you and your DS can read and research.

The experts on dyslexia are the Ed Ps or other licensed specialists who diagnose the condition and can can write a report on the potential of your DS. The A Level teacher of your DS misunderstood dyslexia; though there are teachers, PATOS specifically trained to diagnose and make assessments.

Myself and Ds, we are dyslexics, I studied subjects that suited my learning style. DS is top 1pc ability. DS has a mentor and excellent support in the uni and the dept where he studies. But he also chose a subject suited to his learning style.

[BestIsWest]

Copthallresident, so interesting to hear dyslexics are over represented amongst Historians. My DD has just completed her second year of a History degree and exactly like the OP's son, her results have varied enormously with a first, a 2:1 and a 3rd from this year's exams. Similar variable results at A level too.

She had loads of equipment from DSA but won't approach the Universty for support. She has developed great coping strategies but I think confidence and low self esteem plays a great part in this reluctance. I love the idea above about stickers to put on work to indicate SpLD


Makes me so angry when people think Dyslexia is a cover for being stupid. DS (also dyslexic) is really struggling at school at the moment and one of his teachers accused him of hiding behind his dyslexia as an excuse for producing poor work. If he could only see the effort DS puts in.

[Copthallresident]

Unfortunately dealing with problems with confidence and self esteem is one of the major challenges facing parents of DCs with SpLDs. At least my DDs know where their weaknesses are and understand why they struggle in some areas but they also know they are very bright. Even so we have had to deal with that sort of rubbish, not just from peers but other parents too.

However in the real world being a Dyslexic and having those particular skills in seeing problems holistically, creative thinking etc. really come into their own. Richard Branson is far from the only Dyslexic to succeed in business, and in many other fields as well. www.dyslexia.com/famous.htm

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

He is, yes. He's talked about it.

[MagratGarlik]

Isn't Richard Branson dyslexic? (or is that an urban myth?) - he can hardly be called stupid.

[pippop1]

DS1 wasn't very keen to have help at Uni but did get extra time in exams and DSA helped with laptop.

He sent me everything he wrote over the 4 years there by email to proof read for him. I would highlight any bits that I thought needed attention and then he would call me and we discussed it. I learnt quite a lot about his subject but discovered that you can proof read without actually understanding the subject too well. He did well at Uni and now has a good job.

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

His friends are wankers.

Tell him there are loads of bright dyslexics, he's one, and this isn't 'help', it's the support he deserves.

If he were working and eligible for tax back from the IR, would he refuse it because it seemed like 'help'? Or would he accept it's his due?

[Copper]

He does have a very high IQ (discovered when he was about 10) but because he was able to 'cope' he never had any intervention. So many 'friends' tell him dyslexia is an excuse for stupid and I think in the end it is all too much

[Copper]

Thanks so much for all these replies. I think in his case it boils down to low self esteem meaning that it is very very difficult for him to seek help. . He has never had help from any educator, only from DSA supplying laptop etc.

I don't suppose he is the only one, but it's an additional problem on top of all the dyslexia ones.

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

Sorry, I'm probably over-emphasizing.

I do get that he almost certainly needs to be more proactive about seeking out help and some of the suggestions in the OP aren't practical (you can't require dyslexic students to see mentors, it wouldn't be fair).

I guess I'm just thinking ahead to what he needs to do next - he does need to get better at asking for help, but if the first response isn't helpful, he needs to know that's not necessarily his fault, some places are less good than others and sometimes you need to push like mad.

[creamteas]

I don't think anyone is claiming it is perfect (for example, I always make it clear that I am only talking about the institutions I have worked in). But there is an issue with some students not talking up support.

For example, at my current uni, students with SpLD who are registered with out disability unit can get stickers to put on their exam scripts or essays which indicate that they need to have this taken into account during marking. We mark anonymously, so this is the only way to identify if we need to take SpLD into account.

Yet in every batch of exams or essays, the number of 'stickered' assessments is less that the number of students who are registered with SpLD.

Obviously I don't know if the stickers would have made a difference, but some students are disappointed with their marks. When I have asked why they didn't bother, this is mainly because the forgot or had run out and not requested more.

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

(Sorry, realizing I am repeating myself, I just think it's important to be aware that things might not be perfect everywhere. If he didn't discuss dyslexia that is his fault, yes, but we don't know if it was encouraged or not and we don't know if there was a friendly attitude or not. It can make a big difference.)

[cakeandcustard]

Hi, I think the key is that he didn't discuss his dyslexia with any educator. I've worked with dyslexic undergraduates in the North East and have found there is a lot of support available, mentoring, exam provision, scribes and proof readers for coursework. It is down to the student to make themselves known to the disability union or similar at whichever institution they attend.

By the time they get to uni they are adults, you can't decide for them that they need support & then force them to attend meetings etc. It's up to the student to decide they want help but once they do, in my experience it is there.

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

I'm dyslexic, so are most of my family.

I've been at three universities - one was excellent with dyslexia support, one was absolutely appalling, and the third was good but mixed, with some great points and a couple of stunning idiocies too.

I'm disgustingly proactive about getting support for dyslexia, so I'm fairly sure it wasn't that, and I do think it's worth acknowledging that, even if others have had very positive experiences, and even though I do agree it's really important for the OP's DS to seek help, especially if he decides to do a Masters but also with whatever work/training he does next.

[Copthallresident]

It is also true that at university the strengths of dyslexics, being able to see issues holistically, lateral thinking, generating creative ideas etc come into their own. Dyslexics are for instance over represented amongst Historians.

I wonder if OPs issues stem from her DS not seeking help and not understanding his own strengths /weaknesses.

[pippop1]

I think going to Uni is the point in time when many dyslexic people decide that rather than trying to keep over learning spellings, rules for grammar as they did at school, it is time for them to concentrate on the content and therefore be allowed to have a little help to get through the work, not with the content, but with the way it appears to the the persn who will be marking their work.

It's a bit like the difference for someone with illegible hand writing being allowed to type out their work. The person still needs to know what to write. The Ed Psych who assessed my DS called it "levelling the playing field".

[Copthallresident]

Copper As a Dyslexic myself, now back at uni, and with two Dyslexic DDs, one at uni studying Science, I must admit I find your post surprising. We have all had excellent support. I don't actually have an Ed Psych assessment, seems like closing the gate after the horse has bolted, but my two DDs do. They know exactly where their problems lie and have developed coping strategies, and the one who is at uni is exceptionally able and so didn't get extra time in exams at school because there wasn't sufficient evidence of need. She has felt she needed it at uni though and so the support has kicked in She also now has equipment to help with lectures because one of her main issues is auditory memory and she realised the quality of note taking had gone down with the need to absorb so much technical and advanced information. We have struggled a bit with getting understanding and support at school but all the unis we are involved with have excellent support available and the academics who teach us seem far more switched on than teachers in schools. Indeed my literature Professor actually commented that after reading one of my essays he laid off with the red pen because he realised I must have a SpLD and clearly at my age red pen wasn't going to get either of us anywhere!!