“I never ever want to be in a situation like that again”

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

'Get me the biggest thing between two slices of bread that McDonald's sells, bugger the veggie burger and YES, supersize it!'

As a vegetarian of more than 20 years, that is a sentence I never thought I’d say. But I did say it and this is why.

During my second pregnancy, I had SPD (Symphis pubic dysfunction, which results in severe pelvic pain) pretty much from the moment the line turned blue on the pregnancy test. I was on crutches at eight weeks and an electric wheelchair from 19 weeks. Not exactly my idea of fun - but if I wanted to be able to get out of the house with my then three-year-old I had no choice in the matter. By the end of pregnancy, I was able to walk only with crutches or holding onto someone, and even then only short distances. To put it in perspective, from my bed to my bathroom is 15 steps. That was the limit of my walking ability.

I was booked in for an induction at my request and for health reasons. Even though we had paid for a private room (which we did primarily so that I had a toilet within walking distance) I was told that I was not allowed to bring in my (electric) wheelchair due to space limitations. I was told that hospital ‘wheelchairs’ were available - but trying to self-propel a hospital wheelchair is almost impossible, as they are designed to be pulled by someone else. The midwives refused to do this, as it was contrary to their manual handling policy.

On the morning following the birth, I was told that if I wanted food (of course I did!) then I would have to leave my baby in the central nursery and go down to the dining room, which was a distance of about 100m. I could only just walk to my bathroom at home, so there was no way I would be able to get to the dining room.

While they were happy to come in repeatedly, usually by throwing the door open with a total disregard for my privacy and lecturing me on totally irrelevant things such as when I would resume marital relations with my DH (answer: when hell freezes over); asking them for a sandwich from the supposedly free-access-whenever fridge was tantamount to asking them to cut their own heads off. I was told it was 'policy' for patients to go to the dining room so they could 'bond' with the other mothers.

My choices were to crawl or to starve, essentially. So when DH came in that lunchtime with his lunch of a McDonald's chicken burger meal hidden under his coat (he thought I would have already had lunch) I polished off every bite of it, before sending him out for more. At that time it was the best thing I have ever tasted. Seriously. Tea and toast - nah. Lukewarm McChicken is where it’s at.

There were other issues, too. There was also no shower chair, so I was unable to have a shower - and the midwives didn't know how to use the bath hoist in the bathroom. I knew, but as I wasn’t manual-handling trained I wasn't allowed to use it either. By this point I was beginning to question if there even was a manual-handling policy.

The issues I faced were eventually put down to staffing issues.

I was offered a birth afterthoughts service but after being made to feel like an afterthought myself, the very last thing I ever want to do is return to that hospital. I won’t be having any more children either, at least partly because I never ever want to be in a situation like that again, with my basic needs ignored under the guise of 'policy'.

And I've not eaten a chicken burger since.

Click here find out more about the Mumsnet Campaign for Better Postnatal Care.

[Prezel1979]

Woah, this all makes for terrible reading! Really important Mumsnet campaign. For comparison, I had both my kids in Germany. Biggest room on the ward had three beds, usually two or even single rooms. Food brought to bedside. Everything clean, sheets changed daily. Secure nursery across the hallway where you could leave babies, while you had a shower/slept/you didn't have to give a reason. Mothers who'd had a bad time and needed to sleep for longer could opt to have their babies brought to them for feeds, or for them to be given bottles, no judging or pressure. When I had trouble bfing eldest, nurses woke me every three hours in the night to pump - not fun, but competent and it established supply. Also we all stay in for three days unless we either insist on leaving, or say we would like to stay longer. But -the system is far better-funded. Medical insurance is 15% of gross income.

[erudiostressed]

Sounds awful and I know these experiences stay with you. Back in 1993 I was a very young 17 year old girl about to give birth to my daughter. I was nervous as any mum a little more so as I was painfully aware I was that much younger. I have three children now all three 11 hour labours. With my first dd as I was crowning the midwife asked would I like to touch the baby's head. I was a little overwhelmed as a whole human being was coming out of me and felt a bit squeamish as I had quite heavy blood loss. I did however have a very clear written down birth plan. This stated I did want my baby delivering onto me. The midwife promptly delivered dd gave me a quick show of her and promptly placed her in the arms of my mum. I tore badly and was stitched back to front taking around an hour all that time my mum held my baby. I think the midwife took the decision as I didn't want to touch the head as it came out that at 17 I would not want the baby delivering on me. At no point was I asked was this the case and just because I felt a bit weird about touching the head as it came out did not mean I had at any point change my birthing plan. I absolutely believe the delay in me holding my dd caused on some level bonding issues she cried constantly and It was always dismissed to the fact I was a young mum when in fact I held my own as a young . My dd is now 24 and it still upsets me when I think about this back then I don't think we had afterthoughts. My mum who I have always had a difficult relationship with revels in telling me how she held my dd before me and thus she has a special bond with her. I feel I was denied something very special and important as a new mum. Both my other children dd and ds were delivered onto me and held immediately irrespective of any stitches I needed. I feel a judgement was made about me without me actually being asked what I was ok with.

[Barbara1956]

Reading this thread makes me feel so sad for the women who have suffered so very much. This all reminds me of the treatment I endured 30 years ago and I am furious that nothing has changed.
I had an emergency c/s after being told that my son would be stillborn , full rush to the operating theatre and general anaesthetic , 2 hour wait for my husband while he thought he had lost us both and when I was finally awake I had my baby , who had amazingly survived, thrust at me and I thought I was being given a dead baby so thought "oh no I don't want this" instead of , thank God . The nurses were horrible and made me get up 3 hours later, blood everywhere, it was hell.
When I got pregnant with my daughter the GP offered me a termination as I had severe post- partum depression after my son's birth. I eventually had her by elective c/s in a different hospital and being awake when she was born made it a much better experience.
I still feel cheated but I know that 100 years ago I would have died in childbirth.
But I agree ,mothers are treated appallingly by the BUS

[Barbara1956]

NHS ...!!

[123MothergotafleA]

You know they're referred to as "Madwives" by the medical fraternity, now you know why.

[Want2bSupermum]

I had my babies here in the US in an expensive hospital. My CS last year plus aftercare cost $9k at a not for profit hospital. I had excellent care with the exception of the BF support but that will improve with time.

What my friends have been through via the NHS is barbaric. Many opt for a home birth and the risk is that if something goes wrong you are very vulnerable.

[Want2bSupermum]

That $9k cost is the cash price that the hospital was paid in total for my delivery and stay. The prenatal care cost was $2500 cash.

I didn't have a low risk birth or delivery. My first pregnancy saw me have preeclampsia and my second gestational diabetes. I was starting to show signs do preeclampsia with my third and had GD with my third when I had my CS. The level of care of the nurses was exemplary. They really cared and were very mothering. Just what I needed.

[CatCircle]

I can relate to lots of this but wanted to add, there was a lack of expertise and MW time to give me ANY breastfeeding support on my NHS postnatal ward. I was post CS and struggled to establish BF. Added to which my baby was sleepy becoming dehydrated heading towards losing more than 10% birth weight and they were saying if it went over 10% they would be putting a nasal tube into the baby to feed unless I could get milk into her. I cried and begged for someone to help me and the best they could offer were some volunteer nonprofessionals who came round whenever they could - which happened to be the next day, in this case. But they only came round for a few hours a day or two a week. No reliable provision of this key service for post natal women. The volunteer BF peer supporters took one look and said we can't show you what to do while your baby is crying, as she happened to be crying at that moment. They didnt return that week.

It all got worse but anyway- it shocked me that the pressure throughout the pregnancy was so strong to breastfeed but with no actual knowledge available on the ward if BF didn't just establish naturally. I was very anti bottle because I had been indoctrinated to think that way and at the time felt I was failing my baby.

I remember the utter fear of being told I might be discharged but that they would keep the baby in hospital for feeding if I couldn't sort it out, and also that 'they had to think of the baby's best interests' when talking about nasal tube feeding. As if I wasn't. I felt huge anxiety and vulnerability for me and the baby while in postnatal care. I can easily see how parents who get on the wrong side of the system can get very defensive very quickly.

Also- if I had not had DH to bring a plate of food to me I would have had to get out of bed post CS to get it. at the time inching along to get to the loo holding my wound pad without my guts falling out was terrifying enough, from the first 24hrs when they told me the catheter was no longer needed. The food was way down a far corridor.

Glad to know that others have had subsequent better births and better care. The nurses I had were not at all trying to be unkind. They were massively, massively, overstretched but with some basic postnatal training lacking.

Postscript: on discharge I found expert BF support drop-in via the HV at the children's centre. BFing was sorted after their help. It's awful that children's centres, NHS and other public service cuts generally will be cutting off this basic support . to all on the thread.

[Expat38matt]

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius May I ask when this was your experience and seems to have been the norm, what was the ratio of patients to nurses ? I'm no expert but the sense is that now it's not that the nurses no longer care but that the ratio is so high they're u able to assess the individual needs and act accordingly so it becomes more of a ticking of a list of basic requirements? As someone with experience what is your take on that?

[juneau]

Why couldn't they push you to the dining room in a 'hospital' wheelchair? Surely that's what hospital orderlies are for? I'm baffled that someone that can't walk and is using a wheelchair wasn't just pushed. I can understand if there wasn't space for an electric one, but to not then put you in a hospital wheelchair is utter shit.

[LadySpratt]

I found that care was also below par, and that once the baby is out, job's done. Is this because mothers are 'clients' rather than 'patients', thereby disassociating any health concerns with the change in terminology?
I was an elderly first time mother and had an unnoticed huge baby (in excess of 5kg). I had an epidural (and subsequent emergency C-section) and just like others have posted, I was expected to go and fetch my own hot meal on legs that felt as though they could have belonged to a recently born foal and unfortunately left a trail of blood on the floor as I went.
There was no attempt to find out whether there was a medical reason for having such a large baby, so I ended up asking the staff to check my fasting blood sugar the next morning.
I felt deeply offended my the staff telling me several days into my stay that I ought to get into the shower, which they dutifully wrote down in their notes, but negated to add my response which was that my husband had helped me every day to have a shower.
As expected there were good and bad examples of staff attitudes, and I found comfort in some staff who came and asked gently how the baby was doing (who was on NICU) , but saddened by some thoughtless remarks about breast feeding, pain killers and the misunderstood showering.

These examples of my experience may not seem too bad, but I have on purpose left out the most emotionally charged part of our care which involves the miidwife's management of the baby, which nearly resulted in its death had I not intervened, but I appreciate is outside the scope of this campaign.

Good luck with the campaign.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

The thing that strikes me is that so much of what is needed is not clinical and therefore not expensive.

Care is what is needed - help with washing, feeding, supporting care of baby and general kindness. Plus a clean, hygienic environment that is fit for purpose... and of course someone accountable for all of that.

None of that costs very much and doesn't require hugely skilled or medically trained staff.

In an ideal world that would free up budget for more specialist postnatal support but I know the reality is that the overall budget would just be cut.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

Disgusting complacency and on top of a poor culture
This. We are told to be grateful because we have the best health service in the world. But you see thread after thread of mums treated like dirt, denied food, water, basic pain relief, in filthy facilities, being bullied and humiliated by rude, uncaring staff. Understaffing doesn't justify this, it's the culture that's he problem.

For most women the worst part of having a baby is the postnatal ward. Some will even decide not to have more children in order to avoid the wretched places. What does that say about our maternity services?

[quirkychick]

Let's face it, if you are on the post-natal ward, you are there due to some complications such as c-sections, stitches, tears etc. I had severe pre-eclampsia with dd1 (11yrs ago) and the emergency care was outstanding. I spent one day still in the delivery suite, as I was attached to so much machinery then I was dumped onto the post-natal ward. The filthy bathrooms (and the description upthread of being like a murder scene is no exaggeration), my food being put on a tray at the end of my bed, while I was still attached to the catheter, begging for pain relief, being told off as I had leaked blood onto the sheets... are all very familiar. When I had dd2, I was transferred to a room and it was much better. So sad, this is still true for some women.

I also remember being shocked that the mws had so little expertise in bf. I was told I was doing really well, came out with dd1 having lost more than 10% of weight, but the hospital had no idea and luckily found a bf group and we both had to relearn it. One of the reasons bf rates are so low is the lack of hcps with any proper knowledge.

[GoneToTheBeach10]

I was completely shocked by the world I entered in maternity services. I spent the entire labour begging for pain relief and it was refused, I was literally convulsing with my head uncontrollably banging on the side the whole time, the following day the back of my head felt like it had been hit with a baseball bat. I tore and was stitched up without local anaesthetic as they couldn't get it to work so continued anyway.
After being on the post natal ward for 4 days (due to baby not feeding well) I had a "care" assistant shout at me for running out of nappies from my hospital bag. I considered chucking my baby's pooey nappy at her, but I had had no sleep for 4 days, I didn't know what was going on, and so I just went back to my bed and cried 😢

[Liwwybettykins]

This makes me so sad to read. Im currently 21w with my first and also a junior doctor who did a brief stint in obstetrics.
I don't doubt that alot of us have had and will have bad experiences of labour, it is a stressful time which has a ridiculous amojnt of high expectations for a perfect delivery or perfect moment when in fact it can be quite a dangerous time which puts your body through one of the greatest stresses it can ever go through. Every woman is different and will have different ideas about what they want and sometimes this just isn't possible.
Services are stretched, and when they are simple care is normally the first thing to go out the window where medical needs naturally take priority.
I'm not trying to excuse anything and there is MUCH room for improvement (no doubt!), but I just wanted to give a shout out to all the fantastic midwives who I have worked with and would be happy to have deliver my baby. I can honestly say, having worked in the system and seen the workings from the inside, I am more than happy to have my baby in an NHS hospital and proud that we have such a wonderful national treasure at our disposal.

[HeyRoly]

FWIW liwwy I received excellent care during labour. But once the immediate danger had passed and I no longer had any pressing medical needs (i.e. the actual birth) that's when the shitty care/borderline neglect began.

So although you're entitled to feel defensive, as an NHS doctor, I think it derails the debate to start calling the NHS a national treasure and something to be proud of, because that negates the very real problems that are quite endemic in NHS postnatal care. And these issues exist, IMO, precisely because the NHS is free and we are expected to be grateful for any care we receive, even if it's deeply inadequate.

[Liwwybettykins]

Just trying to give a different perspective, whilst wholly accepting that it could be better. Definitely require more staff to provide general caregiving tasks which can be time consuming, just not sure that the lack of this can be out down to solely lack of feeling on midwives part.
It costs £10000 to have a baby in a private facility in the UK, and thats assuming you have a one night stay and require no full on medical interventions. In America it costs a whole lot more.
We need more staff.