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Guest post and Q&A: "The National Maternity Review ushers in a new era of care"

49 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 23/02/2016 13:47

This week I launched Better Births, my team's report into maternity services in England. This report marks the culmination of 12 months' work reviewing current services and developing ways that they can be delivered better, for the benefit of all mothers, babies and their families.

The report lays out a series of recommendations which will make maternity services safer, more personal, kinder, professional and more family friendly. You may have already read about the personal maternity care budgets in the news. These will give women more choice, empowering them to spend NHS money on the NHS services which suit them. This is only one of the report's many recommendations, but I am looking forward to answering your questions in the comment thread below this post from 11am to 12pm on Wednesday 24th.

It has been a mammoth effort, and we couldn't have achieved it without the amazing support we received from mothers up and down the country, who have made so many vital contributions to the Review.

During the course of the Review we heard many heart-warming stories, but there have also been harrowing reports of when things have gone wrong. I am enduringly grateful to the women who have shared their experiences with us. In many cases it has taken great bravery and your contributions have been vital to our work improving maternity services.

Having heard from women, families, midwives, doctors and other service providers, we know that there is some excellent care in England but we also know there is significant variation and we could do better.

Women told us that they want to be able to make choices based on unbiased information and for their opinions and decisions to be respected. Better Births recommends that every woman should have a personal care plan developed by her and her midwife, built on her decisions, and informed by an assessment of the type of care she might need. This will put women, babies and their families at the centre of the care they receive.

We believe there should be more continuity of carer so that women can build a relationship of mutual trust and respect with their midwife. Under our recommendations, every woman will have a dedicated small team of midwives providing care throughout their pregnancy, allowing women to develop a rapport with their midwives and for their midwives to have an ongoing understanding and appreciation for the needs and wishes of the women in their care. Women will feel more supported and their pregnancy will be safer.

Our Review found that professionals don't always work together as well as they could. The Better Births recommendations will break down the barriers between midwives, obstetricians and other professionals to deliver multi-professional, safe and personalised care to women and their babies. This will be aided by better training, establishing the principle that professionals who work together train together. Working together across boundaries, professionals will ensure rapid referral and access to the right care in the right place. We will instil a safety culture within and across organisations, and will ensure that there is timely investigation, honesty and learning when things go wrong.

Women told us that they wanted better, more convenient access to maternity services so we are recommending that more services are delivered in the community. We aim to improve access to services and ensure that rapid referral to more specialist care is available when needed.

There is still much to do in ensuring that the recommendations of Better Births are effectively implemented across the country, but women throughout England have every reason to be optimistic. The publication of this report is truly exciting. It ushers in a new era of maternity care which will make services in England among the best in the world.

The report demonstrates what we've learnt and begins to bring into reality, across the country, our recommendations for the benefit of women and their families. We will ensure our recommendations are delivered sustainably now and in the long term, so that future generations will benefit from maternity services that are among the best in the world, putting the woman, her baby and family at the centre of care.

Knowing that this report will shape how maternity services are delivered in the UK for many years to come fills me with great excitement. I want to thank all the mothers, families and healthcare providers who have taken the time to provide us with their invaluable insights into maternity services and how they feel they can be improved. I especially want to take this opportunity to thank all the Mumsnetters who have contributed to this Review, and whose passion and insight have made the process so rewarding. Without the contributions of thousands of individuals up and down the country this Review could never have happened.

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pullthecracker · 24/02/2016 18:53

Sunisshining that sounds ideal, but to have a small group of midwives to support you through every stage means that each midwife would have to be on call a few times per week, 24 hours a day, leaving very little time to spend with their families.
I can completely see how it would be good for pregnant women, but it just won't be a way of working that most midwives will want to do, and I think it will force many out of the profession, when they are already overstretched.

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RedToothBrush · 24/02/2016 16:54

We will certainly not force changes on elective caesareans. Our recommendations are about wrapping care around women’s choices, and their needs. We have recommendations on consistent application of NICE guidelines. If you need a C-section for mental health reasons, the NHS must provide it.

I really think you misunderstand my point.

My ELCS could NOT be classified as for mental health reasons as there is no such classification in data recording. All my clinical carers made it clear it was for mental health so why was this not reflected in the way my ELCS was recorded for data purposes?!

Any woman requesting an ELCS on mental health grounds is automatically classified as for maternal request. This does not truly reflect the reason and is hugely important.

As it stands the NICE guidance talks about ELCS on maternal health grounds under maternal request stating there isn't a clinical indication. Yet mental health SHOULD be classed as potentially a clinical issue.

This is leading to a really poor understanding of the guidelines in some trusts with instant dismissal of requests as they are termed maternal requests (hence bans in place). Yet in reality requests are based on a medical basis.

This is why I state strongly that if ELCS are being done for mental health grounds and funding is coming for mental health is coming from a different pot, unless there is a proper classification for ELCS on mental health grounds then there won't be appropriate funding and there won't be a change in the way in which women like me are treated. I was lucky in having my issues recognised but there are so many that are not and are having massive problem because they fail in a gap of terminology and poor use of language.

Either mental health is health and a clinical matter or it is not.

This IS a fault and a massive failing in the NICE document on CS. It fails to recognise mental health in its own right. All mental health related issues are lumped into the Maternal Request section. THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG. If you read the guidance it is clear that their recommendation on maternal request is on the largely on the grounds of mental health. So the clinical recommendation exists but the terminology and how it is therefore implemented and the data collection completely neglect the idea that this is a mental health issue.

The NICE Recommendations read as follows (from page 19 of the NICE CS guidelines).
Maternal request for CS
34 When a woman requests a CS explore, discuss and record the specific reasons for the request. [new 2011]
35 If a woman requests a CS when there is no other indication, discuss the overall risks and benefits of CS compared with vaginal birth (see tables 4.5 and 4.6) and record that this discussion has taken place. Include a discussion with other members of the obstetric team (including the obstetrician, midwife and anaesthetist) if necessary to explore the reasons for the request, and to ensure the woman has accurate information. [new 2011]
36 When a woman requests a CS because she has anxiety about childbirth, offer referral to a healthcare professional with expertise in providing perinatal mental health support to help her address her anxiety in a supportive manner. [new 2011]
37 Ensure the healthcare professional providing perinatal mental health support has access to the planned place of birth during the antenatal period in order to provide care. [new 2011]
38 For women requesting a CS, if after discussion and offer of support (including perinatal mental health support for women with anxiety about childbirth), a vaginal birth is still not an acceptable option, offer a planned CS. [new 2011]
39 An obstetrician unwilling to perform a CS should refer the woman to an obstetrician who will carry out the CS. [new 2011]

This is why my mental health ELCS was recorded as Maternal Request.
How can I get the words 'mental health' properly recognised?

It is failing so many women with trauma and mental health related issues because women wanting an ELCS on these grounds can not be classified in the correct way - it is a classification and data collection issue that does women a massive disservice and is affecting cultural and attitudes within society.

It also means that any woman making a request is not given appropriate mental health support regardless of whether they actually have an ELCS at the end of it, because they are being treated in a particular way as 'demanding', 'ignorant' or otherwise weak willed and are more easily dismissed despite the guidelines because of the cultural attitudes and political attitudes that spring up around the phrase 'maternal request'. Using the words 'mental health' would empower women so much more as they throw off those prejudices (yes they throw up different ones, but it changes the nature of women's ability to get their needs and choices listened to).

I know that the NICE guidelines on CS are up for review later this year and I will try and get someone to take up the idea that maternal requests on mental health grounds get properly recognised. There needs to be a separate and completely clear section for CS on mental health grounds so there can be no misinterpretation and manipulation of the current situation in future which is what is currently happening.

The trouble is there are so few organisations or groups willing to support the politically sensitive nature of 'maternal requests' even though it is a mental health issue. As an individual I can not be a stakeholder as I don't represent anyone to try and take this up on the review myself.

Your report talks a lot about mental health and data collection and education but you won't do anything that 'doesn't fall under NICE recommendation'. I feel at a lost if you don't support the fact that guidance is simply failing to recognise and merely give the correct labelling and does not recognise mental health as health. Its a matter of language not guidance from NICE.

This review was supposed to be about change and about changing attitudes. Its day 2 and it already feels like the need to improve understanding of mental health in maternity has hit an immediate brick wall and women may not get the funding they need because of the phrase 'no clinical indication' being used a stock phrase for mental health and because it falls under an inappropriate and unreflective heading in NICE guidelines.

I am left feeling more than a little bewildered and worried tbh. Its infuriating.

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SunIsShiningWeatherIsSweet · 24/02/2016 13:54

WhoTheFuckIsSimon- come on. The review talks about a small group of known midwives supporting you through the whole journey. Nowhere did I say I wanted the same midwife for 3 shifts. But a familiar face or knowing it would be one of a group that I've at least met would really help to build trust and understanding and help women relax. They do it with home births here and it's fantastic. If we can start increasing consistency like it says in the report it would really make a difference to women like me.

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PausingFlatly · 24/02/2016 12:30

So no real answers to many people's questions about funding: what will happen when the £3K is spent, why would this structure be introduced in the first place, etc?

Just "I can assure you there is no hidden agenda to privatisation. The Personal Maternity Budgets are financed through NHS money, to be spent on NHS services" [my emphasis].

Well, no, it's not hidden. This and previous governments have made no secret of their desire to privatise, and to offer opportunities for profit in healthcare.

And to decode the second sentence, the privatisers see "NHS" as a brand, which private companies can apply to use, rather than the NHS actually providing services itself. Consumers then use their personal health budgets to buy services from the branded companies.

This structure will
a) immediately re-direct Treasury money to private, profit-making companies (which obviously those companies are keen on)

b) longer-term make it politically easy to cut the taxpayer contribution, once it's expressed in terms of monetary entitlement rather than entitlement based on medical need

c) make it politically and administratively easy to charge consumers for top ups - "our service costs £2500, you can use £1000 from your Personal Health Budget and pay us the rest yourself". All safely arm's length from government, because it's not privatisation or a cut to care, it's the consumer choosing to pay more...

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JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/02/2016 12:14

Thank you for coming to talk with us about the review this morning BaronessJulia.

I hope we've provided further experience, insight, and challenge, although I appreciate you have already sought and listened to the experiences and views of many women in compiling the review and your recommendations.

I'm sure we all share a hope for the best possible maternity provision for every woman as we go forwards Thanks

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 12:05

Thank you all for your questions. You have raised some very important issues that require further thought and consideration. I am sorry we were not able to reply to everyone's messages. I want to say how much I appreciate mumsnet for organising this opportunity and for the valuable time and work that Rowan put in to the report. We are anxious that the report does not sit on a shelf and are already considering an implementation plan to make births safer and a better experience for women and their families.

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QueenofSleep · 24/02/2016 11:58

Julia what will happen with regards to the current system whereby if a woman transfers her care after 28 weeks, most of the maternity tariff stays with the unit she originally booked at? This results in specialist units lose huge amounts of money as they receive a very small proportion of the pot yet are expected to provide the most costly part of the care needed.

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SouthwarkBelle1 · 24/02/2016 11:58

Thank you for your response Baroness Julia.

You say it will be up to individual CCGs to decide who gets access to caseload teams first - will there be something in place to ensure this option is available to everyone at some specific point in the future? I fear it will be as Iit's my my area now, only a choice if you also choose homebirth and happen to be low risk. This effectively makes it a service for only the healthiest (and often wealthiest) not for all women

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:57

@neef

PMHull is absolutely correct to state that the reluctance to give women elective c sections and the the policy of a vaginal birth 'at all costs' over an emergency section is ruining women's and babies lives. I am a victim of the Morecambe Bay Trust vaginal birth policy and now have to live with permanent life changing vaginal and rectal injury and nerve damage after a botched forceps delivery. My son was, thankfully, left without physical injury but lost his mother for the first six months of his life due to the birth trauma and my psychological and physical distress continues to affect my ability to parent three years on. Is the government going to compensate women and children who have been affected by NHS failings? I fully support the recommendations made in the review, but what are the government going to do to support the women who have already been affected?


Hello neef, I am so sorry to learn of your experience. I think giving birth to a healthy baby is difficult enough and when injuries occur to the mother or to the baby it is devastating that is why the strong thread which runs through the whole of our report concentrates on safer care. Pages 47 and 48 set out nine initiatives which will enhance safety. We have a scheme which will help parents who have a damaged baby but sadly have not been able to include the damage to women. The mental health task force, published ten days ago, does address the issue of psychological distress and there is funding attached. Unfortunately we were not able to address individual cases and issues have to be resolved by the NHS Trust involved in the care.
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pullthecracker · 24/02/2016 11:51

Do you feel that women's choice will be reduced, as there may not be sufficient funding in the £3k to access all the things that they would like?

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QueenofSleep · 24/02/2016 11:49

Similarly at the start of pregnancy many women cannot know what kind of care they may want or need during pregnancy, birth or the postnatal period. Childbirth is an unpredictable process.
There is also the issue of skill mix within maternity. Some of the previous posters have commented on meeting multiple midwives, which they may find distressing. However midwives cannot all be masters of everything - many have specific areas of expertise, whilst other more junior staff need support from other in more complex cases.

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PausingFlatly · 24/02/2016 11:45

BaronessJuliaCumberlege Wed 24-Feb-16 11:17:36
Women will be able to ‘spend’ their budget dependent on their needs – they will pick from the menu of options available locally as they do now for every element of their care, depending on their needs. There will be no assessment of a woman’s overall budget allocation. If you need specialist care, the budget for specialist care becomes available.

So what is the purpose of introducing this new tier of bureaucracy, please?

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JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/02/2016 11:44

Reading your answer to SouthwarkBelle I do feel that individual woman centred care needs to be given to every woman whatever their assessed level of risk or their personal circumstances.

I think this also relates to how midwifery services work with obstetricians and consultant led care (as I'm pleased to see you mention as a challenge within UK maternity provision)

I guess I'd like to see you being more ambitious for change in these areas!

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:41

@TheTwinsMan

It was great to see twins and multiple births referenced in the report. Too often they have been overlooked. How to personalise care for those with higher risk/complex pregnancies, who are still likely to be seen in hospital, was implied but without any details given. Be interested to hear any thoughts on how this could be achieved?


Hi TheTwinsMan, Really good to have a comment from you as we were very conscious that dads should be included and welcomed at the birth of their child. We met with TAMBA and appreciated the challenges that parents face when twins are involved. Some Maternity Practices (independent midwives) are prepared to deliver twins in midwife led units or at home. Everything depends on the professional advice parents are given from all the clinicians involved and the choices the parents wish to make.
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QueenofSleep · 24/02/2016 11:40

Baroness Julia, while I welcome anything that brings more funds into maternity services, the idea of all women being able to access team midwifery is just not workable in the current climate. There is a dire shortage of midwives especially in London, and many hospitals rely heavily on agency staff to fill shortfalls in their units. In addition many midwives work part time and are not able or willing to be on-call at all times for their clients. While team midwifery is an excellent approach, it requires sufficient staff to ensure that sickness/leave/vacancies among the team doesn't result in the service failing.
We know that poor outcomes for mothers and babies are more prevalent amongst vulnerable groups and those with complex health and social needs. £3000 is not sufficient for many of these clients, so who decides what "their" budget is spent on?

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:35

@SouthwarkBelle1

I welcome the idea of more choice and continuity but in practice will this apply to all mums? Will high risk mums or those who don't want a home birth be able to access caseload midwifery teams? In my area such teams exist and are great but are only an option if you are willing and able to have a home birth, private midwives also seem most interested in home/"normal" birth (and cost more than 3k). Will there be an enough MWs willing and able to provide caseload care for ALL who choose it? Will some choices only be available if you can afford to pay additional costs yourself?


Hello SouthwarkBelle1, We have the strong support of the Royal College of Midwives to introduce caseloading midwifery. We know it is going to be a challenge but we must persevere in the interests of safety. It will not be possible to top up services and a lot depends on the Clinical Commissioning Groups as to how they want to introduce continuity of the introduce services for vulnerable women initially and then include more women. Others may want to start with standard care (low risk women), others may want to include women who need intermediate care and/or complex care.
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TheTwinsMan · 24/02/2016 11:30

It was great to see twins and multiple births referenced in the report. Too often they have been overlooked. How to personalise care for those with higher risk/complex pregnancies, who are still likely to be seen in hospital, was implied but without any details given. Be interested to hear any thoughts on how this could be achieved?

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:27

@MilkOfAmnesia

Good evening,
I'm one of the other Health care professionals an expectant mother may come into contact with. I have to say, I'm very much in agreement with Simon. There are some good recommendations in this report, but without a huge injection of cash and many more midwives, it just seems 'pie in the sky'.
I also can't shake the feeling that there's a trapdoor to privatisation hidden somewhere. But I'm a very cynical and pessimistic person of late junior doctors.


Hello MilkofAmnesia, I can assure you there is no hidden agenda to privatisation. The Personal Maternity Budgets are financed through NHS money, to be spent on NHS services. The last thing I want to see is the principle that governs the NHS eroded. Simon Stevens, Chief Executive of NHS England has assured us that he will find some 'Early Adopters' to try out our recommendations before they are nationally rolled out. We need to see what works and what needs changing in the light of experience.

@PMHull

So many cases of death and injury during childbirth are directly attributable to a caesarean carried out too late or not at all, and yet the undeniable life-saving, prophylactic benefits of a planned caesarean don't warrant a single mention in this review.

The push for natural/normal birth at all costs, and the drive to reduce caesarean rates to arbitrary levels continues to endanger the lives and quality of lives of mothers and babies. This review cites cost savings with fewer medical interventions, but appears to forget the colossal litigation bills this country pays out (and still owes) to families when the avoidance of caesarean birth leads to death and injury.


Hello PMHull. The whole thrust of our report is about women's choice and safety. We have not sought to recommend different clinical solutions as this was not the purpose of the review or in our Terms of Reference. We were asked to look to the future and the shape of maternity services we think would improve safety and choice. We throughout have relied on the NICE guidelines and the research from different institutions including the much respected NPEU at Oxford University.
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JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/02/2016 11:26

Thanks Julia, I'm very glad to hear that Mumsnetters experiences and views were so well represented as part of this important review of maternity services in the UK.

I hope that it will herald a new era of woman centred and well resourced maternity care where every woman and baby can have the best possible experience and outcome throughout pregnancy, birth, and the post-natal period.

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:22

@MilkOfAmnesia

Good evening,
I'm one of the other Health care professionals an expectant mother may come into contact with. I have to say, I'm very much in agreement with Simon. There are some good recommendations in this report, but without a huge injection of cash and many more midwives, it just seems 'pie in the sky'.
I also can't shake the feeling that there's a trapdoor to privatisation hidden somewhere. But I'm a very cynical and pessimistic person of late junior doctors.


Hello MilkofAmnesia, I can assure you there is no hidden agenda to privatisation. The Personal Maternity Budgets are financed through NHS money, to be spent on NHS services. The last thing I want to see is the principle that governs the NHS eroded. Simon Stevens, Chief Executive of NHS England has assured us that he will find some 'Early Adopters' to try out our recommendations before they are nationally rolled out. We need to see what works and what needs changing in the light of experience.
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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:17

@RedToothBrush

The care I received during my pregnancy was in probably the very model of what every woman should receive. I was listen to. I was able to choose a hospital out of area (including a referral to a particular consultant midwife), additional mental health support and eventually an ELCS for mental health reasons without hassle.

I am exceptional happy to see the extent to which mental health is in the report as it is long overdue and my experience is not the norm sadly.

However I am exceptional worried by a number of things in the report and the way in which it has been reported.

The report gives the distinct impression that choices now are not available and the payment system will magically make those choices possible. The emphasis that the payments system will be the key to change is one that I find troubling and misleading in many ways.

The Maternity Review was commissioned of the back of the Morecambe Bay problems and concerns over safety. There is a surprising lack of talk of health and of the safety of women in the press coverage. Indeed I think there is a real danger in thinking that the review has been used an opportunity to encourage privatisation style idea rather than be concerned about women's health. I think the idea of 'choice' being the way to improve safety is potentially disingenuous. Many of these choices already exist and are available and the tone of the report is to suggest that certain things that should be available as standard care will now be regarded as 'extras' or the result of 'demanding' women wanting luxury rather than basic care appropriate for their personal circumstances.

The idea that personal budgets will drive social change and wider public attitudes is naïve and gives women a false impression.

I appreciate that I have a long list of concerns, and don't expect there will be time for them all, but any answers would be great and any others be considered during implementation.

My ELCS was for mental health and this was strongly stressed to be as being 'clinical need' by all my HCP. However my paperwork stated maternal request. It also means in the current culture that hospitals are able to adopt policies that 'ban maternal request ELCS' despite the NICE guidelines.
a) Will there be a forced change to reflect ELCS for mental health reasons as this has implications for funding.

When I was trying to choose my hospital because of these 'bans' on 'maternal requests' I was keen to find a hospital with a favourable attitude to ELCS. What I found was hospitals do not publish their standard policies on this and similar issues. This is a major handicap to ultimate 'choice' as its like choosing blind fold. This also encourages disparity in care. The only alternative to this, is to force hospitals to abandon individual policies and make them all adhere to NICE guidelines to the letter.
b) Will hospitals be forced to publish policy in areas where women make most choices or will they forced to adhere to NICE guidelines to ensure transparency and/or ensure consistency of care

I understand that mental health care will be funded by a separate pot of money. However despite choosing my own options, I worry about the implications of choice backed by a budget for those with similar problems. I was in a privileged position and able to make choices others would not be able to.
c) How will you ensure that vulnerable groups are not getting the 'left overs' of choice and that they don't feel daunted and left even more by the idea of choice?

My 'choice' was in reality driven by the lack of appropriate local services. If I could have used my local services I would have and this is ultimately what I see as the problem - a lack of local options which are able to provide appropriate high quality and flexibility in care.
d) Will this choice idea be backed up with a responsibility of providers to provide a range a service within their area so women do not have to travel out of area

My experience of mental health care was great at the hospital I was at, but I was then at the end of my pregnancy switched back to my local non-maternity services. It was not a specialist maternity service but general mental health services and they did not have a clue what to do with me or have any understanding of my needs.
e) Developing specialist maternity services is great, however there also needs to be a better overlap with general mental health services. Does this fail inside the remit of the changes or will there be no pressure to change related external services?

Choice is good. Choice is already possible under the current system for many women though. Its other gatekeeping issues that are causing many of the problems
f) How do you intend to remove the bias on information women receive as many of these 'facts' are institutionalised beliefs rather than evidence based medicine? Merely giving women money does not change the influence they face from HCPs
g) How much retraining will midwives and consultants get and will there be additional funding for this?
h) How do you intend to do this without removing the burden of responsibility from HCPS and instead placing it on the shoulders of women?

The idea of a budget gives the impression that women will be in complete control of their care. HCP are bound to 'do no harm', so how does this fit in with choice. Won't this still throw up some of the current gatekeeping issues that women already are facing in terms of their choices? Will HCP have the power to 'override' certain choices for 'safety reasons' if they feel if its not in the best interest of the patient. There are dangers in giving women the impression they can choose more than they can in reality.
I) How do you ensure a balance in the relationship between patient and professionals?
j) How do you ensure that women's perception and expectation of choice matches the reality?
k) How do you encourage flexibility and compromise rather than merely standardised ways of working within an add on system?

C-Sections are neither good nor bad in themselves. They are only bad if they are inappropriate. Comparing rates between hospitals can be misleading if other factors are not taken into consideration. Moves to reduce rates should not
l) Will there be an end to 'targets' within maternity care and instead simply encouraging the best and most appropriate care for each individual patient, using rates only in conjunction with patient satisfaction?
m) Will there be a ban on language with boasts things like being 'proud of out low caesarean rate' which attaches value, judgment and emotive associations to medical procedures rather than promoting the idea that all women will merely get the most appropriate care?
n) Will there be an overall of lumping together EMCS data and information with ELCS data and information?

It is not at all clear how different women will be accessed for a budget if they are not going to be classed as low, medium or high risk
o) Will women know their individual budget and if so is there a danger that women will lie to get a bigger budget due to perceptions that they are not getting enough / not valued as much?
p) On what criteria will women be assessed? Is the proposal something like a points system with women getting extra based on extra risk factors / social economic status?


Dear RedToothBrush, thank you for your detailed questions! I shall do my best.
We will certainly not force changes on elective caesareans. Our recommendations are about wrapping care around women’s choices, and their needs. We have recommendations on consistent application of NICE guidelines. If you need a C-section for mental health reasons, the NHS must provide it.
On publishing polices with regard to NICE guidelines – we certainly expect NHS providers to adhere to guidelines and our recommendations are designed to achieve that. We believe that the best way to make sure that your choice of place of birth reflects your needs is to have an open and honest conversation with a healthcare professional, based on unbiased information. That should be happening now, but we know it doesn’t always happen. Personal Maternity Care Budgets are one way to facilitate this, but there are other recommendations in the report too.
Protecting vulnerable groups is crucial, and we made particular efforts to engage with vulnerable groups as we carried out our work. Again, the best way to guarantee choice is to have an open and honest conversation with a healthcare professional, based on unbiased information. A personal budget could be part of that, but only if the woman wants it.
You are right that choices will depend on the local services available. There is a big emphasis in our report on making sure that there is a better range of services available for exactly the reasons you mention.
We make recommendations on working across professional boundaries, and you are absolutely right that this must include boundaries between maternity services and general mental health services. We worked closely with the Mental Health Taskforce to make sure their recommendations reflected this.
You are right about the influence some health care professionals can have on women’s choices – we talk about this extensively in the report. Recommendations that will address this include women holding their own single maternity record, and a digital maternity tool.
The dilemmas you raise in questions i-k seem to be about balancing medical advice with women’s choices. Ultimately, legally and morally, the choice of how and where to give birth is always up to the woman. It is the job of the NHS to wrap care around women’s choices.
You are absolutely right that C-sections are neither good nor bad in themselves. We think that rather than banning specific language, we need to change the culture of maternity services, to focus on safety and personal care rather than any particular model of maternity care. We think that data collection in maternity needs a complete overhaul!
Women will be able to ‘spend’ their budget dependent on their needs – they will pick from the menu of options available locally as they do now for every element of their care, depending on their needs. There will be no assessment of a woman’s overall budget allocation. If you need specialist care, the budget for specialist care becomes available.
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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:16

@pullthecracker

icklekid that's true, so then work should be put into those individual trusts that aren't able to offer it rather than basically privatising midwifery and reducing women's choice, and giving them more stress by asking them to pick what care they want.


Pullthecracker the care you provide sounds excellent. Throughout the course of the Review, we have met many dedicated staff such as yourself that provide fantastic services, however we have sadly found that not all women receive such great care and that there is unwarranted variation in the safety, quality and outcomes of services across the country. We need to learn from the best to provide a good experience for all women.
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RowanMumsnet · 24/02/2016 11:13

Thanks Juggling

The Q&A will start any minute now - think there's a last minute tech snarl-up but we're trying to get it sorted.

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BaronessJuliaCumberlege · 24/02/2016 11:13

@WhoTheFuckIsSimon

I'm a midwife and have read the report today. Sadly I'm at work tomorrow. I totally agree with the main thrust of the review but I do think a lot of it such as personalised care is already been done. The thing I picked up on was the recommendation for team midwifery similar to the service on The Wirral.

Nationally we've been there and done that in the past, it's more expensive and requires more midwives. How can this be funded? Do you think the govt will act on your recommendations and will there be a move back to team midwifery?


Thank you for your comments Simon, you are right that we have much to learn from the past. Our work, however, has focused on finding people who are already providing the services of the future and people who want to change the way they do things. We’ve tapped into the energy and commitment of women and families as well as NHS professionals. Many of the services we visited have no choice but to change. Our role is to support them to make these changes.

Firstly, woman have told us that they want to see more personalised care and want to be given more choice on the type of care they receive. Therefore we want to put women, their babies and their families at the centre of their care so that they have more control over the decisions they make about where and how to have their baby.

We also need to provide better continuity of carer, to ensure safer care. We are recommending that every woman should have a midwife, who is part of a small team of 4 to 6 midwives, based in the community who knows the women and family, and can provide continuity throughout the pregnancy, birth and postnatally.
We have estimated the size of the midwifery workforce likely to be required to deliver these improvements. Although it is based on a number of assumptions and different challenges are likely to occur in different parts of England, it suggests that a significant increase in the midwifery workforce is not required.

@RevCharlotte

When I travelled to the parent panel in Manchester, I shared my experiences of a preventable Group b Strep infection that nearly cost my son his life, and has left him permanently and profoundly disabled. I know I was one of a number of parents who shared their Group b Strep experiences with the panel, both in Manchester and in London - and in the case of at least two of these parents, their children died as a result of these infections. At the end of the discussion, Sir Cyril looked me in the eye and said, "I will do everything I can to make sure that what happened to you does not happen to anyone else." He also said that informing women of the risks of Group b Strep and testing for it just makes sense.

So please, can you tell me why there is absolutely no mention of Group b Strep in this review, or any recommendations for changing the current, inadequate, risk-based approach?

Baroness Julia says in her comments that she hopes this review will contribute to making NHS maternity care among the best in the world but the UK is seriously lagging behind in the issue of Group b Strep. A huge number of countries already test for this preventable infection and have seen their infection rates drop by over 85% as a result. If the NHS is going to even attempt to become among the best in the world, then we MUST change the current policy on Group b Strep.

The attached picture is my son, four years ago, fighting for his life against Group b Strep.


Dear RevCharlotte, thank you once again for sharing your experiences with us, here and in the very emotional session in Manchester.

We believe strongly that our recommendations on safety, investigations and learning from mistakes work directly to make good on Cyril’s promise to you, to do everything we can to make sure that what happened to you does not happen to anyone else.

You are right that we do not mention Group b Strep, or other specific infections or conditions in the report. That is because it is so important that we do not replace the role of NICE in making evidence-based clinical recommendations. Our recommendations are about the future shape of maternity services, and safety is at the heart of our vision.

@SunIsShiningWeatherIsSweet

I love the idea of more consistent care. I saw a different midwife almost every time antenatally and for the birth and again afterwards. During the birth I had 3 different midwives due to shift changes at MLU, 1 new midwife for an emergency transfer (I cannot believe that they threw me in an ambulance with a midwife I'd met literally being wheeled to the ambulance) and then another midwife at hospital. I'd never met any of those midwives before that day and never saw any of them again after the birth. It was a distressing time and meeting all these new midwives was equally distressing as each would have a different opinion on things, a different way of doing things or simply a different way of supporting. I found this very confusing and it made me very anxious. As I never saw any of them again afterwards there was no one who was there who could explain what had happened. Do Trusts have to follow the recommendations or are they just guidelines? How long do you think it will take to make this change? I can't explain how much I hope they bring this into my local maternity services!


@SunIsShiningWeatherIsSweet

I love the idea of more consistent care. I saw a different midwife almost every time antenatally and for the birth and again afterwards. During the birth I had 3 different midwives due to shift changes at MLU, 1 new midwife for an emergency transfer (I cannot believe that they threw me in an ambulance with a midwife I'd met literally being wheeled to the ambulance) and then another midwife at hospital. I'd never met any of those midwives before that day and never saw any of them again after the birth. It was a distressing time and meeting all these new midwives was equally distressing as each would have a different opinion on things, a different way of doing things or simply a different way of supporting. I found this very confusing and it made me very anxious. As I never saw any of them again afterwards there was no one who was there who could explain what had happened. Do Trusts have to follow the recommendations or are they just guidelines? How long do you think it will take to make this change? I can't explain how much I hope they bring this into my local maternity services!


Hi SunIsShiningWeatherIsSweet, we absolutely must make more personal, safer care a reality for women across the country. Our work has focused on finding people who are already providing the services of the future and people who want to change the way they do things. We’ve tapped into the energy and commitment of women and families as well as NHS professionals. Our role is to support them to make these changes.

Some important work now needs to take place on the detail of implementation, but our outline plan is that it will work on a two phase basis: testing the recommendations through early adopter sites; followed by a national rollout, in line with the NHS’s five year planning cycle.

For recommendations that will be implemented nationally, like the new investigations system when something goes wrong, work will start immediately.

@April2013

I understand a lot of women want the same midwife but tbh I think it is safer dealing with many different ones as you are then given access to a variety of opinions\ideas\experiences which I think is much better than just those of one or a few. Plus it is better to briefly meet one that doesn't seem to be offering a great standard of care than to have that midwife throughout or for a long period until you manage to change, same goes for all health professionals.

Was this board asked for contributions to this report? If not it seems a bit rich that this Tory is now only seeking feedback once it has been written and published and makes me think it is likely to therefore be very biased towards a particular agenda rather than simply trying to make maternity services safer.

Is there any mention of additional doppler scans in the third trimester?


Thank you April2013, these are important questions. I understand why you would want input from multiple midwives and these recommendations are about choice. Many women have told us that they’d like to receive consistent care from the same professional throughout their pregnancy, but if you would choose to see a range of midwives then we should wrap care around your choices.

I have already discussed how we sought contributions from a wide range of relevant sources, including mumsnetters, with our focus being on delivering safer services which put the woman and her baby at the centre of care.

When it comes to Doppler scans, our review is about the future shape of maternity services. It would be wrong of us to make clinical recommendations – the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) already does this on the basis of the best available evidence.
We did, however, find that national guidance on screening and monitoring is not being followed consistently. Our recommendations on culture and learning, data collection and benchmarking, as well as teamwork and leadership are designed to address these problems.

@JugglingFromHereToThere

Good morning Julia, your introductionary post seems very encouraging and I'm also hopeful that the proposed changes will represent increased resourcing for maternity services in this country generally.
In particular I hope that better care will mean fewer still-births in the UK as I know more than one person who has suffered this tragedy.

I think birth is such an important time for women and their families and that getting this more right for more women is an excellent and long overdue use of our resources.

I was fortunate to have two good births including one where I was able to use a water-pool throughout. The care I received was good too although like many I see areas for improvement, especially in terms of continuity of care and the post-natal ward.

Most of all I now have a teenage DD and I hope if one day she has a baby that her experience can be even better than mine was.

My question .... I didn't have the opportunity to contribute directly to the review but have contributed my experiences and ideas to many pregnancy and birth threads on Mumsnet over the years.
I just wondered if you and your colleagues working on this review have been reading relevant threads here on Mumsnet at all?
It would be good to feel that our voices have been heard Smile


Good morning JugglingFromHereToThere, thank you for your kind words and for sharing your experiences. We certainly took the views of communities like Mumsnet very seriously. Indeed, Rowan Davies from Mumsnet Towers was a member of our Review Team. Rowan worked on Choice Workstream, shaping our proposals on putting women at the centre of care. She also fed in thoughts, ideas and experiences from Mumsnet users, which complimented our extensive engagement with women and families up and down the country. Certainly your voices have been heard.
Experts' posts:
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CazMoren · 24/02/2016 11:09

Is this Q&A with the Baroness happening now?

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