Guest post: 'If Britain really is becoming more racist, I fear for my children'

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

I can't remember there being a single day or event which made me realise I was different. There was no name-calling or finger-pointing. There was no bullying or spiteful stereotyping. Instead, there was an understanding that dawned on me slowly. It happened when I was at primary school. I looked around and began to notice that there were hardly any other children with skin the same colour as mine.

Over the years, I began to hear the term 'ethnic minority' repeated. I began to learn what racism was.

This week, headlines have screamed that Britain is becoming more racist. The news items have been based on the annual British Social Attitudes survey - which found that 30 per cent of people described themselves as “very” or “a little” prejudiced against people of other races. In 2001, that figure was 25 per cent.

Whether or not the survey's results signify a rising tide of racism is open to question. But no matter how the statistics are interpreted, the survey has captured the attention of news editors for good reason. It comes at a time when the rhetoric of racism is edging its way back into our mainstream.

Many of us have spent this week digesting the gains made by UKIP thanks to voters swayed by their firm stance on immigration and Europe. As the swell of support for the far-right across Europe becomes unmistakeable, we watch police clear migrants from camps in Calais. If the raw data from the British Social Attitudes survey isn't enough to convince us that racial prejudice is worming its way back into our lives, then perhaps these events should give us pause for thought.


As a British Indian, I read all of this news with a with a heavy heart. It prompted in me a familiar feeling. Fear.

My fear doesn't come from hearing racist taunts. It doesn't come from being the victim of racist attacks. In fact, I would struggle to recall a single instance where I have been treated badly because of the colour of my skin. But that doesn't make me any less afraid.

I was blind to skin colour as a young child. But as I gradually realised that I was one of only a few pupils with dark skin in my school, I felt alone. I felt different. I felt like a significant part of who I was couldn't be expressed. This wasn't because of any outright repression of my identity by others. But it was, perhaps, because I felt that the easiest way to gloss over difference (because don't all children want to do that?) was to concentrate on the parts of life that were the same.

Later, at secondary school, at parties, at sports clubs, at university socials, at corporate events - it was this same feeling of being alone that haunted me. I didn't experience outright racism. But I knew, often, I was noticeable for my skin colour. I also, conversely, felt part of me was invisible. I felt again like a section of my identity wasn't being recognised. A part of my voice, the part which set me aside from the rest of the room, wasn't being heard. That part was instead being ignored - perhaps because life was easier that way.

Certain events over the years have made me fear racist attitudes despite never being a victim myself. The blatant hatred which followed 9/11 shook me. I worried for the safety of my family. Every racist crime which makes its way onto our news channels still has the power to do the same.

My first feeling is always shock. I question how a person can have so much hatred for another, simply because of the colour of their skin or the place they were born. It is, to me, incomprehensible. The fear comes afterwards, because there is a power in hatred which makes me afraid.

And then, after the shock and fear, there is always sadness. Sadness, because racism is a blatant repression of diversity. And it is through diversity that we learn, we grow, and we celebrate each other. Without diversity, we go nowhere. Without nurturing diversity, we silence each other and ourselves.

When I read about racism in Britain, I feel fear. And now that I also have two young children, I also feel immeasurable fear on their behalf. It sickens me that they could ever be treated unfairly because of the colour of their mother's skin. And, as well as the fear, I feel sadness for them. They deserve, like every child, to grow up in a world where their voices aren't silenced. They deserve, as we all do, to grow up being themselves.

[MissThang]

With respect, if my religion was sexist, there is no way in hell I would have converted to it. And CluelessCrapParent is spot on..you don't need religion for misogyny to exist. The so called Muslims Christians Jews etc etc who hold these vile views about women don't even practise their religions. They are whatever they are by name only. Plenty of atheist men (like my own father and many of his friends) hold awful patriarchal views and use porn regularly. I've heard more disgusting things about women (fat bitch, dirty slag, could do with a good to lighten her up) coming from atheist men in my personal experience.

[JaneParker]

We are very lucky here to be free to express views and are happy for people to come here who respect English freedom of speech.

There are huge numbers of people in the UK including sadly many from abroad where the women don't work and serve men and the girls are educated less well than the men, where the women inherit half what a man does, where the foreign men are so inflated with lust they have to keep women covered up and the like. We are allowed thankfully to rail against such awful customs. If there be a God I expect she cries over the sexism of many of these cultures and religions. We will work so hard in the UK to ensure all that is rooted out and everyone here benefits from our non sexist ways and a liberal education and exposure to fair and free lives, the scales lifted from their eyes.

[MissThang]

Jane I do agree with a hell of what you've said and I think yes there are massive problems to do with backwards values coming from abroad, namely women serving men lik slaves, FGM and others.

I just wanted to clarify that within Islam, the only reason a female inherits half of what a male does is solely due to the fact that the male is responsible for financially supporting his family and any dependents. A female is not. Any money a female is given or earns is hers alone and a male cannot legally access it, according to Islam's laws. Any male relative is responsible for supporting her if she does not work herself. I hope that's made things a bit clearer.

[JaneParker]

Yes, but that principle - that men support women is morally pernicious and an evil in my view. It ensures women are kept in effect chained to kitchens. It needs to be abolished. It as appropriate when people lived in penury in the desert but not today like a lot of religious rules from those days. I can certainly agree with you that it meant no harm and intended some good in its day but today it is a morally wrong and I would hope I can persuade all good Muslims on the planet of that and that they alter that in good conscience they abandon it. There was a demonstration in London the other week at the Law Society against the new guidance on those sexist rules. A lot of us are working very hard against that sexist Islamic principle and we are free to do so as we are a free country unlike much of the Muslim world sadly which is probably why so many Muslims want to live here rather than under Sharia.

[MissThang]

I can see from what you've just written Jane and from how you have interpreted a simple Islamic law to have such an agenda, that we may as well agree to disagree. I stated two clear points, those being that women are free to work and own their salary under no obligation to give to their husband or anyone else, and also that a man is under legal Islamic obligation to support his family including female dependants. A practising Muslim who understands and applies Shariah correctly, knows that this law in no way tries to chain women to kitchens. That is, in effect, culture. Any educated person knows that culture is the issue here, not the correct religious rulings. Furthermore, plenty of men without religion keep women chained to kitchens and financially abused..Mumsnet has had hoardes of posts in the relationship section about that over the years.

[MissThang]

I shan't keep trying to bother arguing the case though as it's pointless. I live life every day as a Muslim having to justify everything on the wonderful Daily Heil to ignorant and prejudiced people. The difference is, some people are open minded and are willing to research for themselves, meet others of different religions or cultures, and make the effort to educate themselves. Others prefer to bask in a bubble of superiority and hold on to the 'evil shariah muzlamic forriner' attitude. If you are so completely biased and wrongly informed Jane, I fail to see how you can learn anything other than what the media brainwash you with.

[CluelessCrapParent]

I have been living in two muslim countries in the last 4 years and I have to say I think it is inherently sexist, so it is not just because of the media "brainwashing" I'm afraid.

I am just very glad that in the UK, we have religion separate from the state.

[CluelessCrapParent]

Or effectively so.

[MissThang]

Yes well like I've said, when you get people who don't practise correct religious rulings, there will always be problems. The uk is not free from sexism either what with women being flogged like pieces of meat on every marketing and advertisement you see...so please let us not pretend for our own convenience that we don't have the problem here on a very large and different scale.

[CluelessCrapParent]

Seems like your Islam might be ok, moral and just etc.. unfortunately there are many other versions of Islam and sharia law in practise, and things done in the name of religion, not all made up by the media.

Not saying uk is free from sexism, far from it.

[JaneParker]

The trouble is can anyone show me a country which does follow "correct religious rulings". I have worked in Iran adn Dubai and they are awful and dreadful for women and sexist to the core. Saudi would be much worse. Where are the musli countries where women are subject to the correct religious rulings of Islam and as equl in the West? Certainly not Pakistan or Afghanistan. Sudan - definitely not. I could go on.

Anyway the main thins is that when these backward cultures come here we have the wonderful opportunity to ensure the women are subject to Western values and they can cast aside the shackles of sexist cultures and be free and be equal.
What we all need to fight against whether we are immigrants or not is tht there is a rising tide of sexist backward immigrants with cultures which discriminate. We need to point out all the time why many of those cultural practices are wrong.

If we take a different example - Catholic Poles most of the younger generation are not very religious which is not the case with most say Sudanese immigrants. They might be against abortion but they have relatively equal relationships where women often work out of the home and they thus do less damage to the feminism of our country.

[MissThang]

I don't deny the absolute state of most Muslim countries and the obvious sexism and oppression that goes on there. Unfortunately even though these places claim to follow islam and Shariah law, of course they do not. They follow culture and old tribalism/patriarchy. My point was that islam as a complete religion when all laws are followed correctly, is not sexist or oppressive towards women or anyone else. This is why Muslims resent the Daily Heil and other sources claiming how terrible Shariah law is. It just incites hatred of the worst kind. Of coursn

[MissThang]

Posted too soon. Of course in a perfect world then we wouldn't have these issues but reality is that culture and male ego in particular have ruined lives in countries where islam coincidentally is the religion. The west in my opinion has evolved out of a lot of this patriarchal rubbish and oppressive cultures, but sadly elsewhere in much poorer countries with lack of education and interaction with outsiders, this isn't the case.

[JaneParker]

A legal system which gives women half the weight of men when giving evidence in court and says daughters inherit half what a son does (even with the supposed protection that women can keep all the income they earn during their life) is discriminatory on gender grounds. I can certainly agree with you that the Koran says men and women should both cover up but I see few groups of Muslims in the UK where men and women cover up to the same extent although i agree some do not cover up at all whether male or female.

I would love a religion where I can have 4 husbands and a man only 1. That seems to be another bit of intense sexism in Islam.

If you take the Chinese for example where millions of baby girls are murdered each year because they are female when they come to the UK the men and women work very very hard and they are not sexist and bring things that help British people - they have a work ethic and often a world view that is enhancing for the population amongst which they work. Muslim families where women don't work don't. At Christmas at a hotel we were at a hotel and my daughter was utterly appalled to be next to a table every day where the men (fat arab etc ) sat on their fat idle male bottoms all meal times whilst the women got up to serve them their food. I hope all those coming to the UK can be persuaded that that sort of thing is not on and is disgusting and change their practices. We have to express our outrage and luckily live in a country where we can express these views. That is not to say the UK is free of sexism of course. We work on that on a daily basis too.

[MissThang]

"I would love a religion where I can have 4 husbands and a man only 1. That seems to be another bit of intense sexism in islam"

I'm pretty shocked at having heard you've worked in the Middle East and presumably come across Muslims, that you would make this kind of silly statement. It's common knowledge to anyone who knows a bit of islam that men can only take subsequent wives for a legitimate reason. Not for lust. The qur'an is explicit about this. If a woman is a widow, or has a child, is in financial difficulty or whatever reason, it' works well in many of those kinds of circumstances for a man to take care of her needs. Regardless of what so called Muslims do in the name of islam by taking lots of wives for the wrong reason, this is not Shariah being applied correctly, once again.
And may I ask what would you benefit having four husbands? Four guys to deal with? Sex? Paternity issues regarding potential children?

[JaneParker]

1 to clean the house. One to help earn money. One for sex - the best looking one. One to cook.

Every religion and culture on the planet that has more than one wife never has it the other way round. It's all very sexist. Even FLDS - USA fundamentalists mormons- you only go to heaven if you have 3 wives but no scope for wives to have 3 husbands.

Of course I know Muslim men with more than one wife. Osama BL had one on each of 3 floors of the property - they never left the house. The Saudi royals will tend to give the first wife the most status and later wives though being younger and sexier get more sex and are paraded out more as the current piece of fluff on your arm.

I can also understand that in a culture over 1000 years ago in rural deserts where men often abandoned wives and women found it hard to keep themselves that saying instead of dumping wife after wife for a younger model you have to keep on feeding and keeping the rejects was then in those days (but not now) protective of women. In its day it was a kind measure but utterly inappropriate for today. Sadly there are other men who take the new "wife" for a couple of days to get some sex with her and then divorce her. Most of course cannot afford to keep two wives I agree.

[MissThang]

I just hope that at some point in the near future, the real Islam is practised instead of this cultural rubbish we see everywhere. All I can do as a Muslim myself is to bring up my own children to follow Islam properly and particularly for them to be aware of issues that will no doubt affect them in future. I fear for them due to the actions of others that influence a great many people in this world to think Muslims are dangerous strange people.

[MissThang]

Oh and four husbands may sound fun but no way would I want it...dh and I are knackered enough as it is with the kids..no way would I want three more people to deal with

[JaneParker]

Well sister wives tend to mean more help with chores not vice versa so surely having men in the equivalent role would make light work of housework and childcare and all the rest.
You have to admit the Koran is full of sexism which might have been protective in a very protectionist "women are property" way which is not appropriate for today. It does not say the following - it is as ever the sexist way round.

"And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such men as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course. "

[LadyNexus]

To be very honest I really wouldn't put much stock in what the new survey of the day says.

They didn't ask me, or anybody I know. I'm willing to bet they didn't ask you or anyone you know. Maybe even not asked anyone on mn or who they know

There will always be bigots, and there will always be people who endeavour to enlighten said bigots.

But until the day a survey asks every god damn one of us don't take it as a representation of Britain

[MissThang]

The qur'an is not full of sexism I'm afraid. I suggest you read it and put any questions to a scholar who can answer them instead of interpreting scripture with such an agenda, not to mention the fact that the original language is Arabic. Not the English translations so many completely misunderstand.
For someone who claims to have worked in the Middle East I have to say I'm disappointed with your lack of basic knowledge..and general awareness. A lot of what you have kept harping on about just sounds like headlines from the best Islam bashing newspaper around. Like I said, if islam and the Qur'an were sexist, I, a young educated woman with the world at my feet so to speak, would never ever have converted to it. Pretty simple. But I'll leave it there now as you're not open to understanding things despite me giving you proof and clarification. Cheers

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...it is through diversity that we learn, we grow and we celebrate eachother. Without diversity we go nowhere. Without nurturing diversity, we silence each other and ourselves.

YY Kiran, I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately it looks like we are taking a step backwards in the UK. More and more am I seeing views on MN and in RL that are: "if you don't look/believe as I do, you are stupid and/ or dangerous". I too worry for our future in light of this because it demonstrates that we have not learnt the lessons of history and so are more likely to repeat the mistakes of the past. Know your privilege should extend to everyone.

[JaneParker]

I am pro immigration and like diversity but I am glad I live in a place where I am allowed to say most Muslim states are sexist and I do not want any of that "diversity" here if it means more houses where girls are not treated equally. I have no problems with freedom of religion as long as it does not impact on other freedoms of people here although I would like all religion removed from all state schools of all kinds.

I was involved in a minor way in Iran with the feminist movement. Women there have fewer not more rights than they used to have. It is that backward movement which is an issue.

It only by having freedom to express different views and people choosing to talk to people with different views that we all learn about and live happily with each other. Communication is at the heart of this. We need to aid communication between different peoples in the UK.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Jane, you seem to confusing diversity with misogyny. Misogyny is not a Muslim problem. It exists in all societies, classes and religions.

[JaneParker]

Absolutely but sadly more of it has been brought to the UK by sexist religions and cultures in recent years. In other words there is a valid point that religious tolerance can be taken so far that we re-introduce pernicious sexism into the UK. There are some moral absolutes that are more importance than tolerance. It is where you draw the line. I was watching some youtube films about FLDS (Christian) yesterday which were fascinating and that is Christianity - although gosh a very small group, 10,000 people only and very sexist.

I am happy that the UK is diverse. I am a free market libertarian but it is certainly the case that immigrants from Muslim states are much more sexist than say the ones who come in from Sweden or the US. We cannot ignore that issue - just look at the Birmingham state schools investigations. I would also include in all this the few jews who are strictly orthodox too and that can be even more pernicious because not only may the wife not work and have 15 children but also the husband might spend a life praying whilst living on state benefits.

Back on the thread topic although everyone should be vigilant and not discriminate on grounds of race/colour etc, I believe the UK is one of the better countries on the planet for tolerance and that next year's general election will be a two horse race between Labour and the Tories. Vote Conservative.