How do I find out if DD (6) is G&T ?

[Feelingforty]

My DD1 is 6.5 & literally hits the floor running & has done since a baby. I've read the threads on here & ticked the boxes asking if certain things apply. Most of them do.
She bombards me with questions, talks non-stops, very determind. Dd2 is 'normal'. I am exhausted by DD1 (hence me searching). She is very well behaved at school, works well etc. Her reading progress was initially slow, but she seems to have grasped it now & she is working through the books. She always has a pen in her hand, writing, drawing.

I am wondering if I am trying to find an answer, because I thought the school might have picked up on her if she was G&T ? BUT I have just found out that her english teacher isn't aware she is left handed (gives her the right handed paper for spellings, whereas a friend in a difference class has the lefthanded paper) .

Can someone advise & or point me in the right direction please ?

[smee]

FF, should have added that from what I've seen of my son's classmates, several others could have been chosen instead of DS, as many of them are bright and plenty are sparky. It does seem a bit random imo.

[smee]

FF it's up to the school to set criteria and they don't always tell the parents anyway. DS is in YR1 and is on the register, but I only happen to know because I saw a list by accident. Then talking to DS I realised he was being taken out of class once a week. It's a two class intake, so 6 kids from his year and 6 from yr2 join up. The other two from his class are v. obviously gifted academically, but DS can't read v.well at all yet - he's getting there, but I'd guess is average, certainly nothing more. He is v.articulate and right through from nursery we've had comments about his imagination and inventiveness, so am guessing that's why he's been chosen. G&T hasn't been mentioned to us or to the kids though - seems v. sensible to me tbh and am glad he genuinely hasn't a clue.

[Feelingforty]

Overthemill, it's so frustrating having to push all the time. I'm glad you resoved it at all. And absolutely right with knowing the right support to give.

Romanarama, thanks - I am very chatty & can talk, BUT DD1 has a habit of turning things round, which results in her talking AT me & generally I don't get a word in edgeways ! DD2 fortunately allows me to answer questions, DD1 questions my answers. I am applying her energy to outdoor pursuits at the moment, she does puzzle books with DH & reading with me every night too.

Dundermifflin, didn't you want your DD to have extra lessons ?

I agree with the reading - I am wondering if she is G&T, if this has been overlooked by the reading. We made great progress with different books & now she is racing through them. It's a failing of the school, from what I have read, to base this on reading.

[mistlethrush]

Ds ticks most of the boxes on the list too - although not yet with the reading - he is only 4.5 though, and I specifically didn't teach him to read as it got me into so much trouble being able to read by the time I got to school....

Flight - I was diagnosed as mildly dyslexic at about 15 - school hadn't picked up on it, my mother took me to see a friend who was an educational psychologist to find out why I got such low marks in French compared to everything else... I was being marked on written work/tests and couldn't write a sentence without at least 1 mistake so had lots of marks taken off....

[Flightattendant]

sorry not the test itself on the sites, just it's listed as an option with fee

It needs doing by a qualified person, it's timed and so on in places. Wide Ranging Intelligence Test.

[Flightattendant]

FF it's on some of the dyslexia assessment sites, that's how I found out what it costs...the lady we saw is dyslexia specialist. Your school may well have details of someone local, ours knew of her as several of the kids go to her in school hours for one to one.

Other tests are more expensive I think but this is a good general guide imo.

[Flightattendant]

Sometimes kids who are very intelligent don't perform well in school literacy and have trouble with reading/writing...ds is certainlt forging ahead with this now, but last year it was very much 'he is below range' 'he has a lot of catching up to do' etc etc
very demoralising and he has a negative opinion of himself due partly to this I think.

He was always far far ahead with everything verbal, so we knew he was a bright thing but shcool really seemed to ignore his potential and concentrated on the things he wasn't much cop at.
Frustrating for a parent and the child of course. I'm so glad we had the assessment. Feel like going in and shouting at the teachers 'Look! I told you he was clever!!'

but shall resist.

[Feelingforty]

Flightattendant - thanks, that's also very helpful. Great news that it has helped you & DS, am hoping to find something similar. I will google WRIT to see what I can find. I know what you mean about the manual

[Romanarama]

Those questions are too subjective imo. My ds1 (7.5) is quite obviously 'g&t' though that doesn't exist as a concept in the French school that he's in. My approach is to feed his reading habit and talk to him a lot. We do a lot of quiz games that are about general knowledge or verbal reasoning. He is very happy, doing great at school, and I don't want him to go to Cambridge to do a PhD at 14 so hope it doesn't go any further.

Give your dd loads to read, including science-type books for her general knowledge. Engage her in conversation even if you're exhausted by it. See whether there are extra-curricular activities that will captivate her too and use some mental energy. Tbh reading is the main thing they do at school at that age, so if she was slow to get going at that, that's probably why she's not on a g&t list.

[DunderMifflin]

My DD's on the G&T register at her school but there's certainly no extra resources or lessons, etc provided for her - I thought it was just another measure to check schools were monitoring all pupils.

Actually, I've just remembered that we were told she could go for extra lessons on a Saturday morning -

[overthemill]

just had my dc diagnosed with mild dyslexia after years of asking about it (now yr 9). he had iq test at same time and is really really high iq. kind of expected this as he is really high achiever in all but written stuff/english. now he has been G&T across teh board (previously for 3 subjects, older sister is G&T for 5 subjects, younger sister who is just as frighteningly bright as the other 2 G&T in zilch!!?) he is astonishingly quick at all learning - way off any scale i can think of (and quite scary for a parent ifswim). this helps him and us as we can see what support he needs and what support school can give - his disruptive behaviour is a sign taht he needs additional support. helps me so much and now not so cross with him

[Feelingforty]

thank you - she is ticking 20 of those of those boxes...It would be helpful to know what the contents of the teachers checklists, I wonder if they differ from school to school.

I've now rung the school & asked for a meeting with her teacher.

Interestingly my neighbours daughter has just been put on the G&T list at age 11. She went to the same school as DD1 & wasn't recognised there.

Thanks for putting the list on. It's a great idea, in case others are interested.

[Flightattendant]

Feelingforty, she sounds similar to ds who is the same age.

School hasn't picked up on anything but the other day he was given the WRIT assessment by a specialist teacher (we know privately, but you should be able to find one locally)

it costs about £40 I think

it takes an hour and a half or so

gives a broad picture of intelligence etc plus any problems

I did it because I was worried about ds' literacy, he seems v bright but struggles with that. Turns out he has possibly 'moderate dyslexia' but with an atypical profile ie he can do most things someone with dyslexia shouldn't be able to so it may just be immaturity

she found he is on 98th/99th percentile of iQ/cognitive ability (shocked by that but useful to know!)

tbh I think school thinks he's quite dim, but he definitely isn't. You could try and get someone to do this, it has certainly given me a bit of a hand in understanding him. I am the sort of parent who wishes each child came with a detailed manual but as that's not the case, this kind of thing is next best iyswim!

Am just going to inform school and show them the report, they need to work with his abilities and not label him. I think this will help.

[CirrhosisByTheSea]

here is the other bit:

Identification methods
Schools have the discretion to decide how best to
identify their gifted and talented pupils but are
likely to obtain the best results by drawing on a
wide range of information sources, including both
qualitative and quantitative information. A range of
popular methods for identification are listed below.
1 Teacher/staff nomination
2 Checklists
3 Testing- achievement, potential and
curriculum ability
4 Assessment of children's work
5 Peer nomination
6 Parental information
7 Discussions with children/young people
8 Using community resources

[CirrhosisByTheSea]

I've opened the document - here is the info that might help on what they are seeing as G & T kids:

General characteristics of gifted
and talented learners
The following characteristics (taken from the 1998
Ofsted review of research by Joan Freeman) are not
necessarily proof of high ability but they may alert
teachers to the need to enquire further into an
individual?s learning patterns and ability levels.
He or she may:
l be a good reader;
l be very articulate or verbally fluent for their age;
l give quick verbal responses (which can
appear cheeky);
l have a wide general knowledge;
l learn quickly;
l be interested in topics which one might
associate with an older child;
l communicate well with adults ? often better
than with their peer group;
l have a range of interests, some of which are
almost obsessions;
l show unusual and original responses to
problem-solving activities;
l prefer verbal to written activities;
l be logical;
l be self-taught in his/her own interest areas;
l have an ability to work things out in his/her
head very quickly;
l have a good memory that s/he can access easily;
l be artistic;
l be musical;
l excel at sport;
l have strong views and opinions;
l have a lively and original imagination/sense
of humour;
l be very sensitive and aware;
l focus on his/her own interests rather than on
what is being taught;
l be socially adept;
l appear arrogant or socially inept;
l be easily bored by what they perceive as
routine tasks;
l show a strong sense of leadership; and/or
l not necessarily appear to be well-behaved or
well liked by others.

I will post again in a sec, as there was also a bit on tools for teachers to use to identify kids

[Feelingforty]

thanks - that's helpful. I would be happy (or DH!) to pay £400-£500 if it helped.

I've looked on the school website - nothing, the council's website & then came across this.the department for Gifted & talented children & unfortunately, I can't open the link.

One of the points made is that G&T can underachieve, which I obviously don't want to happen. And I expect I am missing out on areas..like taping into what makes her tick. She bright, lively, inquistive, she is also sensitive, articulate, has an excellent memory, determind...it's a bit like a forklift truck banging at my door every morning ! Someone has suggested extra sensory...which I will google in a mo...

FWIW, my other DD had a hearing problem. I went to the HV, got on to the wait list for audiology, who confirmed it, then SALT. And now she is speaking very well (in a year) (no grommets, we took her off dairy, which cleared her blockages.)
My point is, I am SURE DD would be SO much happier & I would too!. I just need to know how.
Thanks

[mistlethrush]

What books is she reading/what sort of number games etc does she do... this would be a much better indicator of G&T. The fact that she's always writing or drawing doesn't mean that she's G&T. Neither does the 'hitting the floor running', talking all day and always asking questions - that sounds just like my ds!

However, I do think that the Left-handed set-up for the spellings does sound a good idea.

[TheresSnowDragonHere]

My gut feeling is that what you describe isn't G&T, just bright, lively and inquisitive.

[CirrhosisByTheSea]

That's a very good point Feelingforty - alot of what schools do (it seems to me) is very un-transparent and we're not in on the criteria they use to judge stuff! I've just looked on my local council's website and can't find any reference to 'able child' or 'gifted and talented' on their website.

Does your dd's school have a website? It might be worth having a look on there in their policies and procedures section.

She does sound bright as a button and very hard work. the other thing that occurs to me is that really, if she's working well at school, then even if she's identified as G & T then that won't really change things for you at home. Might be worth going down the ed psych route because they may be able to suggest strategies for stimulating her at home which might stop you being so drained by her. Though have to say, unless the school refer her (doubtful if she's coping well at school) then it's £400 or £500 quid privately.

[Merrylegs]

Ah, I think you are confusing the issue then.

'Gifted and Talented' is a label used by the school to identify the top 10% in that school in a particular subject so that, if the provision exists for it, they may benefit from extra learning or activities.

However, I think you may be talking about 'Gifted' as in a child with unusual or perhaps abnormal ability beyond her years. These children often seem 'at odds' with their peers?

Is that what you mean?

[Feelingforty]

I'd like to know because it would help (me) understand her behaviour. Her DS is the complete opposite, very calm etc.

If I can understand what is going on with DD1, the whole family will benefit. If she's not G&T, then I'll have to look somewhere else.

As I've asked, is there some sort of official assesment/checklist ? - there must be one within the school, so is there one available to parents ?

[NotAnOtter]

g and t is only top 10% of that particular cohort
i would not worry - means nowt anyway

[Merrylegs]

Why do you want to find out if she is G+T? Do you think she is missing out on extra-curricular activities provided by the school because she hasn't been identified?

[Feelingforty]

CirrhosisByTheSea thanks - I am so glad at least someone understood me.

For those others who seem to want to pick at the left handed paper. If you are left handed & on a weekly basis, take spellings home to copy & learning, THE SCHOOL (not me) provides this. It's not something I;m asking you lot to debate on. My point is, as her english teacher (not her form teacher), has NOT picked up her lefthandedness, then I feel she may have overlooked the potential for G&T. So I am asking..is there a some sort of government/official checklist I can look at, before I ask the school ?

Yes, she does cope & I've watched her doing it, but no-one is asking righthanders to cover their work & copy it at the same time.
PS She can use normal scissors & a normal ruler fine.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I'm torn on the left handed thing. I'm a leftie, and although I can see the usefulness of all this stuff (and I do really want a LH ruler), I get at my students who say they just can't do anything without the right equipment. I just feel it's best for them to learn how to use RH stuff too, as we live in a RH world, and not everywhere falls over themselves to accomodate us to the same extent that schools do.