Gifted In Science

[HinHin]

We will be moving to UK next year from Australia with our boy age 12

He is 5 years ahead in Science and 4 years ahead in Maths. He had his first external exam (equivalent to GCSE level) at the age of 9

We can not afford London

Can someone suggest what schools we should look at for 13+ entry

[Ta1kinpeece]

Richard Feynmann went to normal schools in his correct year group right through.
His parents made him work hardest on the subjects he was less good at.

If your son makes arithmetic errors he will fail in a Physics degree.

[Maarias]

Hi again I do understand. He sounds like he has similar interests to my son but obviously not as advanced. He has just done 11plus and confused everyone because he gets complicated maths but struggles but makes silly mistakes on basic maths.
He also loves science. It's his hobby and he reads about it avidly - he always impresses older scientists with his in depth knowledge of the subject. Personally I would never do anything with that right now - he can't write great English yet and it all goes hand in hand IMO. That's just my view. Good luck with everything.

[HinHin]

Thanks marrias just to clarify that he is very careless hence making basic arithmetic mistake. He is one of the top students in the IB level 1 maths class this year but occasionally got the easy calculation wrong but never have problem on the harder questions. For physics, he just became top of the year within year 12, so this has justified his advancement. From what we discovered in his advancement this 5 years, since year 4, he tends to do better in the more challenging questions, hope this situation will get better when he gets older
He might lose his interest in learning if we put him back to the normal age class in U.K. This is something we try to avoid

[Maarias]

I'm confused. If he's making basic arithmetic mistakes he's not that advanced. My DS is a science nut too but makes mistakes in basic arithmetic. I would never consider moving him ahead as basic Maths is vital. Btw you need really good basic maths skills for all the Grammars and top independents so personally I would just work on that first before moving him up a few years.

[JustRichmal]

HinHin, your attitude to learning seems similar to mine. I too do not want dd to go to uni early, but while she is enjoying learning I see no point in slowing her down just because she is going faster than most. I too do not care if she is brighter or not than others; the goal is learning, not competing.
However, from this thread you will probably gather it is not a universal view. Lots of schools, as well as parents, do believe a child's rate of learning should be capped. You really do need to not just find a good school, but find out in advance what they would do to educate your ds.
Do not assume because he was educated with year 12 in Australia the same will automatically happen here.

[yeOldeTrout]

Aren't a lot of university lectures open so that anyone from the public could walk in, or ask to sit in as long as they weren't disruptive? We had a thread about that & the consensus seemed to be "It can't hurt to ask."

[thehugemanatee]

When I was at school I took a first year class at the local university. Not sure how it was all arranged. But if he's that far ahead , look into if he can take some college or uni classes while he's at school (mine was an evening class).

[HinHin]

I have no doubt there are loads of bright kids in uk, same as Australia
However I have seen many bright kids not been recognised and challenged, they would eventually lose interest in learning
This is what I do not want to happen on my one

[MrsWobble3]

The Royal Institute runs a series of maths lectures at Imperial for years 10 and 11. Students are offered places by invitation based on teacher recommendations. I don't know which schools they ask but whoever runs the Maths Circle should be able to tell you so that might give you a list of schools to consider.

[HinHin]

I have no intention at all to put him into university early but like to keep him challenge and maintain his interest in learning
His other subjects are quite good but at age level so finding a school to accomodate him for 5 years is our aim

[AllTheShoes]

user Thanks, I did wonder if FE was the right terminology and clearly it was not, and hopefully your input will help the OP ask the question in the right place.

Btw, I'm not in favour of acceleration at all. I just thought the OP wasn't asking about the merits of it, but more about what to do given her circumstances.

[user1474361571]

In 20 years I can count the number of radically accelerated kids I have known in university maths/physics on the fingers of one hand. All of them crashed and burned.

Tao is the exception. He is not the rule.

Ruth Lawrence is a very well known example in the UK. She did OK at the beginning but then fizzled out and is well behind where a ~40 year old academic would usually be. She chooses not to accelerate her own children.

There are a few mildly accelerated kids coming in to maths/physics degrees one or two years early. Some do very well, some do averagely, some lack maturity, some are indistinguishable in maturity from others. Schools will (I think, rightly) be much more open to skipping by one year than to radically accelerating by many years for maths/physics. Schools will also offer pullouts from standard maths/physics to do e.g. computing, an extra language, music lessons for kids who are very advanced so that the kids don't get bored by basic maths. However, this is not what OP or posters on this board seem to want.

[JustRichmal]

What I would say is that very few kids who are accelerated in this way actually end up studying maths and physics at university.
I think quite a few do. Just as an example there is the OP's fellow countryman, Terence Tao. I'm sure there must be more. It would be an interesting statistic to follow up on.

[user1474361571]

For the original question: make a list of selective private schools in the area of interest and talk to them.

"Top school" usually means well-known and over-subscribed. It does not necessarily mean the most academically selective. It does not necessarily mean that they cater better for very bright children than other schools. Plenty of very gifted kids enter the very top university courses from moderately selective private schools and (of course) from selective and non-selective state schools too.

[user1474361571]

I'd suggest putting a thread in further education called something like 'Admissions Tutors - which non-London schools do your brightest physicists come from?'.

Physics is not taught in further education colleges but in institutions of higher education. It would be appropriate to put the question on the higher education board or in academics corner.

I don't think OP actually wants to hear what academics think of putting kids into classes several years ahead of their age. What I would say is that very few kids who are accelerated in this way actually end up studying maths and physics at university. The few kids who do start studying university maths/physics more than a year or two early tend to hit significant road blocks in terms of maturity, lack of independent study habits, communication and writing skills etc.

BTW higher level mathematics has very little to do with arithmetic but it would nonetheless be sensible to work on accuracy in basic operations.

you may be surprised that he is amongst children just as bright or brighter - but they have not been accelerated or put in for exams as the school not only wants to challenge them but also nurture them in to rounded young adults

This is probably the single biggest difficulty for radically accelerated kids - realising that they are not necessarily the smartest, just because they were accelerated. Very few of the world's leading physicists and mathematicians were accelerated through school.

[JustRichmal]

With 121 teaching, I'm sure there are many more children who could go through the curriculum faster. Some parents do not see this as a good thing and it is their choice not to teach or let their child do online learning at home. Both approaches are parents doing what they see as the best way of educating their child.
IME I found the "adding breadth" to their learning, usually meant teaching them nothing, but giving them a more difficult worksheet to do when they finished the easy stuff.
I have never had any problem with other parents, but then most parents do not know or if they do, do not have any issue with it. I never really talk to any of them about it.

[yeOldeTrout]

How is he at drama, PE, catering, English, DT, German, French?
Does it really make sense to work so hard at pushing what he's already good at if he's ordinary at the other stuff
He's going to have culture shock, anyway, why not make one thing he can relax and easily excel at while he still has to work hard at the others.

[AllTheShoes]

I'd suggest putting a thread in further education called something like 'Admissions Tutors - which non-London schools do your brightest physicists come from?'. That way, you'll get a view of which schools are good at supporting and encouraging children like your son.

[pieceofpurplesky]

Many state schools are excellent you know. Not every parent with a gifted child can afford private and these children do very well. Where I work we have all sorts of extras for our gifted children - and you may be surprised that he is amongst children just as bright or brighter - but they have not been accelerated or put in for exams as the school not only wants to challenge them but also nurture them in to rounded young adults.
Look around and visit schools when you arrive - find the one that fits your child

[HopeClearwater]

He is top in year 12 physics and top 5 in year 12 maths but still making careless basic mistakes

Then he shouldn't be in those groups. He needs to consolidate his basic arithmetic first.

[LIZS]

Whitgift or Trinity in Croydon ? One of the private "grammar" schools such as Manchester? Where is work likely to be based?

[JustRichmal]

This is some of the reasoning schools give for not putting children into higher classes. However, I also know of instances of younger children being educated in the 6th form for maths. It really does depend on the school.
Also there are other solutions. Dd does most of her studying at home and then gets some help in lessons, but just quietly gets on with A level work in class and also gets some teaching in a lunch time.
Another difficulty you are going to hit is that the A level maths exam is changing. This is the last year for starting on the old system and next year will be the first year of starting on the new system.
I realise this has wandered off from your original question of what school. but I do think it is worth contacting perspective schools in advance to see what their solution would be.

[IsayIdontknow]

Maybe you can contact Kings College London Maths School, it's a sixth form college specialized in Maths so they might be able to give you some advice?

[HinHin]

The simple arithmetic mistake is like 4+2, he is very careless on simple questions

[HinHin]

Thanks he has no problem mixing with the senior students
He is top in year 12 physics and top 5 in year 12 maths but still making careless basic mistakes