is anyone else uncomfortable describing their child as gifted

[dalziel1]

.. or talented.

Both my boys are very good some aspects of school work. one of them has an excellent memory and the other can work out complex mathematical things without having the usual explanations first. He always gets the right answer, but very often, he is unable to describe the process by which he got there.

i think most people would say that my boys are highly able or intelligent, but they aren't gifted (or talented). They can't sing or make a musical instrument play beautiful music, they can't draw or paint, and I seriously doubt that either of them will ever make a scientific breakthrough, write a classic novel or prove a mathematical hypothesis.

To me G&T is a misnomer, and its actually an unfortunate label for a child to accept for themselves.

[mathanxiety]

I really don't like labels unless they are being applied and used intelligently and very discreetly and without the student's knowledge (and sometimes without the parents' knowledge).

Interesting article.. Sometimes the really gifted student presents as the child with the problems, the square peg. There is far more to it than achievement. In fact formal achievement often doesn't com into it at all.

[FastLoris]

It's a bullshit term because it tries to pretend we can somehow tell the difference between abilities children have for various environmental reasons, and abilities they've been mysteriously "gifted" with (by whom?).

We can't. All we can tell is that some people, measured at a particular point in their lives, are better at some things than other people.

I dislike it partly because it sends the wrong message to children, who should be encouraged to accept that they will get what they work for, not the fruits of some gift they were supposedly born with. But mostly I dislike it because it's bullshit.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I don't think the label means anything particular in the education system at all.
if you have a G&T child and are an involved parent you will know this anyway and unless the school are able to differentiate work to your particular subject or plough extra resources into their learning it seems worthless.

I think Miggsie makes a point about being told by people in the know that your child is G&T is the best indicator.
At school dd was G&T for music, just because she is. At 6/7 she was working professionally and in terms of voice has been assessed by leading educators to be 5 years beyond her age. She reduces audiences to tears (not that bad) and people tell her all the time that she has a gift.
To me this is different to being on G&T list at school because you happen to play 3 blind mice on a trumpet and the rest of your class can't.

[jeee]

My children's school used to send home letters from the G & T register, unsealed. I remember my son dancing down the street singing "I'm gifted and talented, I'm gifted and talented " (I did have words with ds about this). After this incident I spoke to the school and politely asked that such letters were sent home in a sealed envelope. The person I spoke to told me how nice it was that my son's intelligence was being celebrated. Er, yes. But what had he actually done that deserved celebration? And the letters continued to come home unsealed.

FWIW, my children aren't gifted in any real sense. They are, however, bright. And the school stretched them without the need for recourse to such labels. I don't actually know what the G & T activities were like as, generally my children refused to attend them (they clashed with sports activities).

[Branleuse]

I dont think it means anything much in real terms, although im sure its nice to hear that sort of thing about your child, and it would certainly be useful to know which subjects a parent could provide extra stimulation for their child in

G&T only really applies to certain school subjects rather than the child in general

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

The label meant absolutely nothing in primary school, other than access to a mostly very weakly run more able maths group once a week when they had the staff to run it.

In secondary school it seems to mean that dd gets to go on various outings and competitions for different subjects, which is all very well and fun and i'm glad she gets the opportunity , but actually I think there are other kids who probably need the encouragement. dd knows exactly what she wants in life and is working her way towards that.

She is genuinely gifted in one subject and for that we are grateful for any extra support and encouragement and competitions that the school give us and whilst they dont always get it quite right, dd is currently stimulated and happy.

on a personal level though I wish the subject wouldnt come up with almost all of my friends (I have one who celebrates alongside me in a genuine way and that is really nice) . I find it really awkward with most people. I am very proud of dd - she works hard to be where she is - but I just can't read their reactions when I answer questions about her. I try to keep it vague, but its not easy.

[ArcheryAnnie]

I think the G&T label is a poisoned chalice. Mine was labelled as such (for maths) for a while in primary, but I never mentioned it to him, or to other parents. He is reasonably bright, and but I have always told him that being bright isn't enough, and whilst being very bright is nice, it isn't unusual or that much of a big deal - you have to work hard as well.

[Miggsie]

I found it useful as it concentrated my mind on what DD needed.
She is talented in music (performs regularly and has had professionals comment on her ability) and gifted in an academic subject (constantly wins the school prize).

However it got me thinking on what she didn't find easy: interaction with some class mates, handling conflict, standing up for herself etc.
So I've concentrated on those areas and her emotional well-being - school sorts out the other two just fine.

I do not refer to her in RL as gifted or talented but if someone asks, I will say what she had done in a factual way, but only if asked.

Another parent uses the gifted label constantly and goes on and on about how gifted their child is and ignores other areas their child is weaker in by saying "as they are so gifted in X they don't really need to know about Y" - this includes making friends successfully. To me, that's when referring to the child as gifted gets to be a problem as it blinds the parents and teachers to possible areas where the child is weak or having issues and also places too much emphasis on the thing the child is good at and so I feel the child becomes expected to be good at that and only values that as part of themselves, and that others only value them for that. This can be negative later in life.

Also, DD goes to a school where they don't talk about gifted and talented - they just talk about ability and potential, for ALL the kids. They don't venerate a select few to the detriment of the rest (the reason we chose the school).

[dalziel1]

Talking of other parents who are competitive about the G&T thing, there was a mother of a boy who was G&T in maths in the same primary school class as Ds1.

DS1 joined the school in year 5 when the G&T children had already been identified and for whatever reason DS1's ability wasn't noticed by the teacher for a couple of months by which time it was too late to put him on that year's G&T program.

So, the other child and his mother didn't notice DS1 until year 6. When they did notice though, the mother treated it like I'd been deliberately misleading her and she tracked DS1 with a near obsession. She ended up demonstrating to me that she had better recall of DS1's test scores, in sequence, over several months than I did. It was really unnerving and quite irritating the way she kept cornering me to tell me where my DS was versus hers.

Meantime her son was avidly questioning DS1 about what he scored etc in the classroom.

Its not the right thing to do, really bad parenting, particularly un-mumsnetty, and its the only time I have ever done it, but I took DS aside and suggested that he might like to put some effort into beating the other boy. Two years later and they are both in the top set at secondary and DS1 has left the other boy trailing in his dust. Oddly, the other mother has stopped chasing me down in the street now.

I know I shouldn't have done it, but it felt good!

[PiqueABoo]

In school-world "talent" is the word for non-academic stuff and it's not supposed to be exclusively based on prior attainment e.g. a very good, seasoned peri. music teacher apparently saw something(!) and got DD put the school's G&T register at a very early stage, prior to any grades etc.

[Muskey]

When dd was put on g&t I told her not to tell anyone as I knew it would cause problems with other mums in the class (too many pushy parents who were always hanging around the school) as usual with many schools when you want to keep something private it always finds its way into the school yard. The problem in dd school was one parent in particular was obsessed with having her children on the g&t list even going as far as demanding that her dc were put on it (her kids were bright but not gifted as per the definition). The mum in question saw the g&t list as some sort of a badge of honour that she could wear. When in effect labelling a child g&t doesn't actually help them. When dd changed schools in year 5 she was again put on g&t list this time no one has found out and if they did I don't think it would matter to them any way.

[marne2]

My dc's school do not use the 'G&T' label, maybe because the school is a small one and only has around 18 children in each year group. We just get told what levels they are working at and where they are compared to others, Dd1 is top of the class in literacy and almost top ( not quite as good as her best friend ) at maths but she's given no label, her teacher tells me she's bright but I'm not sure how bright she really is and I have a feeling when she goes to high school next year there will be children a lot brighter than her. I just tell people 'she's doing very well', it's not a talent as such, she just enjoys learning.

Dd2 has ASD, she's pretty average at school but can play keyboard, drums and guitar by ear, I see this as a talent because she's never had a music lesson in her life.

[marne2]

My dc's school do not use the 'G&T' label, maybe because the school is a small one and only has around 18 children in each year group. We just get told what levels they are working at and where they are compared to others, Dd1 is top of the class in literacy and almost top ( not quite as good as her best friend ) at maths but she's given no label, her teacher tells me she's bright but I'm not sure how bright she really is and I have a feeling when she goes to high school next year there will be children a lot brighter than her. I just tell people 'she's doing very well', it's not a talent as such, she just enjoys learning.

Dd2 has ASD, she's pretty average at school but can play keyboard, drums and guitar by ear, I see this as a talent because she's never had a music lesson in her life.

[marne2]

My dc's school do not use the 'G&T' label, maybe because the school is a small one and only has around 18 children in each year group. We just get told what levels they are working at and where they are compared to others, Dd1 is top of the class in literacy and almost top ( not quite as good as her best friend ) at maths but she's given no label, her teacher tells me she's bright but I'm not sure how bright she really is and I have a feeling when she goes to high school next year there will be children a lot brighter than her. I just tell people 'she's doing very well', it's not a talent as such, she just enjoys learning.

Dd2 has ASD, she's pretty average at school but can play keyboard, drums and guitar by ear, I see this as a talent because she's never had a music lesson in her life.

[Lilymaid]

I am very glad that G & T wasn't a term used when my DCs were at school. I have one DC who was always described as "very able" and who has continued to fulfill his potential throughout school/university and work. The other wouldn't have qualified as G & T but has now almost caught up with his big brother academically. What most pleases us most is that both have grown up to be thoroughly nice people.
It is helpful for a bright child to be identified and given work appropriate to his/her ability, but the description "Gifted and Talented" doesn't fit - these children just happen to be rather better than average in some academic areas; they aren't rare creatures who could write symphonies at 5 etc.
(BTW I always kept quiet about DC's abilities ... so much so that years later people were still astonished at well he was doing!)

[Viviennemary]

Gifted is a word used far too much these days. Only a very few children are truly gifted. Good at maths, good at art, music and so on yes.

[PiqueABoo]

For me it's not about bragging, it's the etiquette and words for a couple of scenarios we've had quite a lot over the years:

a) Normal, decent parent enquiring how DD is getting along with X (sometimes: what level/stage) when I know DD is miles ahead of their child.

True answer: Really well, but she has an aptitude for X so...

b) Competitive parent trying to find out if there is some secret (an expert coach, tutor, lots and lots of practise or whatever) to account for DD being much better at X than their child.

True answer: There is no secret! They're not born as blank slates and the difference is because of her nature damnit!

When DD was 8yo we'd had more than enough of dancing around these near-impossible conversations, so decided it might help if she did something that none of their children did, thus avoiding the comparison and competition problems. We picked something that's out of most parent's comfort zones and I really wish we'd done that earlier. DD (being DD) does have an aptitude for Y and we can say what we like about it, answer any kind of query without any awkwardness.

[iseenodust]

It's not a term I use and DS doesn't know he was ever on such a list. I've said to some close friends/family 'he's on one of those lists' but only when I've known/had a very strong feeling that one of their children is too.
School didn't do anything extra but did differentiate well. As in most classrooms, the children including DS realised who was always 'top' in maths. I just always stress he's lucky to be able to pick up ideas/theories quickly.

Know what you mean about the awkward feeling though. We were with a group of friends plus DC when one mum joked 'don't know where my DS got his brains from but school say he is gifted in maths'. No-one responded with reference to their own children (probably because they were present) but I know the same was applicable to two girls and my DS. Harsh reality is that in that group of friends we are all graduates who have/had careers in science/maths areas. Probably not one of those children is gifted if using a decent definition but all brought up in households where an interest in shown in such things.

[dalziel1]

Personally, I would never brag to other parents. It just gets their backs up and sets you up for a fall when your DC does something less than wonderful.

The teenage years are still ahead of me as a parent, and I am not taking anything for granted!

[Theas18]

The g&t thing at school is a misnomer really. It's a status as thing - top 10% or so really not that special for most kids. Of course some will be off the scale but not many.

[grumpasaur]

I don't have a child- but I am comfortable describing myself as gifted :-)

[treadheavily]

No I have no problem with the school labelling my children as they are just trying to extend them (it's called higher learning potential where I am) and in fact think they are v lucky because they get to do all sorts of cool things. But I wouldn't be talking about it other than with the school or a parent whose child was also in the programme.

[tess73]

Dd was "defined " as gifted in literacy in year 2 (now yr6)
Nothing has been done by the school to develop, stretch, expand her literacy
Yr4 and yr5 SATS her maths score was higher than her literacy
She does ace verbal reasoning without any tutoring/prep
No G&T classes in school anymore (budget cuts)
Complete waste of time labelling her. Not that it was very overt - and I don't think it has affected her. It seems to take each teacher at least til half term to realise she is pretty good.
Anyway what I am trying to say is it was a totally pointless exercise but hasn't done her any harm as it is rarely mentioned/talked about.

[dalziel1]

I wonder if we are setting our children up for a fall by letting them think that either the term gifted or talented could be applied to them?

There are children who are gifted and/ or talented at something but they are rare - not 1 in 10. I know its just two English language words that have been hijacked by educationalists but do children get the subtle distinction between dictionary meaning and education terminology?

Average is another word that educationalists have hijacked and rendered meaningless. As far as I can gather, it means anything between 20% - 80% inclusive. However, "above average" is also somewhere in the 20-80% range- which doesn't make any sense.

[merlehaggard]

I think it's meaningless. My daughter is on the gifted and talented list at her school for music. She is 12 and has had music lessons since she was 5. No wonder that she is better than her non instrument playing class mates then!