Ok,assuming child is very able musically-what is next?

[Worriedandlost]

Dd1 is taking music lessons and considered to be good at it (piano/violin). Assuming that pattern continues, what is next? To carry on with private lessons as it is now or are there other ways? And what is about future, what are employment opportunities for the adult musicians? I have heard that music area is very competitive and low paid. The reason for the question is that dd1 is coming to the point where practicing takes too much of our time and this affects other activities, this is not to mention cost of the lessons, would be nice to know that there are at least remote possibilities to get something back out of it :)

[1805]

I don't know about French rates, only uk. sorry. I find getting work is as much "who you know" and the contacts you make, as much as doing a good job. Dh and I do not do solo work because a) we're not good enough/don't fancy it, b) do not have the contacts, and c) prefer a more static lifestyle with the dc.
Personally, I only started practising properly once I was at Music College.

I know that to get an orchestral job, you have to show that you fit in with the section as well as playing the right notes. Lots of people change career after music college because they can't find enough regular work. Theatre work is anti social hours, but fairly regular if you can get a long running show. Even then, many musicians will have additional careers such as teaching, plumbers, electricians, IT work that they run alongside their music career.

Definitely I see it as a vocation rather than a career.

[summerends]

Worried, I remember a recent article concerning a very young girl who learns music by improvisation in a similar way to musicians in Mozart's era were taught You might be interested in finding and reading it whilst you are fact-finding. Not sure whether it is a generally applicable or even a desirable teaching style now but others on this thread might have a more informed view.

[Worriedandlost]

BanjoPlayingTiger, our teacher takes children from 4yo. I do not think any of the teachers wrong, there are different schools of thought. I personally do not get Suzuki, but some people love it!

From my own experience, other things aside, there is a correlation between practice and result.

[Worriedandlost]

1805, you may be more relaxed about it all as you are a professional musician, you know the industry and at the end of the day you have some connections with the "right" people. As I said before, it also may be that I just have different life philosophy.

In 20 years time I would like DD to be adapted to the NT world and be a reasonably successful in occupation she likes.

[Worriedandlost]

mistlethrush, I do not quite see what exactly you mean, could you please explain?

[Worriedandlost]

summerends, this is true, and she likes just play with instruments as well as play old pieces on her own for example. Thanks about mentioning the article!

[MrsHoolie]

Classical sessions are the least well paid,I can't remember the exact rate but about £75 maximum for a three hour session. At my company we probably record one CD every three years.
Film rate sessions are well paid,about £159 per three hour session.
I have earned a fair amount from tv progs being sold around the world but that has pretty much gone down the pan due to buy outs.
I consider myself lucky to have a job,but then in always wanted one and didn't want to freelance so made sure I pushed myself in that direction early on.

[mistlethrush]

I meant that 'practice' and 'playing' are two different things - get the 'practice' bit concentrated - getting bits right that are going wrong, practicing certain new techniques, really thinking about what you're doing etc - then 'play' for enjoyment. The playing will also help of course - particularly on the musicality side of things - but it is not the same as the mentally tiring practice.

[Bemused33]

Dd plays sax and cello. She is 10 and a half now. Grade 3 in sax, cello - grade two. Both with distinction and not a great deal of practicing. She plays with two orchestras and a band. She loves it. She started the cello aged 8. The sax in januaru. We have been told she could be professional when older.

However we are putting no pressure on her if she plays she plays and this weekend spent her time designing a saxophone song for three people just of her own free will.

We are going to see how it goes.

I sung at school and have dabbled for years. I work in music part-time now. This year I started a choir and I love it. I have no music training but I have a good ear and while I will never hit the heights I adore it.

I think if it's there and it's where her heart is it's where she will go but of it's not then as long as she is happy I will support her all of the way. :) xxxx

[ElizabethJonesMartin]

3 of our children won music scholarships, a few grade 7s or 8 in 2 or 3 instruments by 13 which is fairly rare, and grade 5 theory etc BUT BUT BUT music is for most badly paid and can mean no chance to buy your own home or not easily so not surprisingly a lot of people who were the best in their secondary school at it and thought they would do very well as a soloist end up teaching lessons to children who often don't want to earn at a fairly low rate per hour. You don't do it for the money. You might do it because you love it and you can get by (or you might be the rare genius who becomes a leading soloist).

I kept my career as a hobby and that's worked really well. I recommend it. Keep paying for her lessons as music lessons apparently make children do better in academic exams as well as giving her a lovely hobby and by all means try music scholarships to private schools at 11+ but perhaps do not push her into a career in it.

[chocolatemartini]

it's never wasted

[ElizabethJonesMartin]

( I kept my "music" as a hobby (not career - typo))

[mistlethrush]

I agree Elizabeth - mine's a hobby that takes up a lot of time!

[pigsinmud]

I think you're thinking too much! Just let your child have a childhood.
My dh is a musician and would not encourage any of our dc to do it for a living. I am not a musician, but have to put up with one. It took me years to persuade him to have a holiday.....might get a gig. Plan a lovely weekend, oh last minute gig....you get the picture. The pre christmas season means I won't see him from next week until December 23rd!

Plus, my dh can be a bit shy. It's hard turning up to play with a group/orchestra and you don't know. Usually he knows someone there.

At the moment, one of our dc wants to be a musician but we'll see what happens.

[MrsHoolie]

Peripatetic music teachers earn more per hour than I do (in an orchestra)!

[mistlethrush]

MrsHoolie - can you imagine doing that all the time? I have done it, for one day a week, and that was quite enough. I have great respect for those that can do it day in, day out, but, unless you can get to the stage where you've only got the pupils that you actually want (and that want to learn and have a gift) it can be so difficult to continue to be upbeat...

[Motet]

OP - you suggested the bar was 'too competitive'. Music is horrifically competitive. If she likes practising that is great, but do keep options open - equally, keep an open mind. Music degrees at good universities have value in the job market - I know a barrister and a solicitor, both with first degrees in music.

But you have to keep an eye on the alternatives. It gets difficult for somebody who has trained at a music college and then tried to scratch a living for some years to retrain after 30 when they may also wish to start a family. It's difficult for female musicians with small children to tour constantly. Music teachers where I live are charging well below £20 an hour, which has to include preparation and travel time. Even if you are wealthy and feel that you could provide her with a private income or a mortgage-free property, you don't know what the future holds.

One friend has described the conservatoire system as effectively a pyramid scheme; far more students are enrolled than could ever earn a sustainable living. A small percentage will get posts in music colleges and then over-recruit the next generation of students.

Professional musicians generally have to earn income from 'something else' to cross-subsidize their vocation. It's easier to build a good career in one of the professions, enjoy good quality of life and have music as a serious hobby (look at Alan Rusbridger) than work primarily as a musician getting ground down by the compromises, unfulfiling teaching, worrying about home ownership and pension provision. Many freelance musicians work for as long as they can into old age and not only because it's their vocation; they are strapped.

[cory]

OP, I think one reason why some posters have been rather cautious in their replies is that you were talking initially of your dd's music lessons as a financial investment and seemed to view it as something that ought to pay off financially, a way of getting your dd safely settled.

If that is your main concern, a career in the performing arts seems an odd choice: there must be hundreds of other career choices that are far more predictable.

Having said that, there is plenty of evidence that music develops transferable skills which could help her whichever career she chooses. And having an enjoyable hobby is also something that is worthwhile for overall quality of life.

[MrsHoolie]

mistlethrush no I can't imagine teaching full time. In fact I don't do any at all although I did when I was a student.
A friend of mine teaches full time at a very prestigious private school which pays £35 an hour,she hates it and would much rather be playing (piano) but it is a good job in terms of hours and income.

I know a couple of freelance musicians who are also barristers. Luckily for then the are extremely talented in both fields so combine them. Amazing I think.

[MrsHoolie]

mistlethrush no I can't imagine teaching full time. In fact I don't do any at all although I did when I was a student.
A friend of mine teaches full time at a very prestigious private school which pays £35 an hour,she hates it and would much rather be playing (piano) but it is a good job in terms of hours and income.

I know a couple of freelance musicians who are also barristers. Luckily for then the are extremely talented in both fields so combine them. Amazing I think.

[MrsHoolie]

Sorry for posting twice.

[ElizabethJonesMartin]

There is an awful lot of crossover between lawyers and music and my view is that if your child could be a lawyer it can be rather nice to keep your music as a lovely hobby. You might even able to afford to subsidise your own orchestra or music charity in due course. Music has given me huge pleasure over many years (4 grade 8s etc )and yes I shouldn't say so but I am pretty good but it's a hobby and I would prefer that for our children as would their father who is a pretty brilliant organist and often has felt his parents should have encouraged him into something more lucrative.
However if your alternative career would be £6 an hour care home worker then yes your piano teaching at a higher rate per hour might indeed feel like an abundance of riches so I suppose it is all relative.

[mistlethrush]

I had a year off after my (music) degree - and travelled and played and studied and worked - and came to the conclusion that, if I did a masters I would really enjoy it, but not actually get any further forward - I didn't want to teach full time, and I didn't want to play full time (I could have done either with the appropriate post grad qualifications which I could have achieved) - so I found another profession instead. Its one that's a bit similar to law - and interprets law - not as well paid, but not bad, and interesting. It means I can play what I want, when I want (ie I don't have to play Beethoven 5 for the nth time that year). I actually sing more than I play though - although I've never done any grades....

[Worriedandlost]

Thanks for all the new answers, reading them all!
Many of you mention barristers-as if it were easier to become a barrister than a musician :))))!
I suppose it is more time than money that worries me. Including my time.

mistlethrush, you are not doing taxation by any chance, are you? :)))

[mistlethrush]

No, I'm not doing taxation. Or accountancy.

Music seems to go with medicine quite a bit... and there was a recent thread I saw asking whether medicine was a suitable aim for a child with Aspergers and I think that it was concluded that some branches were.