MMR yesterday (12 month old DS)... screaming agony - won't walk or crawl today??

[newmomma]

Well,
The title kind of sums it up.
My DS had his MMR jab yesterday and was fine for a couple of hours.

But within 2 hours he was crying inconsollably. I had no idea what was wrong - managed to get some dinner into him and then put him in the bath.

It became obvious in the bath (he's been walking for about a month now and LOVES to stand up and play with toys in the bath) that he wouldn't stand and was in quite a lot of pain.

He slept badly last night. This morning he's beside himself. He won't crawl or walk and if you try and move him he screams. It is his right leg - the leg that only had one injection, rather than 2. We've tried calpol and nurofen but it doesn't work. He keeps trying to stand and crawl but then stops and cried. Its so upsetting - he looks like a lame dog. I wish I could explain to him that he'll have to spend some time not moving about until it gets better but he's too young to understand.

I have spoken to NHS Direct last night - they said it definately wasn't a side effect of the MMR and to take him to the doctor.

We have an appt at 11.30 today - but I was wondering whether anyone else had experienced something like this with the MMR jab?

Thanks

(Sorry for the long post)

[DantesInferno]

Zombie thread from 2010

[karenz1]

my little boy was the same I ended up in a&e was like he's broken his leg slightest movement he screamed wouldn't walk or anything .He's three now and hes due the next set and I'm really panaking now on what to do as it was the mmr that he had in the leg that went bad . not sure i won't him to have them this time after that it was scary

[FlyingStart]

This may be way off, but worth suggesting.

The reaction you have described is very similar to that of someone I know, when she had her vaccinations many moons ago. It was in her arm and she has made a full recovery, even though she could barely use her arm for 6 months. It turned out that the nurse had injected the needle far too deep. The nurse admitted this btw, but since the person didn't react immediately - there was an hour's lapse before the pain began - the nurse said nothing at the time. Could this have happened in your son's case?

[PINKYKP]

my consultant DID say that boys can have adverse reactions to mmrs so unless you know otherwise I suggest you dont tell other posts off - they are expressing their experiences and can be useful to other mums!

[PINKYKP]

My son had his vaccine at 13 mths - 9 hrs later his temp went to 40.5 and projectile vomited. surgery told me to take him to a and e, he was photo sensitive, stiff, shrill cry and generally unhappy. After the obvious fear and thoughts of meningitus etc the consultant said it was an adverse reaction to the mmr vaccine- apparantly more common in boys and 1 in 10000!

[mousymouse]

Stars, I would report it to the yellow card scheme

you can read the package leaflet here

[DBennett]

@stars123.

I think the advice from NHS direct is sensible and probably correct.
But do have a low threshold for taking him to a G.P. walk-in centre (or A&E if not available) if things change.

@previous posts

As regards adverse effects to vaccines, anything appearing so close to a vaccination should be reported under a yellow card.

The reason being that it is almost impossible from one case to determine a causative relationship.

So you need all the possible causative relationships collected and then you can start looking for patterns.

And that's when the hard science gets done.

In the meantime, is it right to call it a single incident a vaccine reaction?

I can see arguments either way.

What I feel clearer on that if the initial impression is publicised (here on MN or in the media) and that impression turns out to be wrong, the follow up should get equal coverage.

So I'd like to thank newmomma for coming back on here when more information become apparent which points away from the initial reaction.

You just proved yourself better than most national newspapers (faint praise perhaps but I hope you'll take the compliment in the spirit it was intended).

[stars123]

Hi i would like to add that my 17 month son has had the MMR and pneumo shots this morning and we are having similar problems as newmomma
He was fine as soon as we left th doctors had some dinner then a 3hour nap (unlike him!) when he woke up he was soo upset and had a slight temp. After some calpol and cuddles i put him down expcting him to run off like he normaly does, instead he fell to the ground screamin, a couple of mins sitting on my knee he was happy again so tried puttin him down again - same happend just flopped! its now been 6 hours since he woke up and he cant stand nevermind walk without crying in pain. I noticed its only his right leg he has pain in, even tho injections in both.
I kno somthing is not right he is normaly so active, but has given up on even crawling now! He is fine in himself, no temp, no rashes or swelling, not even a mark where the shots went in. he is such a tuff little boy so he must be in a lot of pain!
I kno shots make the area sore but would never expect then to prevent mobility.
Iv phoned the doctors tried asking if nurse may have been too rough "oh no our nurse has been doing injections for years, has he not hurt his leg? we have no opointments today!" and NHS direct "you can give him ibrfen n calpol for 3days if no better see a doctor" neither think its serious
Im really upset cant stand seeing my baby in pain, debating going to A n E but worried he'l get more stressed

[kazkiss]

Hiya, just a quick note as to why you should treat temps over 40 c is that the enzymes in our bodies can 'denature' and die at temps that high. Also high temps in babies can cause febrile convulsions as the infant cannot regulate their own temps as well as adults. so you should NEVER leave a temp over 39c.....

[newmomma]

I saw the same doctor today, for a sepaarte issue, who I initially saw when my son was bad.

She looked up the hospital results and said that his ESR and white blood count levels were through the roof and it was unlikely to have been caused by a bad reaction to the MMR jab - it may have caused him pain but wouldn't have affected the bloods like that - she thinks it did imply some kind of infection.

She said to bring him back in a few weeks (he now has rotten cough/cold) and she'll check him over again - the only thing we could consider doing is to re-do the bloods, in her opinion, to see what the results now show.

Seems a little bit much to put him through whilst he's generally over the worst of what happened - but now he has several small lumps (like swollen glands) behind both ears and I just keep thinking, 'what if the blood test result did mean something and I'm missing it by not chasing it up with them'?

Perhaps it would be better to get the blood tests done again - if for nothing other than mine and DH's peace of mind that we've not been neglectful in not chasing up the doctors for a sensible answer as to what was wrong.

[TotalChaos]

I honestly don't know enough as to how far reactions would be localised i.e. whether MMR jab could affect the other leg. I would definitely be inclined to continue trying to follow things up, rather than forget about it, so you have as much info as possible when considering any more of the routine jabs for your DS.

[newmomma]

Well.
The frustrating latest update to the story is that I bumped into the nurse who did his jabs yesterday at the docs. I asked her to check what injection had gone into his right leg (he had 2 in his left leg and only 1 in his right) and she went and dug out the records.

Turns out he had the pneumococcal (sp?) in his right leg, which he's had previously at the early baby imms they do.

So I find it very hard to believe that whatever was wrong was a reaction to the injection. Coincidence or not. I know it cam on within 2 hours but he didn't have anywhere near the reaction last time that he did this time and as it wasn't the MMR that went into his bad leg...

Which leads me to wonder whether I should follow it up with the hospital?

The consultant we'd been seeing said that the MMR jab was a big needle and a lot of fluid to inject into someone so small and would explain (?) the pain he was in - but the pneumoccocal is only 0.5 ml or something tiny so very unlikely it was that. And with his very high (ERM?) blood count results they queried a hip infection.

Should I get the hip infection checked out again - or just move on and forget about it as he seems to be on the mend?

[TotalChaos]

newmomma - it's possible (though of course may be an issue getting it through NHS) to check immunity to the MMR components by blood test to see if 2nd MMR is actually necessary. around 90% of children will be immune after 1 MMR anyway.

[ShowOfHands]

Oh gosh, I don't mean a littlie, I mean a toddler. I should have been more clear. I was responding to threebellies who had a child with an MMR reaction, so toddler not a baby.

You MUST always respond to a baby with a temp. Gosh of course.

And I wouldn't leave dd to 'burn off' an illness. When she has a temp I strip her off, put on a fan, keep her cool, offer lots of drinks and would sponge if necessary, though I never have. So I do treat her I suppose but don't artificially lower the temp as I see it as counterproductive.

I was merely saying that I would let dd have a temperature without giving medicine if it was just a temperature. I try to respond to her, not to the number iyswim.

[CirrhosisByTheSea]

newmomma, so glad your DS is getting better. What an awful thing for you to go through. Very scary.

Why not consider the single injections for your DD when the time comes. We did this with DS and have not regretted it, though we did have to pay privately as not available on NHS.

[mii]

I also wouldn't medicate JUST a temp, but certainly would sponge down/strip off/cool bath a child who had a high temp, not purposely let it 'burn off' the illness. Isn't that just myth?

[turtle23]

I didn't say 40 was dangerous, I said over. When a temp gets to 41+ it is apparently dangerous. Also in a child of 8 weeks you cannot KNOW that it isn't infection and by the time a child that age shows a very high temp they go downhill v quickly.

I do know fever has a purpose...just when you have a very little one it is very scary.

[ShowOfHands]

Oh it's okay if the hospital does it (ime the hospital give meds very differently to the guidelines on the bottle. DD was in hospital once when ill and they weighed her and medicated according to their own schedule). Was pointing it out in case anybody else read this, or you perhaps didn't know. It's always worth pointing it out just in case.

Why do you think a temp of 40 is dangerous, out of interest?

[Missus84]

I don't understand how water is an antidote to MMR either...

[turtle23]

SOH- wasn't me...was hospital that did that. I do think that a temp of over 40 is dangerous, personally.
The nurofem was too big a dose technically as well...should be 5 mg per kg...which means that even 2.5ml should be too much as he was 6 not 10 kg.

[ShowOfHands]

Completely eschewing all talk of homeopaths, mii I don't medicate a temperature. It's the body's natural reaction to illness and a method of fighting infection.

I medicate if dd is in pain and visible discomfort but I certainly don't dole out medicine for a temp. DD has had a temp all night before and I don't think it's dangerous in the slightest.

turtle, just a small thing in your post, but if you do give nurofen, make sure it's every 6hrs, not every 4. When you alternate with calpol, don't do every 2hrs as you're giving slightly too much nurofen in that instance.

[mii]

"She antidoted the MMR and he spiked a temp all night and we did not use anything to bring it down, the fever burned the diesease out of his body, and the next morning he was nearly fully well"

She antidoted the MMR with what?

You don't think letting a child spike a temp all night without treatment is dangerous at all?

The next morning he was fully well? which he probably would have been anyway

[FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010]

Your child is at risk from day one of mmr. Waiting a few weeks might be worth it.

[saintlydamemrsturnip]

Well yes. My point was that you do not have to decide by a certain day to vaccinate or not. If you want you can take longer. This is useful to remember if your child has had a vaccine reaction and you feel pressurized to decide by some externally imposed date. You can postpone.

There's also the option of requesting to talk to someone - your health authority will have someone designated for this role (usually a paediatrician). They may not be that much use - my local one doesn't even seem to know what Wakefield's theory is for example. Or there's the possibility of seeing someone like Richard Halvorsen to talk through the issues. He usually recommends vaccinating ime of talking to people who have seen him but sometimes on an altered schedule.

Ds1 and ds2 caught rubella from a vaccinated child btw. We knew it was likely to be coming given the exposure so stayed in during the infectious period.