Continued support for SPHINCTER INJURIES, FISTULAE and other CHILDBIRTH INJURIES - the Ragged Bits Thread

[Jacksmama]

Hi all,
old thread here.

Cyee started this thread in May 2008 after her op, and it's been a haven of support for so many of us who have injuries to our bits from childbirth. Especially with respect to sphincter injuries, fistulae and incontinence after childbirth, there seems to be such a lack of support for women, and the entire subject seems to be taboo. It's as if most MD's think that "a certain amount of damage is to be expected after birth and you just have to live with it". Well, that is simply not the case - and this attitude is unacceptable.

There are all kinds of Ragged Bits stories on this thread. Be aware that THERE IS NO "TMI" HERE - this is the one place where you can spill it all. If you read through the old thread, which is nearly full, you'll see that someone, somewhere, has probably experienced it - whatever it is! So don't be embarrassed or ashamed... we'll tell our poo stories if you'll tell yours.

And also - there are success stories here. Several of us who have been through the medical mill have been successfully "repaired" and are "fully functional", so to speak or even expecting again. In those cases, please join us for Pervwatch - the "after action" report for anyone who is once again venturing into marital relations!

Welcome everyone. We're sorry you had to find us, but we're glad you're here.

[ThingOne]

Which comment are you replying to Christie?

[Jacksmama]

Hi Triggles,
I'd suggest you ask to speak with an OB consultant or a pelvic floor physio about this - but, as ThingOne said, my gut feeling is, a subsequent vaginal birth would heavily impact your prolapse. I don't suppose you've considered/ asked about an elective C-section? I hope that's not an offensive suggestion...

ChristieF, I wonder if perhaps you've accidentally wandered onto the wrong thread? Because if not - all of us on this thread have suffered much, much more birth damage than the average woman. And while none of us would deny that having our wonderful children is a blessing, and that women's bodies do usually go through the mill a bit with birth, what we on this thread have suffered goes far beyond that. So telling is that "we have to look at it another way" is really less than helpful. Sorry to be a bit harsh, but this is the first 100 posts on the second Ragged Bits thread, and the posts on this thread are actually rather tame compared to the first thread. So not in any way truly indicative of what we've been through.

[ThingOne]

That was my concern too, Christie. I hope I'm wrong, but your post read to me as "be grateful for the pleasure of children and accept the damage as part of a woman's lot".

The people who post on this thread are women who have had far more severe damage, for example torn anal sphincters meaning they are incontinent. Some have had to have temporary or permanent colostomies while the repairs to their anus and rectum heal. Other have had a ano-vaginal fistula, a hole which sometimes mean you poo out of your vagina, or leak constantly.

These are not the normal, everyday "sore bits" after having babies. These are serious medical issues which have enormous physical and psychological effects on the women who end up with them.

The posters on this thread find that it's often difficult to get the right help for these problems, or too embarrassing and upsetting to keep on asking when ignored. Some have suffered with the problems for years.

My own problems are not related to childbirth but to complications following cancer surgery but I'm allowed to play here as not many other people know much about vaginal reconstruction.

[Hulla]

ThingOne what great news that they can fix it! I hope they get you a space on the list soon.

Christie HCPs used to say that to me after dd was born "It's all worth it to have your dd" and I hated it. It felt like a horrid trade off. I had her but I was so ill I couldn't look after her, I cried every day for 3 months, couldn't walk unaided for weeks, breastfeeding was a nightmare because I couldn't sit comfortbly. I think it affected how I bonded with my dd. I remember crying to mum saying "I don't want her" and mum saying "You do you're just not well". I will always feel guilty about that.

There is little comfort in that comment I'm afraid but I appreciate that you were probably trying to make us look on the brightside!

[nappyaddict]

Just wondered if anyone had heard from jmontan27 as I wanted to get in touch with them.

[kentmumtj]

oh my ......... i would have loved to have only had stitches after having 4 babies then i wouldnt have had to have this operation that has left me well with no sex life, soreness a lot of the time, etc although i am now able to pass a motion without help

not to mention that i still have to go back as i may have been sewn up to narrow ........plus others on here still requiring operations for other problems asscociated with giving birth and im incl thingone who still has operations to look forwad to.

It does make me a little cross as i am so thankful to ahve 4 lovely wonderful chidlren who mean everything to me and are very important people in my life but given the option that the hospital told me that if they knew one of my babies was going to be so big they would have offered me a c-sect maybe i would have taken it ......the point is i would have been given a choice........and yes having babies does take its toll on women we all know that but as human beings it can and does affect us psychologically as well as physically especially if we are not able to live the life that most women live following childbirth

i havent looked at statistics but im guessing we are not a high percentage

hmmmm will look into this i think as i could be wrong

[georgiegirl2]

I agree with the comments above. And I am not, and don't want to sound, anti-men, but I can't help feeling that if a large proportion of men found that their penises were damaged and no longer functioned as before as a consequence of becoming fathers this wouldn't be considered acceptable, or something to quietly put up with.

It bugs me that there seems to be an attitude that it's perfectly OK to never be the same again after having a baby.

We all know that having a baby takes some toll physically on every mother. In my own case, I had four and a half stone to lose after my second child's birth, I had a root canal treatment because of a rotting tooth which couldn't be treated during pregnancy, moderate stretch marks and a lot of dark pigmentation on my face. I could live with all this.

What is harder to live with is struggling with basic bodily functions because of childbirth damage, and losing all sexual confidence as a consequence as well. I adore my second dd, but her birth left me with hardly any perineum remaining, a daily struggle to open my bowels and no interest in sex (which has had a very negative effect on my marriage). I've just had surgery to sort this out. I know that others have had much worse experiences than I have. Being grateful for one's dcs and resenting the damage their births have caused are not incompatible. I have never resented or blamed my (10.5lb) dd for what happened (or even really regretted not having the c-section my consultant recommended), or felt any less grateful for her but I have struggled to come to terms with the body I was left with.

Women who are left badly damaged by childbirth deserve support,help and solutions, not to have to fight for this every step of the way. According to my surgeon more women are seeking repairs of childbirth damage these days and I think that's great. Good luck to everyone on here with post-childbirth problems in being listened to and helped to resolve them.

[Jacksmama]

I think a ((((((HUG))))) is called for, for all of us.
I'm on holidays and only have half a second to pop in but wanted to see if ChristieF responded at all - am thinking it was a case of "oops, wrong thread".

[Hulla]

Have a lovely holiday Jacksmama

[DUSTIN]

Hello everyone, I had my appt with the gynae consultant. I explained that I was still very sore after the 4th degree tear. He said I may be sore for months yet due to nerve damage (only been 11 weeks since birth of DD). He examined me- very painful and is referring me to the physio. Hopefully this will help. He asked me about my sex life- non existent!!! He said I just need to have confidence. Easy for him to say!! I wonder if he would feel the same if I kicked him repeatedly in the knackers and then said to him to go and have sex!!!!

Hope everyone else is as well as can be x

[Hulla]

@ DUSTIN. Have confidence? You know your own bits best. DH and I have still only managed to do it half of a time and that was at3 or 4 months (dd is now 6 months). It's something I feel awful about but tbh it never even crosses my mind these days. I do worry about the impact on my marriage.

Good news about the physio though, I believe that can have very good results (I didn't attend all of the appointments I should have - no one to look after dd). Let us know how you get on.

No news from me on the tear/muscle damage etc but on a sunnier note - DD is 6 months so it's baby-led weaning and attempts to crawl over here. Lots of mess and tears fun!!

Hope everyone else is ok.

[ThingOne]

Hi Dustin. I hope the physio goes well. You must have been so tempted to kick the consultant.

On the odd post from cf at the top of this page, I've searched on her nickname and it seems she's fairly new to mumsnet, so I suspect she didn't really realise what we were talking about on this thread. Doesn't look as if it was the wrong thread. I just presume it's a misunderstanding.

[Cyee]

Popping in to bestow peace, love and hugs to one and all!
My lovely FIL is seriously ill now, hence my disappearance.
I think people like us make up less than 1% of childbearing women, so I think that unfortunately many women as well as men don't really 'get' what happened and perhaps equate it to other more standard birth wear and tear. To be honest I know I personally don't help the situ by being compelled to be 'hey ho - onwards and upwards' when talking about/alluding to my own experience. So I'm not exactly helping to educate the world
Take care all!

[ThingOne]

Sorry to hear that Cyee. Have some unmumsnetty hugs.

[Cyee]

Thanks Thingone

[Jacksmama]

More hugs from me for you and FIL.

[Hulla]

Oh Cyee, thats awful. from me too

[kentmumtj]

Hi guys

I havent had a chance yet to read lastest posts but will do. Just thought i would update you as i went for my colposcopy today. well before inserting the thing they had to check they had the correct size. Ive never known which size ive had in the past and dont think many other women do either??? or do they???

Anyways she was very very careful and gentle as i had explained that since my op no intercouse has been possible. It was more uncomforatbel than usual but we got there very slowly. Once inserted it was ok ish i guess. The person doing it felt the problem was definatly with the opening as oppossed to internally which makes me feel so much better.

anyways i have to go back as they keep seeing this worrying area but were reluctant to do the biopsy as i am off on my hols next week. The area has grown and was very white when the iodine was used. Well i guess they know what they are talking about. She did another smear on me and i will await them results.

so im relived that they were able to insert something into my neter regions lol. They have also given me replens as they say ky is rubbish .

Hope every one else is ok.

[RuinedandUpset]

To Cyee, I'm so sorry that everyone is having such a difficult time on this thread. Normal life throws enough at you without having to deal with all this as well.

To Kentmum, I've been offered a tightening of the entrance to the vagina by a couple of doctors, it seems that it is the easiest part to repair and recover from. I get the impression that its no big deal unlike the rectocle repair I want. Hopefully the rest of it will work out too, the waiting must be hard to bare but just hang in there.

Did anyone watch Channel 4's embarrassing bodies programme about the follow up interview with a woman after a repair? Its annoying but they have blocked the link to Ireland. I'm sure they can't go in depth about the result but hopefully it all went really well for her and its a happy ever after story of a successful op.

[jmontan27]

nappyaddict, I am still around if you want to get in touch.

Just recovering from suspected swine flu, but can't be sure what it was. Kids have had one bug after another for the last few weeks so have not had much chance to catch up on the thread.

kentmum sorry to read about your ongoing problems, but glad at least the person doing the colposcopy was gentle. You really deserve a break as does everyone on this thread. I really wish there was a dedicated service for those of us damaged by childbirth, not just run of the mill gynaes, but people who really specialised and had sympathies with our particular circumstances.

I know it is burying my head in the sand but I have still done nothing about my fistula medically. I am so loathe to as all the other vaginal pain, urinary symptoms and anal fissure seem to have healed themselves and I can forget the fistula is there apart from when air comes out of it sometimes. Even when I had diarrhoea with this swine flu thing, nothing leaked out of the fistula this time. I know it's still there though but I so don't want to go through anyone cutting me in that area again.

Thinking of you and your DH at this time Cyee

[Chaosx3]

Hi,

Replying to Triggles from a few days ago - you may have had your baby by now. I had a uterine and bladder prolapse after the birth of my second child (it never felt "right" down there after his birth and the symptoms appeared a couple of years later). I then became pregnant and like yourself just couldn't get a definitive answer from anyone regarding natural birth vs. c-section. In the end I was induced at 42 weeks and delivered no problems. However a week later on the loo I felt a snap and my cervix was literally poking out. Very scary time, especially with such a little baby and two other children. Was referred for specialist physio straight away and two years later am managing OK via continued pelvic floor exercises.

But to answer your question - I think there can be no way that natural birth cannot make a prolapse worse and with hindsight I would have had a c-section. I am definitely in a worse position than before, although I know pregnancy in itself can make a prolapse worse. Will be really interested to hear how you've got on!

[kentmumtj]

cyee my thougths are with you and you family right now

i am so gutted and upset i discovered yesterday that my rectocele is back, its can be felt and seen as clear as the day. im gobsmacked and disappointed. I feel i went through all of this for what......?
For nothing

i cant belive its come back so suddenly........could it have been anythign to do with the colposcopy i had done??

[Cyee]

Hey everyone - thanks for all your good wishes. No change here - but enjoying spending loads of time with FIL. I think he's totally and utterly sick of us now!!

Also wanted to pop in and let you know something positive and interesting. My SIL who's also pg has been asked to be part of a study being run by the consultant who did my op. They're inviting all first time mums in the hosp to take part. It's basically around rectal damage post-birth (either immediate or many years later). It's not exactly a fun study as you can imagine, with the anal tests many of us have endured, but I was personally really gee'ed up that they're looking into the reasons why this happens, who it happens to and how it affects different people. So there you go - someone somewhere is trying to learn more.. hopefully with the aim of preventing/better treating this kind of damage.

Sorry I haven't had a chance to read through all the messages since I was last one. Suffice to say Kentmumtj I am gutted for you... so so gutted. Have you been to see anyone yet or got a steer on whether the clp. could have caused this? Really feel for you - sending lots of vibes your way.

Oh and on the subject of whether or not to c-section, I had that very conv this morning at the hosp. They were 'pleased to be able to offer me a c-section' despite the fact it was my consultant's express demand! How very kind of them! For the record, in my case, the doc said that even early stage labour could cause stretching to the perineum (and I assume other bits I'd had fixed) so they'd be doing everything to make sure I didn't go into any kind of spontaneous labour.

Take care everyone

[Cyee]

Bum(p) - anyone there????

[ThingOne]

No. I'm not here. I've been at my mum's for a bit and I'm now sorting out too much. So I'm seriously not mumsnetting.