Phimosis (overly tight foreskin) in 5.5 year old boy. Anyone got any advice - doctor pretty rubbish

[LadySnotAlot]

Hi,

I went to the doctors a while back with my son who had an infection in his penis. He is 5 1/2 and still can't pull his foreskin back over his penis. (Apparently this should be able to happen at about 2 or 3 years.)

The Doctors said to try and stretch the skin back over his penis (but there's so much skin we can't, and it's getting worse) and yet many websites say not to pull the skin back as it can cause tears.

Does anyone have any children that have suffered or had a circumcision etc?

Help v much appreciated.

[Lightf00t]

"Btw, the definition of a feminist is not 'man-hater' but one who wants equal treatment for all regardless of gender"

The dictionary definition and the reality of what most modern feminists are, are two very different things.

Moreover, that's good because here in Western countries women have more rights and privileges than men and more than equal opportunity, so there's no need for feminism anymore.

[Abcdefg1234567]

Lightfoot, yes, you don't blame us parents, but you say we should feel shit about this.
My son had his op several years ago - what good is it angrily ranting to me? What can I do about it now? What can drs do now?

Waffle, no you're right, I'm not a man, circumcised or otherwise, but I have spoken candidly over the last decade to 5 men who have undergone the procedure, and found it has freed them from pain.
I'm also surprised that anyone would consider pulling a foreskin back, as long as I've had children I've know not to do this.

Lightfoot, this is very informative, but your tone is offensive. You're expecting parents to be totally aware of these issues that weren't even heard about until relatively recently. Certainly the research I did 8 years ago led me to nothing like this.

Perhaps you would consider starting a nicely worded thread with this information so that parents from now on can make an informed decision, and feel able to disregard their drs recommendations.

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

"Boys and men have always been more disposable than women and girls. It's just the way it is."

. With that, I'm out. What a load of tosh!

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

Sorry OP, hope you got some useful advice before the menz took over.

[Lightf00t]

"With that, I'm out. What a load of tosh!"

This is what I'd expect when someone's deeply ingrained cultural conditioning is challenged.

Women and children first .... except when they're boys.

[Lightf00t]

"Sorry OP, hope you got some useful advice before the menz took over."

Typical feminist/female response. Sneering directed at men because a man happened to be the one to provide the facts and logic. No need to thank me because us men never expect thanks from women, especially the women on mumsnet.

[GenitalintegrityNOW]

Lightf00t is spot on. I'm glad someone is speaking up for the genital integrity of boys here. Those of a feminist persuasion, I put this to you:

Why are female genitals protected but not males? "They're not the same thing!" Oh yes they are. Circumcision removes the foreskin, frenulum, frenular delta and ridged band which is VITAL for sexual pleasure.

PLEASE mothers, do not cut your sons.

[Abcdefg1234567]

"I've tried educating doctors, including my own. They all pull ranks and prevaricate and obfuscate because they do not want to raise their heads above the parapet. Most doctors are in it for the salary, not the desire to help people. Only a tiny minority of doctors speak publicly about this, but even they are silenced."

Which is exactly the experience us mere parents have.

Talking from personal, first hand experience now, one of my dc is permanently damaged by a drug he was prescribed. He will always have difficulties, maybe not his sex life, but his day to day life, possibly his future independence.
Every dr I spoke to denied all the side effects that we saw and blamed it on parenting. I have since watched information being dripfed out over the last few years, knowing that GPs are still denying things to their patients (because despite their vast intellect, they are selling products and will believe what the pharmaceutical reps tell them).
So in the last few years, I have made a point of sharing information about this drug on FB, looking out for parents on forums asking about the drug and pointing them in the direction of information.

I genuinely wish you luck with this. I understand your frustration, and I think you have the potential to raise awareness, keep the passion, but tone it down a little. You catch more wasps with honey after all!

[Lightf00t]

Abcd,

Yeah, you've nailed it. I don't want to tar all doctors with the same brush, but from my experience they're about as much use as a box of frogs. There is so much wrong with the medical profession. They think they're right about everything because they have medical degrees, and I think they're getting more and more frustrated with patients nowadays because we're all more likely to question their judgement, probably due to the internet giving us so much information at the click of a button.

I know a guy who was prescribed some drug for OCD or depression (Can't remember which) and he swears it caused stunted growth. There is some evidence to suggest this but it's still being used. It's scary.

[Joseph4GI]

If research is to be believed, 5 is way too young for a child to be diagnosed with phimosis. Research from boys in Europe (Oster et al) and Japan (Kayaba, et al, Kimura et al) shows that boys can remain non-retractile (e.g. "have a tight foreskin") until late teens. The median age is 10 years old. My advice to you? It sounds like your doctor sees a price tag at the end of your child's penis. Find a different one. Most likely, your child is perfectly fine and developing normally. Do NOT let any "doctor" try and forcibly retract your child's foreskin. This could actually hurt him, ironically necessitating surgery. Good luck!

[SlinkyB]

Just to be clear, when you say forcibly retract Joseph do you mean pull skin back towards the childs body? My 3yo ds is having problems, and I've been pulling the skin back gently to check it's clean, and more often than not a droplet of urine comes out. If I don't do this, it seems to stay there and make ds sore Not sure what to do for the best, as this thread has made me realise I shouldn't be pulling anything.

[navyeye]

So, I found this thread whilst googling a problem my son has.

My son is 23 months old and he has been saying for the last 4 months that his willy is "owwie" and grabbing at his crotch whilst crying in a great deal of pain and waking from sleep screaming hysterically.

His penis balloons (incredibly) when he wees and he deliberately holds in his urine for as long as possible. He isn't potty trained but he we have done loads of urine samples that's why I know his Penis balloons. The tip of his penis is red and a bit sore looking, but he doesn't have a fever or discharge so I guess it isn't infected although I was given antibiotics?

His penis is shaped a bit like a trunk, very wide at the top and very narrow at the tip and his foreskin is very tight and the opening is almost invisible, but his urine comes out in one jet.

We're waiting for a paediatric referral for what the dr led me to believe would be circumcision so I came home and looked into it more.

It seems a steroid cream is the best way to go? How long would I ned to do this, most studies say a few weeks twice a day? Could the steroids effect his behaviour? Are some creams better than others? At 2 years old there is no change I'd agree to a circumcision, is there a procedure where they can just make a small snip to take the edge of the tightness?

Any advice would be fabulous. My partner is circumcised (from birth, he had banitis a lot) so he thinks we should circumcise as do his medically trained (but old) family. But surely all the good stuff is in the foreskin?

Any advice would be really appreciated as the internet is very foggy in this area!

[SlinkyB]

Hi navyeye

Just wrote out a huge response, then managed to lose it

My son sounds very similar to yours, and his problems started around the age of 2; he's now 3.8.

He's been prescribed fucidin or fucibet cream by triage nurses in the past, and these have helped with no side effects that I can think of.

I have recently taken him to see a GP, who was very quick to recommend circumcision (he is Muslim and told me he has performed thousands of these operations in his native Pakistan). However, after I have done some research online myself, I have made another appointment with a different GP for a second opinion.

After reading the comments on here from some men a few weeks ago, I have stopped retracting ds's foreskin to wash/dry/wipe after weeing, and stopped putting the cream 'inside' (this is what I thought I had to do as thought it was infected). Basically, I haven't touched it, and he's doing so much better.

Are you in the UK?

[rabbitstew]

Hmmm. All I can say is, my dh was hugely relieved to have most of his foreskin removed in his late 20s, because it had always been a bit tight and caused pain during sex when it was retracted. Funnily enough, he prefers sex that isn't painful. By the time you're in your late 20s, I think you've given it more than long enough to ascertain whether stretching and steroid creams work... which, clearly, they don't always. It might have been psychologically less stressful for him not to have the first years of his sex life blighted by the pain of not having had his foreskin dealt with surgically earlier in life...

There are options other than a full circumcision. My ds1 had repeated balanitis (and no, we never retracted his foreskin because we followed the advice not to touch it, never used soap on it or gave him bubble baths and he did not have a diet high in sugar...). Eventually, he had an operation to detach his foreskin from the glans, so that it could be fully retracted, in order that we could pull it back to keep it clean (dead skin cells, etc, accumulate in there, otherwise, as they do in adult men - otherwise known as smegma) and thus stop the repeat infections. This worked, so he now has a fully retractible foreskin and no infections. As a result of this experience, I chose to ignore the advice not to touch your child's foreskin with my subsequent son and from an early age taught him to pull his foreskin back as far as it would go naturally in order to ensure it didn't have an accumulation of dead skin cells trapped behind it (but not to use soap). I really don't think a child is going to pull his own foreskin back further than it naturally goes, so I really don't believe those who claim you'll just irritate it and cause tears in it by doing this.

It's not as if it's considered hygienic for grown men never to pull back their foreskin in order to clean off the smegma that is accumulating there, so why on earth is it normal for a small boy to leave the smegma to accumulate????? Why tell parents to leave the foreskin alone when this means they have no idea when it has started retracting by itself and might actually need help keeping clean, before the poor child starts getting infections???

[SlinkyB]

Gah, I don't know rabbitstew? ds1 who's 3.8 is my first child (ds2 8 months) and I'm more confused than ever after your last post

I thought you were meant to retract gently and keep clean too (that's what grown men do) but now I don't know if I've been doing more harm than good when I was trying to help relieve his "balanitis". Will see what GP says next week.

[rabbitstew]

Hi, SlinkyB. Well, I wouldn't retract and dry the glans after peeing - urine should be relatively sterile, so it probably would just irritate and wipe off all the natural oils protecting the glans to do that (and, tbh, I don't know any adult men who would willingly do that after peeing rather than just give it a good shake!!!). I don't think that's the same thing as gently pulling the foreskin back in the bath straight after getting in (before any soap, etc, has got in the water) once a week, though, so that your ds can gently clean off any smegma. Do it too often and it will irritate, but not doing it at all imo is totally OTT and only caused my son the problems the zealots claim to be trying to avoid.

[worriedmummy21]

Hi. I have a little boy who is 3.8yrs old. He has repeated balanitis infections which only go away with cream. I stopped using any soap in the bath and apply a barrier cream at night to try and stop them but it has made no difference. The opening of his foreskin is very small and therefore it doesn't retract at all, I have never forced it (obviously). I'm really reluctant to have him circumcised as he is so little but not sure what to do. The dr gave me cream so I don't have to take him back every time but I hate seeing him in pain with it.

[navyeye]

SlinkyB, yes I'm in the UK :) We got the steroid cream, but the Dr wasn't really very goof with where to put it?! I've been smoothing it on the tip. It looks the same to me but he isn't crying as much now. I've also noticed he has a tight bit of skin going from his balls up to his willy tip, that looks very tight too. Not sure if that's normal?

We've got to use the cream until it's "better" which again, I didn't find very helpful!

[SlinkyB]

I haven't found the hcp's particularly helpful either navyeye; just "here's some cream, bye bye*.

When I phoned the practice again a couple of weeks ago, I said "I can't keep applying cream for the next two years, I'd like a referral to a specialist please" and the earliest GP appt was for 3-4 weeks time. Luckily ds isn't suffering at the moment.

Don't know about the skin between balls and willy tip; I tend to ask dh to look and sort it out as he's got a willy, ha ha! He doesn't seem overly concerned, and said he couldn't retract his foreskin properly until he was a lot older

[navyeye]

My DP was circumcised so he doesn't know! Boooo! I think the cream is working, he's definitely crying less but he is still crying sometimes. I think we will go back Monday morning and see what the dr thinks now as it can't be good to keep using the steroid cream for weeks on end? The packet doesn't even advise you to use it under a nappy!

[hydro]

Hi ladysnotalot and several other contributors have been completely mislead by outside information and an uninformed medical community . The foreskin of a child is bonded to the inner penile surface during early childhood to prevent urine etc from entering that space and the seperation process is a natural process which takes place normally whithout outside interference during the childs later primary school years or in slower cases early teens , a natural breakdown of the bond occurs probably due to hormone changes , any attempt to enable foreskin retraction in an under 10 or young teenager where it is not happening by itself can lead to micro tears in the bonding and the introduction of an infection. At no time should the foreskin be pushed back forcibly or heavily manipulated during bathing . It should not ever be neccessary to do anything other than lightly dab the foreskin tip with a flannel during washing and better not to introduce any harsh soaps into the small opening of the foreskin where they can cause irritation.
The bond breaks down successfully in almost all children barring maybe a small percentage where stretching and/or steroid creme maybe adviseable , The bond is in youger children and babies very strong and secure and if a child is circumcised the tearing away of the bond is what causes the incredible suffering the child will experience likened to ripping your own fingernail off , so to sum up spare your child suffering and DO NOT mess with his natural development .

[MerdeAlor]

My son had repeated bouts of infections, could not retract his foreskin at all and his urine balloned inside his foreskin.

We tried the cream on and off for about 2 years.

Ultimately we went for the least invasive procedure when he was 10 - a partial release of the foreskin. This is where a small incision is made in the foreskin allowing normal movement without it being removed.

No more infections, no more ballooning although his aim in the toilet is still way off!

[TheConstantGardener]

My son is 9 and has a tight foreskin but I am not too worried, each person is different and from my research it suggests the foreskin seperate from the glans at different times for different people. As a child I also had a foreskin and it didn't separate until I was perhaps 13. I continued to have some issues as an young adult with occasional minor tearing of the foreskin in my early 20s and breaking of the frenulum aged approx 24. It was never a major issue but did concern me and eventually I went to see a urologist about it. Dr Gordon Muir is a 'foreskin friendly' urologist who only performs circumcision as a last resort and he recommended use of 1% hydrocortisone cream and daily 'stretching' exercises to the foreskin. Sounds grim but lo and behold he was sport on and I now have no issues whatever. My advice would be to be pateint as the conservative treatment can be successful. Hope that helps.

[JohnDalton]

NO foreskin retraction should not be able to happen at about 2 or 3 years.

The foreskin should not be retracted by the parents. A non-retractable foreskin needs no treatment before sexual debut and it is 98.9% certain it will have become retractable by then anyway. It certainly does not
need treatment by circumcision.

Leave it alone and let him retract it himself in his own good time.