Phimosis (overly tight foreskin) in 5.5 year old boy. Anyone got any advice - doctor pretty rubbish

[LadySnotAlot]

Hi,

I went to the doctors a while back with my son who had an infection in his penis. He is 5 1/2 and still can't pull his foreskin back over his penis. (Apparently this should be able to happen at about 2 or 3 years.)

The Doctors said to try and stretch the skin back over his penis (but there's so much skin we can't, and it's getting worse) and yet many websites say not to pull the skin back as it can cause tears.

Does anyone have any children that have suffered or had a circumcision etc?

Help v much appreciated.

[Lightf00t]

"Plus, there ain't anything dh can do about it now, so what to do? Fret about his lost foreskin and erogenous pleasure, or just - er, get on with it??"

I'm not telling your husband not to get on with it. What I'm doing is educating you about the REALITY of circumcision, a reality you don't want to acknowledge.

Your response is like saying, "So what should rape victims do? Get their rapists charged and help other rape victims, or just forget about it?"

You are so unbelievably uneducated.

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

Lightf00t I think you've made your point several times over. You are obviously very unhappy with the result of a medical procedure over which you had no control. Others have not had such bad experiences with it, including some very vocal adult male posters who frequent MN and sing the praises of circumcision for all and sundry.

Please allow other posters to share their experiences without becoming so aggressive in ramming home your point. We get it.

[Lightf00t]

The men praising circumcision are men who were circumcised at birth. Men have egos and fragile ones when it comes to their penises. There's a general psychopathology where mutilated men cut at birth refuse to accept that they were damaged. This is the same as what victims of female circumcision say. Now you would say FGM is barbaric and sexually damaging. Victims of FGM would disagree with you. By your logic, that means FGM is okay.

Do you understand now? Men circumcised as adults ALWAYS report terrible experiences. You clearly haven't researched this.

Circumcision is not a medical procedure. Take a look at this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision#Masturbation_concerns

IF you believe circumcision is a medical procedure, then tell me situations where circumcision is necessary.

If you can't do so in your next post, you are admitting it is not a medical procedure.

[SlinkyB]

Yeah, we heard you the first time Lightf00t. I'm sorry for your experiences, but they are just that; your experiences. Time to step off your soap box and stop ranting now.

[Lightf00t]

They are not MY experiences, they are the result of circumcision. That's what circumcision does. You people are not listening to me. I will spell it out again.

The foreskin is where 99% of sexual sensation comes from. Join the dots. Listen to the scientific facts.

[Lightf00t]

"Yeah, we heard you the first time Lightf00t. I'm sorry for your experiences, but they are just that; your experiences. "

Not ALL gunshot wounds to the head result in death, therefore we shouldn't condemn shooting people in the head.

Mumsnet logic.

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

Lightf00t, No, they are not. I have read several threads where men have had issues as an adult and had to be circumcised, then found that it didn't cause problems and try to persuade posters that all boys and men should be cut.

Personally I agree that in many cases it probably is unnecessary and that for cultural or religious reasons I think it is awful.

My dp suffers from phimosis and is terrified at the prospect of losing his foreskin, as I would be if any part of my genitalia were to be removed. It would inevitably affect the way my body responds to sexual stimulation, so I really empathise with you. However, your tone is aggressive and your posts repetitive and insulting.

If you want to educate people perhaps you should address them in a more respectful manner, calling people idiots and simpletons will not endear you to anyone and your message is lost amongst the vitriol.

[Abcdefg1234567]

FFS. You claim you're trying to educate, but calling your audience narcissist simpletons isn't helping you.

My ds was circumcised aged 6 on the recommendation of several drs. I am not a simpleton, my husband and I (yes, ds has two parents) were in no position to ignore what the drs said, given that they all had extensive medical training, and we had none (assuming dedicated watching of House doesn't count). But thanks for making me and probably plenty of others feel shit about it.

I actually know a few men who were circumcised as adults, because of the problems they had with their foreskins, every single one of them reports a better, pain-free sex life. Fair enough, this is only 5 men out of a great deal, but not quite your claim that ALL men report problems is it?

[Lightf00t]

"Lightf00t, No, they are not. I have read several threads where men have had issues as an adult and had to be circumcised, then found that it didn't cause problems and try to persuade posters that all boys and men should be cut."

www.circumstitions.com/fetish.html

IT's called circumfetishism. They are not to be listened to. You know cutting off the foreskin is highly sexually damaging, so why the hell would you listen to such fruitcakes?

"My dp suffers from phimosis and is terrified at the prospect of losing his foreskin"

Exactly. You've just proved my point. The foreskin is vital for sexual sensation. He's terrified because he knows his pleasure will disappear if it's loped off. Case closed.

[Lightf00t]

"FFS. You claim you're trying to educate, but calling your audience narcissist simpletons isn't helping you.

My ds was circumcised aged 6 on the recommendation of several drs. I am not a simpleton, my husband and I (yes, ds has two parents) were in no position to ignore what the drs said, given that they all had extensive medical training, and we had none (assuming dedicated watching of House doesn't count). But thanks for making me and probably plenty of others feel shit about it.

I actually know a few men who were circumcised as adults, because of the problems they had with their foreskins, every single one of them reports a better, pain-free sex life. Fair enough, this is only 5 men out of a great deal, but not quite your claim that ALL men report problems is it?"


They're called circumfetishists. You cannot cut off the foreskin and not experience a significant loss in sexual pleasure. For many of us we can experience none at all.

The doctors are bringing their own religious/cultural biases to their work and are being negligent. A man who was circumcised at birth has no point of comparison and sees it as normal. A man like this who becomes a doctor might very well see no problem with doing this to a boy because he doesn't know how vital the foreskin is.

You get Jewish doctors, muslim doctors and catholic doctors. You get circumfetishist doctors. You get doctors who make money from circumcision privately. Do I really need to keep spelling this out to you?

I'm sorry that you were duped into circumcision. The doctors were wrong and negligent. It was unnecessary to circumcise your son and this is a fact. Are you in America? If so, that explains it, because American doctors aren't even educated on the foreskin. American physiology textbooks don't even have mention of the foreskin in them. It's a sick society over there. If you're in the UK or Europe, you've just been unlucky.

My own parents don't want to accept that they failed in their duty of care, too. Although they were duped, they didn't even ask what the procedure entailed or whether there were alternatives. You and my parents display classic signs of white coat syndrome, which is giving doctors too much respect. Always do independent research because many doctors do not know their asses from their elbows. IF you feel like shit, so be it. To be honest, you should. Although I don't blame you, I blame the doctors.

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

But if the option is having somewhat reduced sexual sensation (which many posters report still enables a healthy and enjoyable sex life for their DH) or constant pain, infections, tearing etc, then the case is not closed.

Your case may be closed, but others have to make the decision which is best for their own DS or themselves based on their own experience, symptoms, tried treatments and outcomes. Some have already had to make this difficult decision and your bleak prognosis for their DSs' future is helping nobody.

I'm sure that no parent makes this decision lightly, they will do as much research as possible and listen to expert opinions. Thankfully with the internet these days there is plenty of scope for individual research. You have put your experience out there for the benefit of others and this is much appreciated. Your dogmatic approach will alienate more people than it will convince, so give it a rest.

[WaffleWiffle]

Lightfoot, good for you for speaking out.

If the genders were reversed and this was viewed as a feminism issue them it would equate to female genital mutilation. The mumsnet feminists would be up in arms.

For what it's worth I have two sons (5 & 9) and it has never occurred to me to pull their foreskin back, I would never do that. I cannot imagine who would and why?

I would never pull apart my daughter's labia and use soap in there - I'm a woman so I know that would cause an infection. Why on earth do some mother do that to that their my son's??

[Abcdefg1234567]

No Lightfoot, they are not fetishists. They are men whose sex lives were reduced to zilch by the problems they had, and the pain they experienced. They are able to talk honestly about their experiences, their sex lives before and after the op.

I get that you've had a bad experience, but do not reduce every single man to your personal experience.

[Lightf00t]

"But if the option is having somewhat reduced sexual sensation (which many posters report still enables a healthy and enjoyable sex life for their DH) or constant pain, infections, tearing etc, then the case is not closed."

www.prweb.com/releases/2007/03/prweb512999.htm

Really? Somewhat reduced? Some circumcised men can't orgasm. Some can't get an erection. 100 babies die every year from it in the USA alone. A significant number of circumcised men don't even have a frenulum and thus have a completely numb dildo for a penis. All circumcised men's penises are dried out, mutilated and dysfunctional.

It's NOT NECESSARY. How many times do I have to tell you. I will spell it out once more.

Foreskin does not cause infections. IF there is tearing then that's probably due to being too vigorous during sex/masturbation and one should modify one's behaviour. If there is a genuine case of a tight foreskin in a sexually active adult man, it can normally be cured via stretching, or even with application of steroid creams. In the worst case scenario (a minority of phimosis cases) preputioplasty should be performed, which doesn't cut off the foreskin but fixes the problem. I've just explained to you how it's not necessary EVER and you're still going to sit there and bang your head off the keyboard. You've had this done to your son so you will never admit it's unnecessary; you will try to rationalise it any way you can. And the cycle of abuse continues.

[Lightf00t]

Wafflewiffle,

Thank you for reminding me that there are decent women out there who do care about men and boys and aren't hypocrites riddled with double standards. There is no difference in principle or original intent between FGM and MGM. People are just uneducated on this because they've been culturally conditioned to see the foreskin as 'just a flap of skin'.

[Abcdefg1234567]

Waffle, have you even seen most of the circumcision threads here on mn?
All end badly, MNers on the whole are as passionately against circumcision as they are fgm. Reversing this into a feminist issue would not make any difference.
What does make a difference is that this has been posted in General Health, this is not about the daily circumcisions carried out in religion's name.

We never pulled our ds's foreskin back, but the constant difficulty in weeing, pain, repeated infections meant that we had to take the advice of the drs we saw.

[Lightf00t]

"No Lightfoot, they are not fetishists. "

How do you know?

"They are men whose sex lives were reduced to zilch by the problems they had, and the pain they experienced. They are able to talk honestly about their experiences, their sex lives before and after the op."

Ah, now we're getting to the truth. So you're saying that men who were suffering pain due to a condition of the foreskin suddenly felt better once the pain was gone? So how does this counteract anything I've said? If they'd have had a preputioplasty or just used steroid creams/stretching methods, then they would be pain free AND be able to experience wonderful sex with 100% of the sensation they were meant to experience.

I had an irretractable foreskin until I was 14 and I would rather live my entire life with that than have a mutilated, numb penis. I could get wonderful sensations and orgasms from circling the foreskin as a teenager, until some ignorant quack knife-raped me.

Now all I'm left with is the glans, which has no sexual sensitivity at all.

[Lightf00t]

"We never pulled our ds's foreskin back, but the constant difficulty in weeing, pain, repeated infections meant that we had to take the advice of the drs we saw."

You didn't have to, because circumcision wasn't necessary. You were duped, just as my parents were duped. These doctors were probably too lazy or too uneducated to perform a preputioplasty. Now your son will never be able to have sex as nature intended it.

If you want to teach your son that consent is important, don't give him a permanent reminder that his wasn't.

AT the end of the day, I don't blame you. It was the doctors' fault.

[PenelopeGarciasCrazyHair]

Well at the risk of reducing this to wank-fodder, plenty of men seem to get pleasure from the glans as well as the rest of it. Yes, it helps with manual stimulation if there is a foreskin, but for oral, it can become a bit more focused.

My DSs have not been circumcised, my dp has not been and has no plans to be, I have no agenda here, other than to point out that you are shooting yourself in the foot with your attitude and insulting/upsetting posters with your blunt and one-sided rhetoric.

Ironically I have been called a foreskin fetishist on other threads for objecting to circumcision. I have plenty of empathy for men and boys and object to their 'mutilation' in the same way as I would to women and girls.

However, to align it with rape (except apparently more serious ) and use your own experience as the one and only truth is at best naive. You are NOT ALL MEN.

(Btw, the definition of a feminist is not 'man-hater' but one who wants equal treatment for all regardless of gender).

[WaffleWiffle]

With all due respect abcdefg, you are not a man who has been circumcised so cannot speak for those who have.

The 'patronising offensive crap' you speak of is informative, to me at least.

I read the first 10 or so posts here and thought gosh, it hadn't occurred to me to pull ds's foreskin back to check it's not too tight. Maybe I should do that to make sure, I now know absolutely not to.

[Abcdefg1234567]

Lightfoot, people in the medical profession are only as good as the people who taught them, and how much research they continue to do. If they have been told, or have learnt that a particular route of action is the most appropriate, that's the route they are going to take, so go and educate them! Not us parents who can't possibly know enough about every single condition that our children may or may not be inflicted with, we cannot possibly have enough in depth medical knowledge to challenge all the decisions from the doctors that we have to put our trust in.

Many, many conditions are treated terribly, leave lasting damage, leave horrific consequences, not just circumcision for medical reasons (or otherwise)

[Lightf00t]

Abcd,

I've tried educating doctors, including my own. They all pull ranks and prevaricate and obfuscate because they do not want to raise their heads above the parapet. Most doctors are in it for the salary, not the desire to help people. Only a tiny minority of doctors speak publicly about this, but even they are silenced.

Society is anti-male and gynecocentric when it comes to these matters. The media, politicians and doctors would rather talk at length about FGM which is illegal in the West while continuing to ignore the genital genocide being carried out legally on boys.

Boys and men have always been more disposable than women and girls. It's just the way it is.