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General health

Vaccination info on Mumsnet

49 replies

Socci · 14/09/2004 17:59

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Socci · 14/09/2004 21:19

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Angeliz · 14/09/2004 21:14

Socci, i had done a bit of research before then but that was it for me too really!
I was sent that letter for the booster and it was only then i delved a bit deeper. DD didn't have it as i was so com=ncerned and my nephews were very poorly with it.
My health visitor didn't write down the batch numbers either and she didn't write ANYTHING on dd's first jabs!! (She gave them!)

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 21:10

OK - this is what I have on the rubella vaccine

prtective effect- 77% (hough et al 1979) Effectiveness may decrease- leaving older age groups at risk of infection.

Reported reactions include encaphalitis type sympoms, meningitis and Guillain Barre syndrome, peripheral nervous system disorders, acute arthritis, chronic persistant arthritis.....

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Socci · 14/09/2004 21:09

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 21:05

any vaccination has the potential to cause a bad reaction. And there are some quite nasty side effects that have been linked to the single rubella jab. In terms of safety (from the pov of the establishment) the most dangerous vaccination is the DTP. However rubella is interesting from a moral pov because little boys can't really gain any benefit themselves from having a vaccination. In their case it is being done purely for altruistic reasons- but it does have the potential- like any vaccination- to do them some harm. This is the only vaccination that falls into this category. If you give your son the more dangerous DTP then he at least does stand a chance of benefitting directly from it (and how likely that is depends on all sorts of things).

Something else that strikes me in these sorts of conversations is that most people are open to understanding why I haven't vaccinated ds2 (and won't do ds3). After all - even if they think I'm mistaken, they understand that I think that ds1 was vaccine damaged. But people are often more critical of those who choose not to vaccinate because for example they don't agree with messing around with a young child's immune system. I've never really had much hassle from people to be honest (mention the word autism and people back off), but one of my friend's always seems to be subject to criticism whenever it slips out that her children aren't vaccinated (with the exception of tetanus). I always think that's a bit unfair really- her reasons are bascially the same as mine (wanting to do the best for her children).

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Socci · 14/09/2004 20:54

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joanneg · 14/09/2004 20:53

I must admit that I thought as bundle did that Socci was a troll - only because the last troll was vocal about her/his friends being on mumsnet to stir up trouble and this was one of the topics spoken about.

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edam · 14/09/2004 20:51

Take your point Jimjams but surely it's MMR that people are concerned about, not rubella as a single jab?

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MeanBean · 14/09/2004 20:48

Bit of a side issue, but I don't understand why there is a hierarchy on Mumsnet where only people who regularly post are allowed to have strong views on controversial subjects without being accused of being a troll. It really annoys me, tbh. Everyone should be treated equally.

My tuppence worth is that as far as the community goes, if you don't believe that vaccination is effective, then you won't believe that you are doing the community any harm by not vaccinating. That's not quite the same as a "sod you" attitude. Surely nobody takes the decision not to vaccinate their children lightly. I haven't done so, and every time new info comes out or the subject comes up, I re-evaluate my decision, and if new trustworthy
evidence were presented about the effectiveness / safety etc., then I may well change my viewpoint.

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:35

oh it does still work- I am very confused about emoticons now.

off to cook dinner!

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:34

Glad its not just me who keeps doing that www!

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WideWebWitch · 14/09/2004 20:33

Oh bum, meant

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WideWebWitch · 14/09/2004 20:33

Ha ha jimjams at 'surprised to find a vaccination punch up going on wthout me being involved' wondered where you were :O

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:22

It was trolled sophable and got all tied up with the calpol thread. One person in particular had shared some very emotional stuff on there. The trolling made it difficult.

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Heathcliffscathy · 14/09/2004 20:20

why did mistressmary's thread go??????

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:20

Agree with you there Socci certainly. DS1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child because his mother had no idea he had rubella! Being unvaccinated I was on the look out for it, we kept in for the critical time and luckily no-one was infected.

I have some figures for the efficiacy of rubella vaccination- I was surprised that they weren't better (as I was under the impression that rubella vaccinaiton was fairly successful)

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:18

cannot get used to these new emoticons! There!

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Socci · 14/09/2004 20:17

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Jimjams · 14/09/2004 20:17

But edam- if someone said to you "if you vaccinate your child against rubella you will protect the woman next door, but damage your child in the process" you wouldn't do it. You only do it because you assume your child will not be damaged by the procedure.
Rather surprised to find a vaccination punch up going on wthout me being involved I don't think Socci is a troll, but thanks bundle [smile}

And I agree with everything soupy has said as well.

It might be quite difficult for mumsnet to write an alternative view on vaccination in some ways. It doesn't generally go down well with the authorities (especially these days). Maybe they could add a section suggesting alternative reading material such as Neudstaedter's book. That's pretty balanced.
It's a shame MistressMary's thread went- although can see it was probably the right decision.

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Angeliz · 14/09/2004 20:16

I'm with Soupy on this one.
I had dd vaccinated with 'most' of them but purely for her, not the community. I have thought about the other stuff since coming onto mumsnet but i can honestly say that my responsibility is to my child, she needs my protection. I hope i haven't got a sod you attitude but i do beleive that!
I would like to see both sides too Socci, (though have to admit, i'd never read that before!!!).
I was saying on a htread the other day, i'd love it if you were 'allowed' the truth about the disaeses AND the risks of vaccination so you could make an informed choice!!!

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Heathcliffscathy · 14/09/2004 20:11

bundle, strikes me that rather than really thinking this was a troll, you just seriously disagreed with her!!!!

regardless, i agree that the big issues on vacs needs updating badly. i posted about this when i first joined mn, it's then that you go into the sections other than 'talk'...

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edam · 14/09/2004 20:07

But Socci, vaccination is altruistic as well as self-centred. It's about protecting all children, as well as our own. Including those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, such as heart disease.

I am worried about MMR, as you'll see from other threads if you search, and am looking into single jabs. But I'm trying to come up with a solution that is right for ds without exposing other children to unecessary risk.
Take rubella for an example. I have a ds so could take the selfish (ie decision made purely in relation to my own circumstances, ignoring effects on others) decision not to bother about rubella. But if ds caught rubella and gave it to a pregnant woman, I couldn't live with the guilt. Rubella kills unborn babies. It causes serious heart defects, deafness, congenital rubella syndrome... I could go on. Yes, you could argue, wrongly in my view, that it's the responsibility of other pregnant women to check their immunity. BUT 1/3 of pregnancies are unplanned ? that's a lot of women who have no reason to check their immunity. And there are a lot of women out there who have moved to this country from other places that may not vaccinate against rubella. And some people who have had the jab and think they are protected may not be ? vaccination isn't 100 per cent reliable for 100 per cent of people 100 per cent of the time.

Be honest, did you check your rubella status before you started TTC? Bet very few people do. We have to deal with the world we live in, where our decisions affect other people. And I do think we have a responsibility to other people's children as well as our own. I hope very much that if ds was ever in trouble, and I wasn't around, someone else would help him rather than think 'Oh, I won't get involved, he's not my child'.

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WideWebWitch · 14/09/2004 20:04

Not getting involved in the debate about vaccination but agree with the first post - the section could do with a rewrite imo.

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Socci · 14/09/2004 19:24

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MistressMary · 14/09/2004 19:23

I also have not had my baby vaccinated yet.
I did go into my reasons on another thread that was sadly deleted thanks to trollish behaviour.
However I certainly do not have an attitude of irresponsibility, quite the opposite in fact.
One I have read books and have taken into account where I live, my lifestyle, my health and liklihood of travel etc. I know I am not satisfied with the situation and what vaccinations are dished out at the moment.
I do not go to mums and baby groups,I visit a homeopath periodically, and continue looking into the facts and immune building foods etc, to give my son. I have recently started posting on thios board as I used to frequent another site with a rather closed mind on this subject,but found here that the site is a bit more receptive to other views.

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