To vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

[hopey]

Is anyone out there as worried as me about the reports that fewer parents are having their children vaccinated against measles, mumps and rubella?
I can understand the feelings about the mmr triple jab, and single jabs are becoming harder to find, but it concerns me that more and more parents aren't having their kids vaccinated at all, taking the view that "they'll be surrounded by kids that are vaccinated, so they shouldn't catch anything anyway". If more and more people start to take that view, then we'll have an epidemic on our hands.
I'm not keen on the thought of my dd having the triple jab. I don't think I could forgive myself if anything did happen to her, even though they tell us its highly unlikely. It looks as though it will be single jabs for her (if I can get them). I couldn't not have her vaccinated at all especially after seeing a baby on t.v. with measles. She was really poorly in intensive care. It broke my heart to see.
Well, thats my little rant for the day.

[Lucy123]

Aloha - what HIV cover-up are you talking about? I remember when they had the big campaign in the 80s and I thought the situation must be absolutely terrible as they usually underplay these things (I thought). It wasn't (although it is now in Africa). I really see the government's point on this - if they changed health policy every time some maverick argued that x might cause y, the NHS would crumble: in this case the argument that they need all stocks of the rubella vaccine for pregnant women is probably true.

My sister had many weeks off school due to whooping cough during the last vaccine scare, although I'm pleased you are having the single vaccines I think the press scaremongering is outrageous and is much more likely to lead to unvaccinated children - as it has already.

[Bozza]

Aloha - on the one hand you are saying that you will not vaccinate your son until after 18 months but on the other hand you are saying that singly vaccinated children are vaccinated earlier (younger). But the MMR is typically given at 12-13 months.

[WideWebWitch]

Maryz, Ok, I'm going to wade in and say I disagree! Sorry, but if parents choose not to vaccinate that is, currently (in this country at least), their choice. Remember, what was once considered best for all children was a job as a chimney sweep...sorry in advance for facetiousness (sp?)

[Croppy]

Try telling that to someone whose child has severe immunity problems, who is unable to be vaccinated and for whom measles would almost certainly be fatal. Society would be in a worse state than it is currently if we took all decisions solely on the basis of what would benefit us/our children personally rather than the broader community. I was not under the impression that the children who died in Ireland were terminally ill.

[SueDonim]

A bit off topic here, but I've just finished reading a history of tuberculosis (My dad's mother and his two siblings died of TB, and also a social project I hope to get involved with soon has discovered that 21 out of 76 children in a local 'kampung' (village) here in Jakarta has TB, so I found it interesting.) and I was astounded at the number of government cover-ups there have been WRT to that disease, over hundreds of years.

The UK govt refused for many, many years to countenance the idea of pastuerising milk even though TB levels in the USA dropped dramatically through the process. Even after antibiotics were found to be successful in eliminating TB, it was more than 30 years before the UK govt allowed them to be used here. 30 YEARS!! How many poor souls died of TB in that time??

It's just so depressing that our leaders in the past could not be trusted and I don't see anything which makes me feel any different about today's govts. And that is the crux of the issue for me. "Just tell us the truth and let us make our own minds up."

Interestingly, the book mentions several times that Ireland had far worse TB figures than elsewhere - I wonder if there is a common factor linking that to the Irish measles deaths- diet or work patterns etc?

[Harrysmum]

My mum's dad died in the early 60s from TB although at the time they refused to admit that it had been the cause. He worked in a hospital and they didn't want it known that they still had cases so it was all covered up until much later; it came to light when mum was a student nurse and they couldn't understand why she was immune not having had her BCG; some digging was done and that was the reason.

[aloha]

No, I won't be giving him the vaccine until later, but as you see the vast majority of people who have single vaccines do give it earlier. I wouldn't dream of criticising anyone who does choose MMR, but it's not yet compulsory, thank God! The HIV cover up I am referring to was the decision not to screen/treat blood products for HIV, which led to the mass deaths of haemophiliacs, for which they were eventually compensated. In my opinion, if there is a measles epidemic the government is to blame for not providing single vaccines for those who want them. There is more than one way go give birth funded by the NHS, yet only one way to vaccinate. I think that's wrong. I am not completely convinced MMR is safe, and no power on earth would make me give it to my son.

[bells2]

Suedonim, you are probably aware that TB is once again becoming a very serious problem is some of the more deprived parts of London. One of our neighbours (a journalist with the Evening Standard as it happens) is just recovering from a nasty bout.

The house we live in in London is actually a former TB clinic and still has the three large sheds in which the afflected were confined to at the rear.

[pupuce]

Slightly off the topic... and in "response" to SueDonim's post on TB and pasturization.
I have a friend who is currently doing some research on dairy allergies and of the 100 patients tested NONE except 1 are allergic to unpasturized milk ! They were all allergic to pasturized milk though.
I think that is interesting!

[SueDonim]

Gosh, that's interesting, Pupuce! According to the book, studies of allergy arose from reseacrh into TB, in the first place. Full circle, maybe? Sounds as though there is room for some fascinating research there.

Yes, I did know about the rise in TB, Bells, and not just in London. It's particularly prevalent amongst UK/Asian families, due to poorer living conditions and reluctance to seek help. I understand that England dropped the BCG vaccine for 14yr olds a while back, which hasn't helped. 15 yr old DD1 had her jab last year - one of the first since the BCG prograame in Scotland was suspened due to lack of vaccine. DD2 is only 6 but she also had BCG before we came out here. (still got that yukky sore on her arm - eeeuuuch!)

There's been a massive rise in the developing world, too, and the scary thing is that much of it is MDR - Multi-Drug Resistant, which basically means we could be looking at the comeback of a horrible disease.

In case anyone now feels compelled to read the book, it's called The White Death by Thomas Dormandy!!

[WideWebWitch]

Bells2, my ds was given a TB vaccination quite young as we were in a part of west London where they were worried about a resurgence. Scary stuff.

[bundle]

same over here in Hackney, www, dd had hers at 6 weeks.

[bells2]

mmmm.. I had better look into this as my daughter (8 months) hasn't been given it and we definitely live in a high risk area.

[robinw]

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[leese]

I for one am unconvinced about the governments argument that all single rubella jabs will be needed for pregnant women, hence the reason for its withdrawal to private clinics offering single jabs.
Very few pregnant women are 'rubella susceptible, and very few need a rubella jab. You cannot give a rubella vaccine to a pregnant woman - it has to be give post natally. Most are immune due to vaccines given at school (as we were), or will be immune following the MMR (or single vaccines).

[allatsea]

Susanmt, what do you mean when you said that the research was awful? Methodology? Conclusions?
Sofieames, is it true that the MMR jab has been used in the US for 25 years with no complaint?

[mears]

Read this letter today in the correspondence page of the Daily Mail and think it sums up the MMR debate nicely.

" As a health professional of about 40 years experience, I continue to be amazed at the controversy regarding the MMR vaccination. The issue to me seems very clear - choice.
All parents wish to protect their children, and refusing the MMR multiple vaccine does not mean they are negigent - just concerned.
If there is an epidemic of these communicable diseases it will have been caused by the action of the Government in dictating, for unexplained reasons which smack of a secret agenda, that only MMR is available.
Parents MUST be given the choice of single vaccines or MMR, or our fragile democracy, already being eroded by bureaucratic diktat, will be further undermined".

I wholehartedly agree with those sentiments.

[sb34]

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[bundle]

mears, I never thought of you as a Daily Mail-er! as you work in health yourself, I'd have thought you'd be much more supportive of evidence-based medicine and how that can be successfully and sensitively presented to patients who then can make informed choices. having said that, I won't defend the govt's handling of MMR (especially Blair's reluctance to come clean over Leo) - but what on earth is medical science for, if not for helping to protect us all?

[bundle]

also:

Why are single vaccines not available?

At present there are four licences for measles vaccines in the UK and one licence for a mumps vaccine.

However, the companies holding these licences are not marketing or manufacturing single measles or mumps vaccines that meet the specification in these licences.

Therefore all the imported single measles and mumps vaccines are unlicensed in the UK.

The importation of unlicensed medicines (not only vaccines) when a safe and effective licensed alternative (MMR) is available is restricted under the Medicines Act by the Medicines Control Agency.

This restriction applies equally to NHS and private sectors.

[mears]

Bundle - I like a wee simple read in the morning due to sifting through 'research based evidence' on a daily basis whilst studying for my Masters. It may not be 'high powered' paper but the letter I referred to was from a member of the public which I thought was really valid.

Ther problem with the evidence presented so far is that it is not conclusive therefore the Government cannot possibly state that MMR is safe. As a professional I do not agree with taking the line that all is well, as we have been urged by Government management letters. That, to me, has not been proven and I am afraid I am not yet convinced. Thankfully, as a professional, my opinion is not sought by parents and for that I am grateful.

[aloha]

Bundle, why aren't they marketing those vaccines? I remember when the morning after pill wasn't being marketed because the government was opposed to its OTC sale. It took a government initiative to get things going here and I think the same should happen in this case. If it allowed single vaccines on the NHS then the companies would start manufacturing the vaccines again. It's that simple.

[bells2]

Out of interest, are there any countries in the world which routinely administer the vaccines in single doses?