THE LIGHTNING PROCESS. Calling all ME/CFS people to help!

[WoodYouBeHappy]

I know there are lots of us unfortunate ME/CFS people on here (past and present) and would like your advice/knowledge/information about Phil Parker's The Lightning Process.

Having been severely affected with ME (since a flu virus in 2013) I have researched the full range of 'cures' to get me out of my 'Housebound Hell' of pain, fatigue and vertigo etc. Every so often, a different friend recommends the LP and I find myself on his website again.

In the beginning -with lots of research- I faced my illness with positive, determined CBT/NLP type approaches and attempted to get on with my life. I continued to deteriorate.

After an (NHS prescribed) year of Graded Exercise, I am worse and now medically retired.

Can anyone tell me why people pay £650 for LP and risk causing a further relapse? I've read such mixed stories on their success and am curious. It seems to either be a miracle cure (how?) or causes permanent further damage.

How do I explain to my well-meaning friends that 'No, I don't want to sign up to something that will cure me' . It shows me as the typical obstructive ME patient who continues to subscribe to the 'false illness belief' (that is still being rolled out in the UK press ) even though what I really fear is ending up being poorer, bed-bound and tube fed/catheterised.

Any thoughts? Would you risk it? Or did you and with what results? Would be interested to know if anyone was 'cured' and then had a later serious relapse and regrets trying it.

[SophieShine]

@KeenOtter

@SophieShine I rarely post about LP due to the vitiriol that is seems to cause.

Our experience was very positive. I am nothing to do with LP so this is our families interpretation of how it worked for us.

We went in very open minded and pretty desperate. Bed bound and on a feeding tube and unable to do anything. Conversations very exhausting, eating or chewing was not possible. Very sensitive to sound and light so wore ear plugs and in a darken room the whole time. Traditional medicine could offer nothing to us. CBT, Grade exercise was suggested, anti depressants, supplements etc none made any difference at all. CBT and graded exercise were impossible due to extent of the symptoms. Although it was tried - we started with a conversation of 1 min etc but over a long period of time nothing improved. Even resting in bed 24/7 made the symptoms worse so we had to try something different.

No way is LP in "the mind" but an acceptance that you can get a physical response to situations does help. eg if I see a snake I will feel hot and clammy my heart rate will increase and I will get an uncomfortable feeling in my tummy. This is not in my mind but my fear of snakes causes a physical reaction even though my rational mind tells me I am safe and ok.

LP helps to turn off the physical responses to situations and enables the body to be in a state to heal.

For us it was not an instant cure at all but over time and using the process until it became normal, confidence grew, the fear of crashes and am "I doing too much faded" and now things are pretty much back to normal. For us it really helped.

That’s beautiful! One woman I spoke to said she was delighted the day she sent her disabled badge back after 26 years of disability.

Thank you for sharing 💗

[KeenOtter]

@SophieShine I rarely post about LP due to the vitiriol that is seems to cause.

Our experience was very positive. I am nothing to do with LP so this is our families interpretation of how it worked for us.

We went in very open minded and pretty desperate. Bed bound and on a feeding tube and unable to do anything. Conversations very exhausting, eating or chewing was not possible. Very sensitive to sound and light so wore ear plugs and in a darken room the whole time. Traditional medicine could offer nothing to us. CBT, Grade exercise was suggested, anti depressants, supplements etc none made any difference at all. CBT and graded exercise were impossible due to extent of the symptoms. Although it was tried - we started with a conversation of 1 min etc but over a long period of time nothing improved. Even resting in bed 24/7 made the symptoms worse so we had to try something different.

No way is LP in "the mind" but an acceptance that you can get a physical response to situations does help. eg if I see a snake I will feel hot and clammy my heart rate will increase and I will get an uncomfortable feeling in my tummy. This is not in my mind but my fear of snakes causes a physical reaction even though my rational mind tells me I am safe and ok.

LP helps to turn off the physical responses to situations and enables the body to be in a state to heal.

For us it was not an instant cure at all but over time and using the process until it became normal, confidence grew, the fear of crashes and am "I doing too much faded" and now things are pretty much back to normal. For us it really helped.

[SophieShine]

@GreenPeppers

If you look at the NICE guidelines for ME, they clearly state that the Lightening Process isnt suitable (no positive results).

I understand it’s unconventional and may not be in the NICE guidelines. However to say no positive results isn’t true.

This article shows research and review of its workability. A higher percentage of workability compared with NLP and CBT. Also how some practitioners wrongly put blame on people if it didn’t work.

https://repository.londonmet.ac.uk/6059/1/Systematic-review-of-the-evidence-base-for-the-Lightning-Process.pdf

I’ve ordered the Dű book and also looking into the Gupta method. I do believe that the direction of neuroplasticity is worthwhile as it puts people in control of their bodies.

One thing that resonates for my daughter is her body is switched on to a protective flight or fight mode 24/7 - the results being an exhausted body in pain 24/7. She’s done with it and has not found the mainstream medical model successful. Really at the end spending £700 or £800 is nothing if it means a chance to overcome this.

For me it’s research, reading the book, speaking to people who’ve tried it and looking up the Gupta method as comparison.

[GreenPeppers]

If you look at the NICE guidelines for ME, they clearly state that the Lightening Process isnt suitable (no positive results).

[SophieShine]

@user1486071876

I found LP extremely useful. I don't usually post about it as there is always such a negative response to it.

However it changed my life from being bedridden and on a feeding tube to being able to work and partake in life again.

It is not a "positive thinking" treatment and it does not blame you if it is not working. However it does encourage you to change things you are doing. Change can be hard to do. It can be difficult and for this reason you do need to have some commitment that it will work..

I also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. If you want a quick fix or a pill this is not the treatment for you.

Hi there,
Just been looking at LP for my adult daughter and looking at reviews. She's not got a diagnosis as such, however ME, fibromyalgia, POTs, low thyroid, IBS symptoms are in there. No sleep, lots of pain, coping with depression and lower bands of emotion.

We've been chatting to a woman who used LP some years back and now a coach. She was bedridden for over 10 years with ME and fibromyalgia. She explained that her body was on fight or flight mode 24/7 after a flu virus in her teens. LP got her so well she sent her disabled badge back.

I completely understand the different viewpoints on LP here. The process is in your hands then it's a doingness rather than a receiving of a treatment - that's a little scary.

You wrote this is 2017 and it's 2024 so I'm curious how things are.

[Bbfree]

I dont know if its too late to reply but i want to help spread the word. You can recover. I did the lp, when i first got ill, i felt it work but i felt uneasy, and i paid 1200, i was suicidle so i had to try, two people there had done it before so that sent me red flags, i used it for a while but i didnt get recovery, i researched more and tried many things whixh i will write about one day. the two things that have helped me are called pure bio energy and rapid transformational therapy, you dont need to do both this wasmy choice.im not going to go i to detail about them as you all have google and can make your own. Mi nd up if you want to try it. I did dismiss them both at first then after my m.e turned into fibro, and crps, i was dying of agony, it was find an ansaWer or kill myself, i had already tried three times, but im glad im alive ow. My beliefs on these conditions are they are all the same, they are created in the brain, we go through stress or trauma and our brains create illness, our brain, body feels unsafe. You dont have to believe this you just have to try the treatment. Docotrs do not and wil never have the answer as they cannot look outside the box. Im sorry if thats harsh. My symptoms were as folows incase i get accused of not having it. I was tested for everything and no i dont have lyme. So i ached all over, felt likeflu everyday, felt heavy, sore throat, insomnia, didnt sleep for three. onths straight, felt insaine, shakes, skin crawling, burning, sharp pains that. MOve around, headaches,migraines,couldnt walk more than a few meteres,itschy skin, ibs,electric stings and shocks, tingling, dizzyness, and more but i prefer not to think. Im not 100% yet, but i no longer have flueyness, my painis from 20 to a 1 i can run, swim, do alot, im still tired and lost all my confidence, im getting mentally stronger slowly, im training in bio energy in october and will treat people for free to prove it works. All the best i hope this helps x, ps sorry kindle makes typing hard xx

[WoodYouBeHappy]

I do actually think that now I'm feeling physically much better, my main issues are controlling adrenaline and subsequent anxiety. It's possible that learning tools to control this (like from the LP) would actually make a difference to me.

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Thank you PolynesianGirl it does help. I always like to hear from ME people who are feeling much better and very curious about their journey there.

I have spoken with lots of people about supplementation and have been taking a cocktail myself for the last few years. I know good diet is essential and actually crave greens and fresh food. I feel sick at the thought of fast food.

Yes please to sending me the details of your person.

Interesting you say about acupuncture. I tried long courses with two different practitioners and it made no difference at all. I suspect I was so sick back then, the stress of travel there and back was too much. Maybe I'll look at it again.

Thank you

[PolynesianGirl]

I gave ME too and even though I'm not 'cured' yet, I am feeling much much better than 6 months ago.
What made the difference for me is diet/supplements.
I would really advise you to look fur someone who is iracticing functional medicine AND has experience in ME.
If you want I can send you the details of the person I've used. It's not cheap (both the consultation and the supplements) but the difference has been very noticeable.
A good friend of mine eu who also has ME and has much problems than me with anxiety is swearing about acupuncture to calm anxiety and stress down.
HTH

[ohnonotme]

Thank you, hope you are feeling better soon. I'm really interested in the diet and supplement side too. The problem with what we've experienced is that it focusses on drugs and/or therapy and there isn't any advice on nutrition etc and the role that plays.

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Reading and digesting carefully here. Supportive, telepathic messages for you all right now, until I can get back.

Very adrenalised and have to come off the internet for a couple of days to rest and sort out some RL stuff which has been backing up.

So sorry to hear about your son ohnonotme. If money isn't an issue I would probably chance it anyway. (Even though I've not done it myself, I have lots of friends off friends who have had fantastic results for various things). Just found this NHS trial but results aren't being released. No idea why.....


www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chronic-fatigue-syndrome/Pages/clinical-trial.aspx?CT=0&Rec=0&Countries=United+Kingdom

Keep researching. I am! You could get this book second hand in the meantime:

<a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-Lightning-Process-First-Getting/dp/178180057X?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">//www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-Lightning-Process-First-Getting/dp/178180057X?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

OR download the audio from here for £15? Step One. Home Study

lightningprocess.com/

I am sounding like a rep! I am NOT Just very sick.

Off to rest. Good Luck!

[ohnonotme]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I've come across this thread after having the Lightening Process suggested to me as a potential help for my teenage son. He is suffering from anxiety and depression and has been diagnosed for over a year, although I think the underlying stress has been around for about ten years.

I've asked his psychologist at CAMHS about it, but its not provided by the NHS. The suggestion came from the pastoral teacher at school who had seen it work for another teenager. I've done a bit of research, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of non-biased first hand reviews anywhere. Has anyone heard of any usage with teens with depression or anxiety?

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Thought I'd replied Queen. My brain can't handle more than one thread clearly, sorry . My, that's impressive that you've come so far. Amazing actually. I am literally lying around watching the grass grow here and the thought of being able to get up and actually mow it myself is very exciting

Still haven't heard from CBT or Community Fatigue Team. Having better days/hours than in the winter, but crashed again this week.

Every time I'm in a crash, the LP seems like a tempting opportunity......

[QueenofWhatever]

I would definitely give the CBT a try. That was more helpful for me than the GET. It's different to CBT for mental health issues and really helped me get my head around what my beliefs were around being a 'sick person'. My psychologist also encouraged me and supported my application to get a Blue Bage. That was a massive step for me psychologically, but actually was life changing.

To put it in context, I was diagnosed and had the treatment about 3-4 years ago. I still have CFS/fibro etc. and am still being seen by other specialists to investigate other issues. But I work four days a week in a middle management job, went to the gym today and mowed half the lawn. I genuinely believe pacing can make a big difference, recognising that it isn't a cure.

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Hi Queen Sorry to hear you are in this boat too. Fibro and auto-immune too, how rubbish.

That's really interesting to hear that GET & CBT really helped you. I am beginning to realise that my GET started way too high and I was never going to recover like this. I was trying to persuade my physio that I needed to sit on the benches while I was out, when actually I really shouldn't have been out at all by then! I think teaching and 'AIM HIGHER' have gone to my head and I push myself too much .

Maybe I will try the CBT offered after all. As they were involved in the PACE trial I wasn't really so enthusiastic about it.

Still thinking about LP. Or at least it's key points. Have read a quarter of the book and it's surprisingly good. With this and a dose of sunshine, I'm feeling quite bouncy tries to ignore possibility of an adrenaline crash



And Queen, that website is pretty, err...inspiring

[QueenofWhatever]

I'm diagnosed with CFS as well as fibro and an autoimmune condition. I ageee with PPs that the important thing here is that it's a syndrome, not a single condition. A syndrome is a collection of symptoms, not a single, definable disease with an identifiable cause and process.

I think in future years they will break it down into lots of different conditions, some immune related, some metabolic, some post viral etc. I benefited hugely from 12-18 months of GET and CBT which I had 1:1 from a clinical psychologist on th NHS. My feeling is that GET is often done not very well and often starts far too high. When I started picking up a bit, it was a real struggle to stop at 6 minutes walking when I wanted to keep going. Learning to pace myself has been hugely valuable.

I also found some of the Facebook groups very useful. Not the mainstream charity ones which I found a bit 'oh my life is awful, what benefits can I get', but the closed group ones that were positive and funny, but understood the reality.

OP! I wouldn't do LP. I think it's too hit and miss. You might be better off spending your money on the online programme at //www.cfshealth.com. - comedy Australians via Skype. What's not to like?

[WoodYouBeHappy]

I am so curious as to why this works for some and not for others. You can't just do the course, you have to do Part 1 Home Study first though

www.philparker.org/product/part-1-of-the-lightning-process-for-cfsme-post-viral-fatigue-fatigue-home-study-section-download-now/

My book has arrived. Wonder if that counts as Part 1?

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Sorry User I am using guesswork here. Thanks for clearing that up. Developing tools to recover rather than being cured in a weekend sounds much better!

And yes it does help me to know that people do go on to live an unrestricted life. I do appreciate you posting

[user1486071876]

WoodyouBeHappy just to confirm that LP is not in any form positive thinking.

I am not connected with LP at all and this is just my angle - but LP helps to change your physical reaction to situations.

LP put me back in control and I did not get better in a weekend but it gave me the tools to get back to health.


This was also my root cause For me, this has been a mixture of being under huge stress for years and then overdoing it massively and LP immediately helped me with this.

I am not pushing LP but just would like it understood that it is not positive thinking. It may not be for you. However maybe knowing that people have and do get better from ME/CFS and do go on to living a unrestricted life will help you.

[WoodYouBeHappy]

Thanks BluePeppers, that does make sense about different root causes.

It's frustrating that a clear brain is needed to focus on a recovery plan...when brain fog can often be your main symptom and prevent you from accessing the right sources and make decisive, informative plans yourself....

Re: Root causes:

For me, this has been a mixture of being under huge stress for years and then overdoing it massively

Yep, me too

[BluePeppersAndBroccoli]

Because I think that the root causes of the illness is different from one person to the next.
For me, this has been a mixture of being under huge stress for years and then overdoing it massively.
So stress is and has always been a huge trigger for me and something I have worked on for the last 10 years, much before I was officially diagnosed with ME.
What I have learnt since is that stress affects the body massively and depletes the body from certains elements which means you need to rebalance that too iyswim. Hence th d'importance of also working on my diet to recover.
Depending on the balance between stress/emotional stuff and diet/vitamins imbalance, I would imagine that one will be working great for one person and not the other. Or one needs to be tackle before the other.

I really don't believe the solution is just one system. (LP, diet, acupuncture, GE etc...). It's much more likely that you need a bit of all, more of some stuff depending on you and where you are in the recovery process.

[WoodYouBeHappy]

That's very interesting to know, thank you both of you for posting. User that is a drastic change!! What a relief for you to come out of that life.

I've had some more positive PM's about LP too and I really don't know what to think. I'm very open minded and positive....but....I don't want to be held responsible for the results....

BluePeppers I totally get what you mean about having to avoid stress. My adrenaline spikes are easily triggered.

That book looks very good too, thank you. I have been taking the 'right' supplements for a couple of years and tried changing my diet. Perhaps I need to try it again. With less stress and more commitment.

My mind is still boggling at people with severe ME being cured by:

A. A 'positive thinking' (broadly) course
or
B. A diet revamp with a long list of supplements

How do people end up with the same outcome from two totally different approaches? And some are cured and some deteriorate....

There is so much information out there and I don't really know what to do or what to think. Something which isn't ridiculously expensive or massively energy-draining to research/undertake would be ideal.

[BluePeppersAndBroccoli]

user I know a couple of people who have found the LP very helpful too.

[user1486071876]

I found LP extremely useful. I don't usually post about it as there is always such a negative response to it.

However it changed my life from being bedridden and on a feeding tube to being able to work and partake in life again.

It is not a "positive thinking" treatment and it does not blame you if it is not working. However it does encourage you to change things you are doing. Change can be hard to do. It can be difficult and for this reason you do need to have some commitment that it will work..

I also acknowledge that it is not for everyone. If you want a quick fix or a pill this is not the treatment for you.

[BluePeppersAndBroccoli]

I'm not used to D Myhill diet recommendations but I have found that changing my diet and getting the right supplements to have done a HUGE difference to me.
I contacted a nutritionist and her advice re diet is similar to the one from <a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0062476343/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">that book from Aviva Romm
Basically lots and lots of vegetables, no gluten, no dairy.
Supplements that did help a lot were VitB12, vitD and probiotics (I have been taking others but those made a very clear and immediate difference iyswim)
I'm also finding that I just do not do stress at all. I can extremely easily get overwhelmed and stressful situations do not do me any good. Up to the poin that I will avoid any film with some suspense in them. From that POV, I can see how the LP can be helpful.