Dentist won't do crowns on the NHS because he says they are no good.

[spenditwisely]

He said that he is a specialist in bridges and crowns and doesn't use NHS standard crowns because they wouldn't last and he has a reputation to uphold. Is this a genuine claim on his part?

He' quoted £2400 for four crowns, two root canals and one tooth removal. He will only do the cleaning, xrays and advice for free.

Or would I be better to get implants and a holiday in Eastern Europe?

[goose1964]

I have a porcelain crown which is over 30,nearer to 40 years old. Even then he had to get permission from the NHS to do it.

[16684TJP]

Does appear to be a conflict of interest between dentists that offer private & NHS care. I've had 2 crowns fitted by two different NHS (/private) dentists. One was white and I've had no problems. The other was silver (though they offered to do a white one privately) but I've had few problems. But both were NHS costs.
www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/dental-health/how-do-i-complain-about-my-dental-treatment/ - you might find this useful if you think your dentist is pushing private care onto you.

[Muriel33]

I think in this instance the dentist is right. Porcelain crowns are better and these are not available on the NHS only composite (white) which don't last long or amalgam (the metal ones).

[Mrsmorton]

Ah yes I see it now.

Crowns falling out is to do with the technical competency of the dentist preparing the tooth usually. Unless you get decay under them, they don't usually fall out due to the shape that we make the underlying tooth.

Whether they are provided on the NHS is slightly ambiguous but if the reason you want a white one is purely vanity then surely you should pay extra? If it's a genuine health concern then maybe the NHS should provide it. As a general rule, white crowns are worse for the health of your teeth so I rarely do them on back teeth because they are far more destructive.

[Memphisbelly]

My dh had a private crown and it fell out over and over again, I asked him to change to my dentist and my nhs ones have been fine, they did him an nhs crown and it looks 10 times better and has given him no problems at all.

[EldonAve]

Charliebo's question is new and has restarted the thread

[Mrsmorton]

This thread is quite old? I'm on the new mobile site so not sure but I reckon OP may have sorted this by now.

[iwantgin]

I have both my front teeth crowned - due to being accident prone as a child.

All my dental work has been carried out by NHS dentists. I have probably changed one of them about 4 times in 30 years - once due to have root canal and changing to a post crown. After a few years my gums tend to recede a little too, so I have the crowns replaced. At regular NHS prices.

I have never had one fall out or chip or break - touch wood - so I can't believe that the private ones are any better quality strength wise. They may take a little more time making sure that they are the right shade/shape/fit perhaps - but other than that no.

I used to work as a dental nurse many, many years ago - so have a little insight into how things work (Or used to )

[Willdoitinaminute]

Smileandnod Zirconia are brilliant crowns and are top end private usually but can be provided under NHS as a single crown since the NHS fee will more than adequately cover the cost. You obviously have a very ethical dentist. I usually use Zirconia or Emax on front teeth since they are so much better than metal crowns cosmetically and like your dentist I take pride in my work and reputation.

[Willdoitinaminute]

The only difference between NHS and private crowns is the material they are made of. The problem lies with provision of multiple crowns. An NHS dentist receives the same fee for one crown as he/she does for 6 crowns. Providing more than one crown would ultimately lead to bankruptcy.
This system is the result of over prescription ( big time) in the 70s, 80s, and 90s which led the government to cap dentists fees for a course of treatment.
If an NHS crown falls off it would not be due to it being an NHS crown but the result of poor dentistry.

[SmileAndNod]

I had a crown just last week, and it was on the NHS and white - porcelain bonded to zirconia I think he said. So they are definitely available, not only from private dentists. I'm hoping that it will last a while, though I'm still a bit wary of biting and chewing on it!

[sanfairyanne]

(All NHS ones)

[bonzo77]

Dentist. Marking my place to rtft and reply later. Brb.

[sanfairyanne]

dh's crown score
3 stayed in so far (4 years on)
2 fallen out

[SwedishEdith]

I would think about reporting this dentist if I was the OP. Or making some sort of enquiry with his professional body

[SwedishEdith]

I had a white crown fitted a few months ago by an NHS dentist. There was no suggestion at all that this should be done privately. I paid the standard fee of £219 and he told me it should last a lifetime. My other white NHS crown is about 18 years old and it's still fine

[EnlightenedOwl]

I wonder how long crowns last. I had one done when I was 18 and I'm 40 now its still going strong and dentist happy on last check up

[sanfairyanne]

generally dentists anywhere abroad that i have lived have been far better than uk but i would be careful who you chose to do the work. they would take far longer over the work though so i dont know how that fits with holidays - maybe they speed it up? so lower standards?
every foreign dentist i have ever seen has scoffed at my/dhs nhs work

[EldonAve]

www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/dentists/Pages/nhs-dental-charges.aspx

[Charliebo]

I have today been told that I have to have a metal coloured crown fitted on my tooth and not a white one. A metal coloured one is £219 on nhs and if I want a white one it has to be fitted privately for £350. My sister has recently had a white crown fitted for £219. Could someone please tell me what are the rules and regulations.

[Grumpystiltskin]

It probably means that she has used her NHS funding for this financial year so any work she did, she wouldn't get paid for. Someone else may not I've reached their quota.

[spenditwisely]

Thanks Bonzo and Grumpy, I went to my old dentist today and realised how nice she is and asked her lots of questions to which she gave loads of answers. The practice is a busy, mostly NHS one, but it's very clean, has had the same staff for years, always 2 receptionists on and very efficient. They send you text reminders and the assistants are excellent. Mr Moneybags on the other hand has a dingy practice with tatty furniture and he accidentally scratched my head with his spike. He had to talk the assistant through the computer system. My old dentist is young and dynamic but explained everything to me as an equal whereas Mr Moneybags left far too many questions unanswered. He probably is good at what he does, but I am reluctant to chuck £2400 to someone unless they can really show that they can do a much better job than the NHS dentist.

I've also booked a second opinion with a recommended dentist, he will charge £40 for that...

I won't be doing the dentistry holiday, now that I know what's involved - my teeth are totally wrecked. I've been extremely ignorant in my treatment of them over the years and I have to pay for it now. I never learnt how to brush my teeth properly until I was about 30. For instance. Sad, because I never had sweets until I was about 10 and then it was rare.

I stopped going after a bad experience with my old dentist but I discussed it with her and she was really supportive and apologetic etc. She said she would 'stabilise' the teeth and then her colleague would be able to do the crowns because she hasn't got enough points left. Points???

[Grumpystiltskin]

Ps superfly. Private lab work is not the same as NHS. Privately you will get far better aesthetics, a higher precious metal content where appropriate and usually a more experienced technician.

[bonzo77]

OP, another dentist here to answer some questions...

1. If he is a "specialist" he should be registered as such. Check the GDC website, go the section called "search the register". If he is not registered as specialist, he is marketing himself falsely. The GDC takes a dim view of this.
   

1. The standard of the work has to be the same whether NHS or private. An NHS crown is made of silver-coloured metal. A private one could be metal, gold, porcelain bonded to metal, all ceramic, computer designed / manufactured. Both still has to be fit for purpose. The dentist stlll has to assess the tooth correctly, provide a root canal if required and prepare the tooth to the same standards. An NHS crown will undoubtably not meet your aesthetic requirements. It should however totally meet your functional ones.
   

1. No No NO to a dentistry holiday... because who know what the foreign dentist's qualifications and experience are, who knows what materials and labs she uses, who knows if her English is sufficient to explain risks etc to you, who knows what (if any) after care you will get, and who knows what course of redress you will have should it go wrong. As grumpy says, look at the PIP thing.
   

I suggest that the next thing to do is to get a second opinion. This sounds like quite a big treatment plan, and there will be alternatives, both in terms of the exact treatment plan and the NHS / private question. There may well be sound reasons why this dentist is recommending some private options, but he cannot just opt out of offering certain treatment items on the NHS.

Feel free to PM me too.