How to slow down some very fast growing grass.

[Ipsos]

Hi,

I wondered if I might ask a bit of a tricky question about lawn care? I'm an academic botanist, but an amateur horticulturalist so you can confidently hit me with all the complicated terminology, but any practical ideas will be very much appreciated.

A few years ago I was on a mission to try to get my lawn to be really good. However, I have accidentally overshot a bit and unleashed a monster lawn. I wondered if anybody could possibly give me any advice on how to reign it in a bit?

Here's what happened:

I live in East Anglia and my garden is baking hot and bone dry.

A few years ago in our new (old) house we had a very sad looking, dry, compacted yellow lawn. I tried to perk it up a tiny bit by spreading new seed on top, without altering the ground at all. I also bought a mulching robot mower and mowed twice a week.

Unfortunately the new lawn became incredibly over-vigorous, growing an inch every two days, and causing very problematic hayfever for the family. The hayfever was caused by the smell of the grass, which was very very strong and sweet. The lawn was never allowed to flower or seed so pollen was not a problem.

To solve the hayfever problem, we dug the lawn up and tried to get rid of the new varieties that we had sowed, but that has proved very difficult as they keep resprouting. The seed seller assures me that the grass was normal lawn grass and no fast growing varieties.

After about three years of constantly removing all grass and leaving the ground bare or growing only vegetables, I'm wondering if I could now try letting the lawn grow again to see if I might have eradicated the new varieties. I thought I might also try some strategies to weaken the grown of the grass and slow it down if the new varieties are still present.

I'm really wondering if anyone might be able to suggest strategies to severely weaken the grass? I thought perhaps it might help if I repeatedly leave the grass to grow long and then cut it hard back to ground level as was done with the previous grass. I could also remove and compost the top growth to avoid adding nutrients back to the soil. I thought that might take the wind out of its sails a bit. I wondered if the folks here would have any other ideas about to create really difficult conditions for a lawn, so as to hinder its growth?

The garden is hot and dry, and the soil was previously baked hard, but is now quite soft from being dug over.

This is the grass mix that I sowed. The rapid growth started immediately on sowing so was not caused by nitrogen fixation by the clover plants.


50% - 2.500 - ESQUIRE amenity ryegrass
15% - 0.750 - BROOKLAWN smooth meadowgrass
15% - 0.750 - LIBANO slender fescue
10% - 0.500 - GREENFIELD chewing fescue
05% - 0.250 - HIGHLAND bentgrass
05% - 0.250 - CRUSADER small white clover

I have no idea what the original lawn was.

Thanks so much for reading. It would really be great if I could restore my garden to some kind of functional lawn again.

[Ipsos]

I think a barbeque would be very popular in our garden, just like your earth oven.

If I'm doing a potager like that then the only tricky part is figuring out an attractive shape that takes the harshness out of the rectangular shape. It's a shame that designer was not free. He seemed good.

[Ipsos]

One of the nice perks about my weird gardening conditions is that Dahlias grow like weeds. I could quite enjoy growing some of those in these beds if I could get them sorted out. I could also put in some evergreens so the whole garden is not bare in winter. That could be good.

[Ipsos]

This is our current layout.

[Ipsos]

The sun rises at the top, goes round the right hand side and sets at the bottom behind the house. The left side of the garden is hot and dry and the right hand side in the shade of the fence is the place where it is cool and damp enough for me to grow a fern under the shade of a piece of wood.

[ThisHorseCalledDonny]

I think the thing is, DONT get bloody ryegrass.

Been the dwarf perennial ryes grow like bastsrds, they chuck them in to get it to green up quickly, but on a good fertile soil they will just take over.

You could get away with much weaker slow growing grassesa distill have a good strong sward, look for a mix with no rye and a high proportion of bents and fescues.

[ThisHorseCalledDonny]

Oh. My typing.

[Ipsos]

I know what you mean, but the problem is that if I plant some new grass that is less invasive then the existing grass will just out compete it and I'll be back where I started.

[shovetheholly]

If you look at the Chicago garden you just posted, there is a central circle, with radiating paths coming off it in all directions at 45 degree angles. The spaces in between are planted as veg beds.

I wonder if you could steal this idea and scale it down. You could put the central circle in the middle (or even offset to the right) of your current lawn area and using it for the climbing frame (for now) and then have radial paths dividing up the rest of the space into veg beds.

There are people on this forum who are proper designers who will have better ideas than me, though!!

[DoreenLethal]

What I would do is...attached

[DoreenLethal]

With kids and a climbing frame in that small area, you need to think long term and plan for what garden you want.

Putting woodchip down as a path and under the climbing frame means less hazards, and as it rots down it becomes a valuable mulch for your borders and future veg beds. Depending on where your climbing frame goes, you could start some funky curvy veg beds now and means it is super cheap so you get to spend your money on good things like your woodchip [get some from a tree surgeon not B&Q], and plants. You could put some espaliers against the west fence, and a cherry or plum in the right hand bark chipped area [away from the climbing frame].

[DoreenLethal]

And i'd probably move the greenhouse and shed down to the right hand bottom end so that they don't look so clunky.

[Ipsos]

shovetheholly that's a very interesting design. :-) I like that.

Doreen we did actually go so far as to order woodchip but it turned out to really stink of pine trees which was even worse than the grass and we had to return it. I noticed last time I was in a new office estate that they also had not-that-recently-laid woodchip and it was also very smelly.

That's why I was veering towards paths and beds.

I've also wondered about having an island bed that is a sort of tiny wildflower meadow with really mostly just wildflowers, and clearer every winter. That would make the whole design look less busy.

Thanks for all these ideas. I really appreciate it so much!

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

I was going to say to get a sheep or a team of rabbits but I don't think that's what you are looking for in terms of control

[DoreenLethal]

Wildflowers really love nutrient free soil - which is why grassess will kill them off if you add too many nutrients - if what you say about your soil is true, then you would just end up with more grass and no wildflowers unless you added loads of sand.

I've never noticed woodchip smelling anything other than woodchip! Perhaps what you need is matured woodchip, stuff that has been left 18 months or more; this just smells of brilliant. Again, a tree surgeon may have an old stash left around that they might let you have for nothing - if fresh is too smelly for you.

[Ipsos]

This staggered line of radial stones is nice too: www.houzz.co.uk/photos/570127/potager-garden-traditional-garden-chicago

[shovetheholly]

I love the smell of pine, so that wouldn't bother me! But I can see how it might put you off if you loathed it. The council dump huge amounts of chipped wood at my allotment for us to take and use, and I the smell of freshly cut stuff does vanish quite quickly. That might not help with the first few weeks though.

I agree with Doreen about the meadow. I think you could get a similar effect, though, by interspersing flowering plants one with another instead of clumping them. However, in smaller spaces this can actually look busier and less tidy than clumped plants (I made this mistake when I first planted my own garden).

[Ipsos]

Yes old woodchip would be fine. I never could work out where to get it from.

The idea of having a bit of meadow is to have somewhere wildish for the children to sit and mess around. The downside of lots of beds with veg and things like dahlias is that we can't really sit amongst them without squishing them.

Maybe there are other plants that are good for that though?

I've noticed at ds's school that they have a small woodland area that has nothing growing underneath. I think that would be great, but I'm not sure how to pull it off without turning our garden into a small forest.

[Ipsos]

I think when I say a wildflower meadow, I mean that I would weed out the grass and let the flowers grow, so the grass out competing would not be a major issue.

[shovetheholly]

You could have a wildlife area under the trees at the end of the garden?? It would be shady/woodlandy rather than meadowy, but you could easily include a table and chairs under the apple tree. Would also be a cooler place to sit in the heat.

[Ipsos]

Yes that's a thought. :-) That's our prime area for bindweed and bishop's weed, so it could get quite picturesque quite quickly.

I contacted the garden designer and asked if he would just do a design for the hard landscaping only, based on that Chicago garden that I linked above. The plan being that I would then implement it and choose the plants, and he said he could do that after easter. Yay! Now I just need to get the brief clear in my head. Thanks so much for all this discussion. It's really helpful.

[shovetheholly]

That's fantastic news! Definitely have a good old think about the brief - it's amazing now many 'extra' things will occur to you just surfing pinterest or websites. If your bishops' weed is ground elder (lots of plants seem to be called bishops' weed!) then it is edible and you could eradicate AND eat it all at the same time!!

Bindweed has been the bane of my life the last couple of years! I was just saying to Zebra on another thread, you have to get it out by the roots and you do need to get ALL the roots. Otherwise any bits that are left just resprout. It's controllable if you go at it, though.

[Ipsos]

Thanks, yes I must have a good look round and get it all straight in my head. I have until Easter, so that is a good while.

The good news is that my neighbours, who have been farming bindweed for years, have just concreted over the back 10' of their garden so that should keep the bindweed at bay quite solidly. That should solve a problem.

[shovetheholly]

Blimey, 10 feet of concrete?! I didn't think that was allowed any more - I guess it will keep the bindweed at bay, though!!

I'm planning a house extension, and I have (very patient) architects who are doing the work in small chunks, and I am paying them as we go. So they have just sketched up some concept drawings which I'm going to see on Friday (can't wait!) - then they will develop one of these further, with more details, before a third round of final sketches for the builders. It means that I get a chance to think about their initial suggestions and to add things in as we go. Wonder if your garden designer could do something similar so you have a chance to feed in at several stages?

[Ipsos]

I think it's intended to be the base for a new big shed or garden office thing.

Yes it would be good to have input part way. He said he's come and take the specs and send the designs two week later, but I'll ask if I could have input part way. It does worry me a bit that I might give him a bunch of money and end up with a design that I don't really like. That's partly why I'm trying to get the brief as exact as possible.

[Ipsos]

If there are any garden designers out there, might I ask how much detail they like to be given in a design brief? I'm really finding it hard to know how much to write down in advance. Thanks!