How to slow down some very fast growing grass.

[Ipsos]

Hi,

I wondered if I might ask a bit of a tricky question about lawn care? I'm an academic botanist, but an amateur horticulturalist so you can confidently hit me with all the complicated terminology, but any practical ideas will be very much appreciated.

A few years ago I was on a mission to try to get my lawn to be really good. However, I have accidentally overshot a bit and unleashed a monster lawn. I wondered if anybody could possibly give me any advice on how to reign it in a bit?

Here's what happened:

I live in East Anglia and my garden is baking hot and bone dry.

A few years ago in our new (old) house we had a very sad looking, dry, compacted yellow lawn. I tried to perk it up a tiny bit by spreading new seed on top, without altering the ground at all. I also bought a mulching robot mower and mowed twice a week.

Unfortunately the new lawn became incredibly over-vigorous, growing an inch every two days, and causing very problematic hayfever for the family. The hayfever was caused by the smell of the grass, which was very very strong and sweet. The lawn was never allowed to flower or seed so pollen was not a problem.

To solve the hayfever problem, we dug the lawn up and tried to get rid of the new varieties that we had sowed, but that has proved very difficult as they keep resprouting. The seed seller assures me that the grass was normal lawn grass and no fast growing varieties.

After about three years of constantly removing all grass and leaving the ground bare or growing only vegetables, I'm wondering if I could now try letting the lawn grow again to see if I might have eradicated the new varieties. I thought I might also try some strategies to weaken the grown of the grass and slow it down if the new varieties are still present.

I'm really wondering if anyone might be able to suggest strategies to severely weaken the grass? I thought perhaps it might help if I repeatedly leave the grass to grow long and then cut it hard back to ground level as was done with the previous grass. I could also remove and compost the top growth to avoid adding nutrients back to the soil. I thought that might take the wind out of its sails a bit. I wondered if the folks here would have any other ideas about to create really difficult conditions for a lawn, so as to hinder its growth?

The garden is hot and dry, and the soil was previously baked hard, but is now quite soft from being dug over.

This is the grass mix that I sowed. The rapid growth started immediately on sowing so was not caused by nitrogen fixation by the clover plants.


50% - 2.500 - ESQUIRE amenity ryegrass
15% - 0.750 - BROOKLAWN smooth meadowgrass
15% - 0.750 - LIBANO slender fescue
10% - 0.500 - GREENFIELD chewing fescue
05% - 0.250 - HIGHLAND bentgrass
05% - 0.250 - CRUSADER small white clover

I have no idea what the original lawn was.

Thanks so much for reading. It would really be great if I could restore my garden to some kind of functional lawn again.

[Ipsos]

It seems from this article as if I could maybe weaken the grass by just treating it really badly. I wondered if that would be worth a try?

www.gardeners.com/how-to/slow-grow-lawn/8621.html

"Start in midsummer by watering the lawn several times to encourage new growth and make the grass vulnerable. Then, use a lawn mower (with the blade set very low) or a string trimmer to scalp the grass down to the soil surface. The object of the scalping is to shock the grass and rob it of its strength."

[Ipsos]

I wonder if I could perhaps treat my ground like a hay meadow and let it grow really long and then scalp with a strimmer repeatedly. I suppose under that kind of treatment I should deplete the energy of the ground and the plants and maybe that's what happened to my old lawn.

(I'm swithering between the grass-free lawn option and trying to get the grass to behave. I do like the idea of having slow grass back. )

[momb]

You say it never rains there, but you are in East Anglia?

[Ipsos]

Yes that's right. I used to live in Norwich, where it mysteriously only ever seemed to rain at night. Now I'm in Cambridge where it almost never rains. I think we're classed as "arid". In fairness, I'm comparing with the west of Scotland where it really rains a lot.

In this map I grew up in the navy blue bit at the top left and I now live in the yellow bit.

www.british-towns.net/weather/uk-annual-rainfall

[Ipsos]

Another thought that has occurred to me is to fill the lawn with spring bulbs and wildflower species and then mow the grass in between them with a really sharp hoe. (A swoe like this: www.amazon.co.uk/Spear-Jackson-Elements-Style-Angled/dp/B00505ANI4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1454346277&sr=8-6&keywords=hoe%29&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

The swoe would cut off the grass at the roots and really keep it on the back foot while allowing the wildflower species to compete strongly. I thought that might be fun. No idea whether it would help with the hayfever though.

[fredricjameson]

I'm sure I read that the area around Ipswich gets less rainfall a year than some parts of Israel. It's even lower than Cambridge, because the rain just peters out before it gets there.

I am not sure about treating it mean - note that in that article, it's a way to kill the grass in order to establish a finer fescue via overseeding - an alternative to smothering it all in weed sheeting to kill it off. When I've scalped my lawn accidentally with a new lawnmower, it has died, rather than simply grown more slowly.

I don't know if you've seen a hay meadow after it's cut, but it ain't pretty! The bottom of the grass is all yellow and dead, and long grass grows in a more tussocky and spare habit than lawn. I also think that if your problem is allergies, then longer grass that flowers may exacerbate it, rather than alleviating it.

I suspect the answer might be actually the opposite of a harsh cut, i.e a gentle option of mowing less frequently and more gently. I'm no grasses expert, but you're told to mow frequently and to cut quite hard in order to stimulate growth, so I suspect that a harder and more frequent cut essentially turbocharges it. (Similarly, when you're pruning an espaliered apple, if you want a branch to grow faster, you cut it back harder).

There are chemical means (Maleic Hydrazide) but I don't think these are good for the environment, and there seem to be doubts about the safety. I wouldn't, personally!

[Ipsos]

If my plan caused the lawn to die entirely that would be fine too. Then I could sow slower growing, non-smelly grass. I would consider that a major win.

That funny look that you mention on a hay meadow is what our old lawn looked like all the time. That was just fine for us. If I could pull that off as a permanent feature then that would also be great.

It sounds as if I have lots of options to try anyway, which is great.

If all else fails, there's always the roofers flame gun, which worked very well as a stop gap.

If none of it works in the long term, I could always trade in our lawn mower for a rotovator and turn it all over to farming.

[Ipsos]

In all seriousness, do you think that garden design-wise it's a reasonable option to rotavate the area and grow veg in the summer and then wheel in large potted shrubs and dot them all over for the winter to make it look less bare?

The vegetable growing looked lovely in the summer but was so bare in the winter. I wondered if I could just let the grass grow a bit in autumn to disguise the soil and maybe more a big potted maple and couple of conifers out into the middle to make it look nice over the winter. Maybe some pots of bulbs or whatever. It would mean I'd have two entirely different gardens in winter and summer, but that might be okay.

[Ipsos]

I just went out and took a photo of the grass as it is at the moment. This is six weeks growth from last autumn without any reseeding after I spent three years trying to kill the grass off by all possible means. I think it must be zombie grass. :-)

The photo was taking with flash in the dark, which is why it's a bit shadowy.

[Ipsos]

Here are proper photos of 6 weeks growth.

[DoreenLethal]

If you go and dig that up, do you get long white roots - it looks like couch grass.

Anyway OP - before you go hiring landscapers or whoever - you need to decide what you want your garden to be. How do you use your garden? What do you want to do in it when you are there? Start with how you want to use it and work backwards.

[shovetheholly]

Hmmm, normally I'm not a rotavator fan. My experience has been that while a patch that's been done looks clear, the machine just chops weeds into pieces, many of which then sprout. However, that said, the patch above looks pretty spare and sparse - you've done a good job at killing it and it's not really thick, dense turf any more. So I think it could work, particularly if you do the hard graft and try to pull out as many of the pieces as you can, then replant quickly and maintain. (If soil is left bare, then of course you will get all sorts coming back - it's best to cover it with sheeting and work on it bit by bit).

I like the idea of veg growing - I reckon you'll be winning all the prizes at the local fete with soil like that! What about something like a kitchen garden which would look ornamental, with shrubs and fruit around the edge? You can get plenty, plenty, plenty of varieties of veg that you grow overwinter too - so it really needn't be bare. On the allotment thread, we're currently harvesting our chard, celeriac, leeks, sprouting broccoli, kale, and even some beetroot and kohl rabi. And don't underestimate the beauty of a lovely overwintering purple cabbage!! Overwintering peas and broad beans are sprouting, and green manures are sitting ready to be dug in later in the year. Have a look on pinterest for 'potager' - the ornamental French style of kitchen gardening where veg beds are underplanted with flowers and prepare to salivate with envy at some of the beauty on offer.

Just to stress something: I really am not sure the problem will go away if you simply reseed with lawn. First, there with a grass like this that is clearly very vigorous, it may well resprout. Since the other grasses you are planting will be, almost by definition, less vigorous, you may find it just gradually recolonises your lawn. Secondly, there are effects here that may not be so species-specific, for example the heat and light of East Anglia. They really make a difference - I suspect the reason mown grass smells stronger in the south is far more to do with those factors than with the species. (Have you noticed how fragrant mediterranean plants are so much stronger smelling in the heat of Italy or Greece than they are at home? Volatility and heat I guess!) Thirdly, in allergenic terms, more pollen is released as the temperature goes up, and the windless days will keep it hanging around. I suspect this is also why I'm so much more allergic to broadly the same plants in East Anglia than I am in Sheffield.

[shovetheholly]

(The gardener in me also thinks it is a shame to waste such beautiful and fertile soil on lawn! But I know many people love their grass, so this is just me!!)

[Ipsos]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes there are all things I've thought a hundred times myself. I'm really looking to make space for a small boy to kick a football around, so a beautiful potager may not be the thing. I'll keep thinking. :-)

[DoreenLethal]

Have you checked that it isn't couch grass?

[Ipsos]

I see what you mean. It does look like the photos of couch grass online. I haven't seen the crazy underground stems, but it's definitely an unkillable monster grass. I've done everything and it just keeps popping back up. I've heard people muttering online about couch grass. I had no idea that I might unknowingly be fighting it myself.

The advice online seems to be to do all the things I've already done. Oh dear.

[Ipsos]

I just looked underneath a clump of it and I can't see any underground stems, just thin roots, but possibly the big stems have not formed yet as the plants are only just showing a few weeks growth after 3 years of me trying to eradicate them.

[Ipsos]

The lawn area also still has a lot of lesser celandine, which also seems to be tough as old boots. It keeps popping up no matter what I do, as well.

Interestingly, our garden used to be totally infested with Bindweed and we didn't have much trouble at all finishing that off. It's so much easier because it doesn't look exactly like the plant we're trying to replace it with.

[Ipsos]

I just asked my son if he wants to run around and he says actually a climbing frame would be better. Interesting! Maybe I could just pumpkin the garden. :-)

Possibly there could be a potager with paths to run around as an alternative too. Like a train track sort of arrangement.

[shovetheholly]

I haven't seen a garden in East Anglia that doesn't have some couch grass! If it's newly sprouted, you might not see the white stems and characteristic roots (this is good, it also means you can root it up more easily). Surprised by lesser celandine - that likes damp. I think you might get heat and problems of scorch in summer, but your soil might be more water-retentive than you think (this might explain some of the monster rhubarb/rasps).

How much space do you have? Can you have a mini lawn for football/tents/climbing frame or a tree to climb and to swing in and then a veg patch?

How old is your DS? Veg growing can be so much fun for kids. I was given a little plot of ground to grow things in when I was tiny and I LOVED it. I grew massive pumpkins and lots of daffodils.

[DoreenLethal]

I have to agree, if you have good soil don't waste it on a lawn!

We have recently converted our canalside garden from veg beds and borders with a shale paths to a forest garden with about 25 trees and one windy grass path; in this garden there are lots of seating areas, an earth oven, and the veg will be grown in and amongst all the trees and all the mowings will be put onto the beds to compost down. You could do whatever you wanted to yours and just use all trimmings and choppings as a mulch to keep the moisture in.

[shovetheholly]

Doreen - that sounds AMAZING! Love the idea of an earth oven.

[Ipsos]

That does sound lovely. We just have 10m by 25m or thereabouts. It's rectangular with 6' fence panels all round. The rectangle is split with a privet hedge two thirds of the way down. There are two fruit trees and a kitchen garden in the back and bad lawn and a herbaceous border in the front. It's the traditional layout really.

This would all be much easier if I'd name changed and then I could just post a photo. :-)

I would love to have curving paths and not just have everything so square, but I'm not sure how to start with that. Everything is so square already.

[DoreenLethal]

My garden is only 5m wide x about 20m long. My nieces love it - the earth oven is down by the canal so the first thing people see when they go onto the towpath opposite. I built it out of some spare cob that I had after a paid for earth oven session :)

In 10 years it will be a mini woodland area and all we will have to do is to prune it and shred the prunings. Oh and harvest the fruit and veg of course.

[Ipsos]

Do you think this might be the sort of thing? www.houzz.co.uk/photos/570139/potager-garden-traditional-garden-chicago

The kids could run on the path there. Football would not work so well but I'm not sure that it would worth very well on our lawn size either.

Ds is 5 and says he'd like one of these.

www.kidsclimbingframes.co.uk/shop/jungle-gym-climbing-frames/additional-modules/bridge-module?gclid=Cj0KEQiAxMG1BRDFmu3P3qjwmeMBEiQAEzSDLqEt75otwT4C_zUMKl7CUl0OynLj7BLHbKVq1pMSfkkaAlMf8P8HAQ