University Applications- more than good grades?

[glitterbiscuits]

Where to start? I have a DS in y12 in an ordinary state Grammar.
Good GCSEs (4x A* 1x9 2xA 2x8 2xB). We assume he should get 3xA at his Alevels. He has no particular career plan and is a good all rounder. He may go for International Relations or something Geographical.
But everything I read seems to point to good universities/Russell group/ Oxbridge being massively oversubscribed. He’s certain he wants to go to somewhere ‘good’ and is looking forward to uni life already!
What could give him the edge for applications?
We live rurally and not near anywhere for easy access for extra curricular stuff. Although he’s a good pianist. I think we should start making an effort now to see some open days or find something extra to help him.
In my day if you got good grades universities were happy within any of the personal statement stuff.

All suggestions welcome please

[Fffion]

My DD is doing PIR at a good university. As a lazybones, she did very little extra in Sixth Form years - Young Enterprise and helping out at Sunday School. I didn't read her personal statement, but I imagine it was directly related to reading for the course, and what she learnt from her GS&P A-level.

She got five offers, three of which were from Russell Groups. I imagine her offers where based on her GCSEs and her A-level predictions.

[BertrandRussell]

"She actually phoned the other four up to ask why they hadn't offered her a position and general feed back was that they weren't just looking for good A levels, they wanted students who did other things in life, ie sports, music (which your son does do), hobbies"

That's just not true. Think about it-how could it possibly be fair?

[Fffion]

Your UCAS form has five choices, and you get one personal statement. It's unlikely that all five of those places will poo poo not take the trouble to read your PS. You need to put effort into the PS for this reason, but 80 - 90% of it should be about the prospective course.

Grade 8 Piano is a phenomenal achievement, so a mention of it could be about perseverance and attention to detail. If he plays publicly, then about teamwork. Mentions of extra-curriculars should refer to transferable skills.

A lot of university offers are for the predicted grades that the teachers put down, when they are in the range of the standard offer. But plenty are on the lower end of the standard. Could the PS have made the difference? (I'm not talking about widening participation as all four of my kids who, have been through the process have received low offers despite coming from independent schools, who happen to put a huge effort into honing the PS).

The PS is the part of UCAS controlled by the student, after a strategic selection of courses. Put the effort in.

[BubblesBuddy]

Some universities spell out their selection criteria and some do say they give a weighting to the PS. Never assume they ignore it.

If he wants to do Geography surely there is something he’s found interesting about the subject? Has he not done any field trips or found something that he wants to find out more about by reading the latest research into it?

I too would mention the piano for the reasons given above. It will help fill up a few words if nothing else!

[SpareChangeDownTheSofa]

Are there any scout clubs near you? You could ask if he could help out when they're doing orienteering and things?

Get him a subscription to Geography magazines so he has a good base to go off of.

[titchy]

It's unlikely that all five of those places will poo poo not take the trouble to read your PS.

Actually it's highly likely that all five will ignore the PS!

[Fffion]

So this is all bollocks? As well as all the presentations given by admissions tutors to sixth-formers?

"The UCAS Personal Statement
Your Personal Statement is your opportunity to convince Admissions Officers of your suitability for and commitment to the degree programme you have applied to.

What is the Personal Statement for?
It is important to recognise that, when you apply to Edinburgh, you will be competing for a place with many very well-qualified applicants. Your personal statement is your opportunity to make your application stand out.

While good qualifications are essential they are not enough on their own. Admissions Officers will want to be confident that students have the necessary skills and attributes for the degree programme.

What should the Personal Statement include?
In your Personal Statement you should ideally:

Explain why you want to study the subject courses you have applied for
Demonstrate a clear understanding of the subject/degree
What knowledge of the subject can you demonstrate?
Provide evidence that you understand the career implications of your choice
Detail any relevant skills or experience
Outline any relevant personal qualities, interests and skills and indicate how these have been developed
Depending on the degree programme you are applying for, admissions staff will be looking for different things from your Personal Statement.

More details on what sort of skills, experience or attributes are required can be found in the UCAS Entry Profiles."

[titchy]

For most courses at most universities yes it's bollocks.

A few courses at a few universities WILL however use the PS.

[Fffion]

DESCRIPTION
At Royal Holloway we are offering school pupils the opportunity to come to our beautiful 135 acre campus for our Personal Statement Surgery on Wednesday 25th October 2017. The session is ideal for Year 12 or 13 students.
A professional member of staff from the Student Recruitment and Admissions team will guide pupils through the perfect personal statement, revealing exactly what admissions tutors are looking for. The session will be fun and interactive, where pupils will reflect on their own interests, passions and achievements to create a strong first draft of their personal statement.

[titchy]

Well they could hardly write 'we're experiencing a recruitment crisis and are desperate for bums on seats so please come and visit and we'll treat you really well in the hope you'll pick us!'

[titchy]

Anyway that sort of outreach event is the sort that everyone pretty much has to do as a condition of charging higher fees.

[GHGN]

Judging from the increasing number of unconditional offers for year 13 students whom I teach, many from RG universities, it is definitely a buyer market. Many of the lower ranked universities offer "scholarship" to attach better candidates as well.

[jeanne16]

My DS and I visited Warwick last year. We sat through the formal admissions process where we were told how all the personal statements are read and his seriously they take them.

We then visited the Engineering Department and while the students were being given a tour, I chatted to the Head of Admissions. I asked a question about the PS to which he replied 'just write anything, no one ever reads them'. On seeing my face, he did try to back track a bit but rather unsuccessfully.

My DS applied to Warwick and received an offer 48 hours later so they obviously didn't read anything. I rather wish the universities would just scrap the whole process of writing them.

[LoniceraJaponica]

"The unis are struggling to fill their places."

Are fewer students applying to university these days?

DD will be very lucky to get an offer as she is applying for medicine and has struggled to get any work experience due to her age. Every place she has applied to has said that she needs to be 18 (she will turn 18 after she leaves school). She has been a young leader at Brownies for the last year though so I hope this will help.

[titchy]

I don't think you can regard medicine demand and supply as an indicator of demand and supply on other courses (medicine numbers are capped for one).

I hope she's chosen sensibly - a brownie young leader wouldn't be anywhere near sufficient for most medicine applications, but some universities place less emphasis on this aspect of the application. If she's determined though she should think of it as a two year process and have another go once she's got some health care experience.

[titchy]

More generally university income hasn't changed for years so the only way to keep up with costs is to have more students. EU applications are seriously down, and there is a decline in the number of UK 18 year olds, so yes there is a problem with filling spaces across the sector as a whole.

[oklookingahead]

"My DS applied to Warwick and received an offer 48 hours later so they obviously didn't read anything. I rather wish the universities would just scrap the whole process of writing them."

Yes, what a waste of time (and the students do spend a lot of time on PSs) if nobody reads them. Or do they perhaps have some value in encouraging students to think about what they really want to do and why, so ensuring they make a more careful choice of course? Or just learning to write a good self-presentation?

[LoniceraJaponica]

"If she's determined though she should think of it as a two year process and have another go once she's got some health care experience."

She is. She has applied to do voluntary care work in a residential care home, and it looks like she will be accepted as they have asked for documents for a DBS check.

[titchy]

Great! Good luck to her! It's tough being the youngest in the year.

[inchyrablue]

I wouldn’t say you should discount a PS having been read just because of a quick offer. DD had an offer within hours from one RG university that clearly referenced something from her PS.

[Haffdonga]

Universities want to give the impression that they're hard to get in to and that the PS is a deciding factor to create a perception of high value and high demand for places. But for most subjects, unis just want the students with the best A level grades as these are the students most likely to achieve the best degrees. (Hence the UCAS adjustment system where unis will happily let in high achieving students who didnt even apply for their course,)

[Daisymay2]

Ds2 has a good Geog degree from a Russell Gp Uni.Got 5 offers from RG/1992 (?) unis in the last year of the £3K fees -so big competition. Didn't have lots of extracuricular but did DoE.
It is worth becoming a student member of the royal Geog Society- as well as advance notification of meeting/lecture etc , he also got the Geographical magazine and he was able to mention articles he read in his PS. DS2 referred to stuff he heard on the" history of the world in 100 articles" in his ps for history!! Perhaps being well read is the answer rather than lots of courses. Grade 8 piano is not to be sniffed at. Any chance of doing DOE bronze??