University Applications- more than good grades?

[glitterbiscuits]

Where to start? I have a DS in y12 in an ordinary state Grammar.
Good GCSEs (4x A* 1x9 2xA 2x8 2xB). We assume he should get 3xA at his Alevels. He has no particular career plan and is a good all rounder. He may go for International Relations or something Geographical.
But everything I read seems to point to good universities/Russell group/ Oxbridge being massively oversubscribed. He’s certain he wants to go to somewhere ‘good’ and is looking forward to uni life already!
What could give him the edge for applications?
We live rurally and not near anywhere for easy access for extra curricular stuff. Although he’s a good pianist. I think we should start making an effort now to see some open days or find something extra to help him.
In my day if you got good grades universities were happy within any of the personal statement stuff.

All suggestions welcome please

[titchy]

Mostly there's no choice to be made - you got A* predictions you get the offer - let's be honest very few kids actually have straight Astar predictions.

Bear in mind the majority of those offered will decline the offer, and of those that do accept many will miss their grades and end up elsewhere. Then a proportion just won't turn up.

Where choices do need to be made they'll be made on the basis of grades, subjects taken, then genuine interest shown in the subject. Never on the ability to lead the university to rowing success.

[puppypower1]

He should read be reading relevant books. What aspect of International Relations or geography interests him? Look for useful websites. Listen to radio 4 podcasts. Look at modules on uni courses and see if any of them grab him and then try and find online lectures etc. There are SO many free resources available. Residential summer schools next summer would be perfect for him - search for them now and apply in good time. Subscribe to magazines - The Spectator, The New Statesman, Prospect.....they allow a few free articles a month if you don't want to subscribe. Read the newspaper - a broadsheet, read the opinion pieces. Follow a political situation daily - what is happening in Spain and why? What's the history of the situation.

This is all stuff to (1) see if he's actually interested in the subject he wants to study and (2) stuff to demonstrate this for his personal statement.

Most importantly work hard and get good predicted grades and apply smart to a range of unis - aspirational to dead cert in a list of 5.

Piano, sport, DoE - irrelevant but nice to do for sanity.

[BeatriceBeaudelaire]

I did DoE, poetry/ competition wins, volunteering at a charity shop, part time job, volunteered at a primary school, bag packed for volunteer medics, online diplomas in sign language ...
Volunteering and sports are the best way to go as well as entering any skill competitions he can.

[titchy]

Volunteering and sports are the best way to go

No they're not - have you actually read the thread?

[BertrandRussell]

"Volunteering and sports are the best way to go as well as entering any skill competitions he can."

No they aren't. They make absolutely no difference to university admissions unless they are directly linked to the course he wants to study

A few moments thought will tell you why.

[BackforGood]

The only reason he might find it a bit more difficult, is if he goes to interview. Sometime people who have been involved with all sorts of other folk (through hobbies or volunteering in whatever area) can interview better - either through their passion or through being used to talking to all sorts of other people they don't know.
That said, masses (the vast majority ?? - I'm guessing that bit) don't have interviews, so in terms of University entrance, I don't think it is a big issue.

[BeatriceBeaudelaire]

Sorry, you’re all right I didn’t RTFT ... apologies.
My advice was probably more anecdotal too ... just what worked for me in relation to my course.

Ignore me OP, I’ll be more conscientious in reading the full thread next time.

[BubblesBuddy]

At many RG universities, having the A levels they prefer at the right grades trumps all. Oxford and Cambridge and courses that interview will read the PS. Some universities weight it in making their decisions. Bristol frequently says it does this so don't go down the route of thinking no-one reads it!

Lots of the advice above is useful. Ask him to explain why he wants to do the course because this is the bulk of the ps. He needs to be able to back that up with areas he is interested in and how he has found out about it to demonstrate he has an interest. About 1/4 should be about you as a person, other achievements, and what makes you tick.

I am always interested in the idea that summer schools are good. They usually cost money and are used, mostly, by the middle classes. There are ones for poor people or those who go to a poor school, but the "just about managing" families get no help and often don't know about the summer schools, let alone be able to afford one. What you have done that doesn't cost money should count for more. I am never sure it does though. Some friends of our went on holiday to North Korea so their son could write about it in his ps for IR. Expensively extreme and it should have been ignored - but was it?

So he should try and think what interests him about these subjects, bearing in mind Geography courses vary widely so he needs to look at the distinct differences. IR is a pretty easy subject for which to formulate a ps. There is so much to be interested in! If he's not interested enough to read and have opinions about what he wants to learn, are these the best subjects for him?

[Archfarchnad]

DD1 is studying International Politics at a well- regarded European university (oversubscribed by 5 to 1 for her course). In her case grades were only one aspect considered for selection (there was also an academic essay, a letter of motivation, a 30-min interview and CV), so fairly different to the more grade-motivated British system, but these were some of the things she mentioned in her application:
Participating in a number of MUN events (and co-organizing one).
Participating in quite a few selective non-school European history and politics projects for teenagers.
Being bilingual plus fluency in a third language (relevant because a lot of IR and politics courses have a language component, so it helps to demonstrate linguistic competence).
Competence in maths (lots of IR and politics courses will involve economics or statistics - a GCSE wouldn't get you far there).
Tutoring several refugees who come from the geographical area she's specialising in.
She went to international schools, which made the transition to an international course much smoother.
We always have the BBC World Service on at home, so she grew up hearing about world politics. She also did several politics modules in her final year at school to give an understanding of the background issues, and did an extended essay (or is it an extended project in the U.K.) which was politics and maths related.
At the Uni she attends that kind of CV is absolutely standard - but perhaps your DS would have time to do one or two of them in the next year. Does he have basic maths and language skills beyond GCSE?

[glitterbiscuits]

Thanks for all the replies.

@Archfarchnad - he has a grade 8 maths GCSE and a B further maths and an A* French. He’s taking A-level French

Because he doesn’t know what he wants career wise he just picked things he liked.

I feel a bit relieved that it’s more likely to be good grades that will win him a place rather than volunteering or summer courses.

I don’t know how some of the super achievers I read about fit everything in. Maybe they have more hours in their days than we do.......

I long for the days when he was in Reception class and my biggest educational gripe was no one had changed his reading book.

[voilets]

Has plenty to say.
Why heimes his subject with slecific examples of what he's done.
Start wider reading now.
Dedicated tosomething like piano seen in grade 8
Job in gardening centre and what that taught him - link it to geography at all?
If he can do a lecture or online one to show some interest in uni life would be good.
Grades matter most and references will help.

[voilets]

*Why he likes his subject
*with specific examples of essays or projects etc.
Sorry on phone - typos. 😊

[user918273645]

You probably need to be more realistic about university admissions. Since number caps on students were removed, universities have started competed against each other to get students. The very top universities are still selecting students on qualities in addition to grades but it is certainly not true that all courses at all Russell Group universities are over-subscribed.

A number of RG geography courses were in Clearing, accepting all students who had AAB/ABB. Politics at many RG universities was similarly in Clearing. You will not get into the very top places with missed grades but many very good universities will offer based on predicted grades and accept you even if you miss one grade.

Look at offer rates by courses and average UCAS points of entrants to get an idea of which courses are selecting (incoming students may well have grades above the offer grades) and which are offering to all students who are likely to get the required grades.

[homebythesea]

Another Mum of Geographer

Another one whose Dc didn't do much extra curricular

Student membership of RGS is not much and gives access to online videos of lectures. Read a couple of books eg about global warming, societal change, influence of China on Global affairs and write about what you found interesting about them. IE show why you want to study the subject.

Honestly there is so little space on the UCAS form to wang on about Clarinet grade 4 and volunteering at the local cats home

And when the UCAS form went in 3/5 offers came in within 48 hours. BEACSUE PREDICTED GRADES MATCHED REQUIREMENTS. You cannot tell me that any human read and cogitated on the finely honed PS in that time (first came in within 6 hours!!!!)

Lesson: for most courses at most places if your predicted grades match requirements you are highly likely to get an offer

[jeanne16]

This year Warwick and Exeter had practically every course in Clearing. The fact is that since the cap came off the student numbers, if you have the predicted grades you will get an offer regardless of any other factors (with the exception of Oxbridge ). The unis are struggling to fill their places.

What this says about the chance of getting a graduate job is another matter. There are so many graduates coming out of the top universities trying to get the limited number of jobs.

[titchy]

This year Warwick and Exeter had practically every course in Clearing

No they didn't. They both had about a dozen, out of over a hundred, courses in clearing. Some of those would have been aimed at adjustment applicants as well.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

My DD did youth theatre. But apart from that her idea of a good time was a gig or a festival or dancing all night at a techno club. She went to the gym but didn't do any kind of organised sport.

Her personal statement was about her passion for her subject: books she had read, trips and vists she had made off her own bat. She was predicted 3 As and got offers from all the top units she applied to.

However she has chosen instead to go abroad to a Uni that dosesn't even ask for a personal statement in the application process.

[FreedaDonkey]

We've got a Facebook group for all things University related, loads of parents with kids at uni who will be able to help. I have one at a RG and one in year 13 just applying at the moment.

m.facebook.com/groups/488235648182391

(What I wish I knew about university)

[JoanBartlett]

I have a geographer at Bristol (AAA). I don't aree it is easy to get in now by the way and loads of my son's friends did not get in to where they wanted to go because their grades were not what they hoped.


However your son's GCSEs seems very good and he seems to have an awful lot of them too in terms of numbers. I have not read back to read what A levels he is doing but noticed French and presumably geog. So assuming his others are decent subjects too he will have a very good chance of a good university.

I really don't think the extra curricular stuff matters a huge amount. My son did tons of it, loads, music scholarship, core of the school music, masses of sport , prefect. His brother did none. Both got in. (different subjects).

The school will help you with the personal statement which will be more about the interest in the subject and what he has done such as reading around the subject, out of school lectures or whatever, not about your hobbies although worth putting a few of the hobbies on of course and any grade 8 musics you mentioned.

Mine had no interviews.

[ifonly4]

I do know of a girl who only got one offer from her chosen universities. She actually phoned the other four up to ask why they hadn't offered her a position and general feed back was that they weren't just looking for good A levels, they wanted students who did other things in life, ie sports, music (which your son does do), hobbies. I'm guessing a Russell Group university might be interested in your son being a pianist if there are any extra activities he could get involved at at university or if it's relevant to his course.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

That's unusual. I wonder what the subject was?

[TheLuminaries]

ifonly that sounds very unusual - what was the course ? And what were the Universities? It doesn't reflect my experience, working in HE, where top grades trump everything. Oxford & Cambridge may be different, but you say there were 4 that valued extra curricular over good grades. I have honestly never come across that before.

[TheLuminaries]

I'm guessing a Russell Group university might be interested in your son being a pianist if there are any extra activities he could get involved at at university or if it's relevant to his course.

Only if it is relevant to the course, the potential to join clubs and societies could not be less relevant.

[user918273645]

I do know of a girl who only got one offer from her chosen universities.

As somebody who works in HE, I would wonder whether she is telling you the truth.

You are only rejected from lots of courses if the subject is very competitive (e.g. medicine) or you apply to only the very top places (Oxford etc) and your grades aren't comparable to the requirements i.e. you are not academically as strong as those who receive offers.

It is hard to believe that somebody was rejected from courses for non-academic reasons such as wanting more roundedness.

[JoanBartlett]

Yse surprises me too and schools are normally very good at saying okay if you really have to have one go at a place you don't have much chance of getting into (although even then it's a bad idea) but make your other choices all realistic.