Kinship placement not going well

[K37529]

Sorry this is going to be a long post. We started fostering my nephew 2.5 years ago and then got my niece a few months later ( she moved in with her dad after being removed from her mothers care but he basically abandoned her to go on a long binge and has had little contact since). We’re really struggling with my niece to the point we’re I don’t know if we can do it anymore. She fights me on every single thing and I don’t ask much I mean silly things like getting dressed, brushing her teeth, putting her coat on, every little thing becomes a big problem. I’d expect this from a much younger child but she is 11. She has a constant attitude and acts so entitled. Constantly complaining that we don’t do enough for her, don’t take her enough places, don’t buy her enough and I assure you she probably gets a lot more than most. She constantly complains that she doesn’t like the food I make but won’t tell me what she wants instead just says “not that” with an attitude. She completely changes the atmosphere of the house if she’s in a bad mood everyone is (and she usually is). She constantly picks on her brother everytime he speaks she tells him to shut up or calls him stupid annoying etc. i don’t know what to do anymore she is making life so hard. We don’t have any family who can help so me and my partner are basically on our own. Social services have been promising regular respite for both children since august but we’re still waiting. I’ve tried talking to her so many times but she just stares at the floor and says nothing, I’ve asked her if she wants to live here and she just says well where else am I going to go again with an attitude. There is no one else in my family who can take her so if things don’t work out here she will go into stranger foster care. I feel so conflicted I love her so much she is my niece and we had a really close relationship before all this happened, she has always been a difficult child but I was able to hand her back now I’m dealing with her 24/7 and we are so drained by it. She has been to play therapy which didn’t help, then went to a social worker who deals with trauma which didn’t help, after months of weekly sessions the social worker said that it was not working as she would not engage and referred her to cahms (or however it is spelt) before Christmas but we are still waiting for that and I doubt it will help because I know she won’t engage. Any ideas on how to deal with a difficult foster child? Or should we just give up? Part of me thinks that maybe she would be better of with someone else, someone who could give her all their attention (I have my own children and her brother so constant one on one time is not possible) but at the same time Im worried about where she’ll go, how she’ll be treated, that she’ll feel abandoned again etc

[PingPages]

Poor girl I know poor you too as it sounds so tough… but what must be going through her mind having been abandoned by both her parents. She’s probably expecting you to reject her too (no qualifications for me to assert that, just guessing). Have you looked up any charities in your local area? I’m not sure what. Do you have 1-1 time?

[RewildingAmbridge]

IME this isn't uncommon, she's been abandoned twice, she's essentially testing you to see if you will do it too. She's internalised the abandonment as her fault and thinks that love and family are conditional.
She needs support and therapy, and honestly she may have issues with all kinds of relationships even as an adult.
All you can do is love bomb her, and just repeat that you love her, she's part of your family and you would never send her away. It's a long hard slog, you're doing something amazing for those children OP, please try and hold on to that.

[watcherintherye]

I should imagine this is her pushing boundaries to see how far she can push before you, too, have had enough of her, which is how she probably feels about her parents. I’m no psychologist, but isn’t this fairly common in cases of parental abandonment/ill-treatment? The child feels as though they must be unloveable, so acts accordingly? So very hard for you all. I hope you get some good advice on here.

[artisanbread]

Have you been in touch with the Kinship care charity? They may be able to support you?

kinship.org.uk/

[EducatingArti]

Join the therapeutic parenting group on Facebook for lots of help and support and ideas how to tackle this.

[K37529]

@RewildingAmbridge I completely get that she’s expecting to be abandoned again so she’s testing us but she has been here two years how long is she going to keep testing us 😣

@PingPages 1-1 time is really hard my children are 1 and 2 years old and her brother is special needs so they all need a lot of care and we have very little outside help. I did take her to get her nails done the other day but tbh times like that are rare because the other 3 take up a lot of my time. We do have a lot of days out as a family though, will look into charities thanks

[BracedlnEndIessJanuary]

She fights me on every single thing and I don’t ask much I mean silly things like getting dressed, brushing her teeth, putting her coat on, every little thing becomes a big problem. I’d expect this from a much younger child but she is 11. She has a constant attitude and acts so entitled. Constantly complaining that we don’t do enough for her, don’t take her enough places, don’t buy her enough and I assure you she probably gets a lot more than most. She constantly complains that she doesn’t like the food I make but won’t tell me what she wants instead just says “not that” with an attitude. She completely changes the atmosphere of the house if she’s in a bad mood everyone is (and she usually is). She constantly picks on her brother every time he speaks she tells him to shut up or calls him stupid annoying etc. I don’t know what to do anymore she is making life so hard.

Is she going through puberty? She sounds just like my own daughter. I grit my teeth, ignore it, separate her from her brother and scream in my car!

[LiesDoNotBecomeUs]

this is so tough on you op! You have my heartfelt sympathy.

We have fostered 8 tween/teen children over the years and I recognise the behaviour you describe perfectly.

You absolutely deserve respite!

I think it likely that this behaviour isn't her real self and that it will change if you can hang on.

You sound to be doing all the right things- talking explaining (trying to get pro help).

She is certainly testing you and this home... and probably doesn't want to engage or get too close because she expects it to fail again (we all learn from experience and hers had been terrible until now).

Would it help to think of her as a much younger child?

We found some of ours years behind their actual age and really needing to be 'babied'. They did catch up but it took a while.

[BracedlnEndIessJanuary]

Extra pocket money for chores. Own space away from brother. Own pet (therapy). Own recipes/encourage to shop and teach to cook for herself.
It is wearing. The 1-1 is a challenge but even if it is just one show both of you watch together on sofa, when others are in bed, then that helps.

[5zeds]

I’d say a hugely hard few years for her and as someone else has said the dreaded puberty. Can you stretch to after school activities? Something like riding/gymnastics/dance/ judo/ice skating? Something to be all about her and get her physically tired.

[User310]

as PP said, this sounds identical to my cousins 11 year old daughter. No trauma, loved dearly, is provided a very good quality of life and is just awful to her parents and siblings.

I think this is just something you are going to have to go through and learn to ignore somewhat if you can?

I know it really gets my cousin and her husband down though.

[MrsLargeEmbodied]

dont take it personally.
just ignore the bad behaviour and praise the good

[Coyoacan]

I think what RewildingAmbridge says is true but it is terrible that you aren't getting more support.

[BlankTimes]

Have a look at Dr Ross Greene's book 'The Explosive Child' and his website 'Lives in the Balance' for parenting techniques that have had a lot of success with children who don't respond well to conventional parenting.

her brother is special needs
Don't rule out the possibility that she could also be neurodiverse. Or displaying symptoms of attachment disorder. Look up strategies for parenting children with with PDA.

[Cassimin]

Have to agree with BlankTimes
As I was reading it sounded just like my FS.
Hes diagnosed ASD with PDA.
Try using strategies that help.
No other advice other than pick your battles!

[BuanoKubiamVej]

That does sound really tough.

No she will not be happier anywhere else. Her best chance of happiness is with you.

Her attrocious behaviour is completely to be expected. 11yos on the cusp of puberty can be somewhat of a nightmare even when they are in a completely secure and stable situation. The instability and disruption in her life will only have made that go worse from a pretty difficult baseline. To some extent try to perceive that when she's behaving badly she is (a) trying to give vent to the frustration and upset that she is validly experiencing from elsewhere in her life and (b) feels sufficiently safe and secure that she CAN express that - a more compliant child moght actually be suffering even worse stress but too terrified to express it, so actually the bad behaviour might indicate a lower level of deep trauma than might otherwise have been the case. Obviously that doesn't make the bad behaviour acceptable but might help you to tackle it with a more positive attitude.

None of this is her fault. She has been massively let down by both her parents. The local authorities and charities who would be obliged to step in if you give up are so overstretched and inadequately resourced that they would almost certainly fail too. You are her best hope and no it's not fair on you or the rest of your family that you should be suffering this fallout and it's ok to not do it perfectly. Doing the best you can, with love that she is never in doubt of, will be ok.

[needmorethanthis]

There’s a condition called passive demand avoidance. Where the automatic reaction is no and a push back. My son does it. Google it as it gives you tips for asking them to do things in a different way. So for example instead of saying “clean your teeth now” you would say “oh wow is that the time. Has everyone done all they need to do? Is there anything left to do before we all
leave the house? Can anyone think of jobs left to do? My brain can’t think today! I need your help guys.” That kind of thing. It’s kind of empowering them to lead the way…it’s annoying but it does work. In your position I’d pay for her to have a one to one weekly with a child psychologist. It costs about £45 a week but it was worth it. She’s traumatised and who wouldn’t be in her position.

[LittleMissLego]

What kind of placement is she on? Do you have an SGO? Or is it a private fostering arrangement? Or are you official forster carers. The reason i ask is that social services will have differing levels of responsibility depending on the type of placement.

Id firstly contact the school and ask them to divert some of her budget to support - either therapy, or something to boost her confidence (our school has been known to fund sports lessons outside of the school for those in care), etc. But firstly speak to the school and insist they help.

Secondly, contact social services and say the placement is at risk of breaking down becaise of their lack of support. That it higher if you need to. Sadly the squeaky wheel gets the oil. So although you are exhausted and probably dont have the energy to endlessly phone, demand, complain keep at it until you have your regular respite set up.

Add to this that 11 year olds can be full of hormones and attitude then mix that in with abandonment issues and you get a very unhappy child who lashes out at those she feels safe with.

Id look at what your paperwork says and insist that social services meets their obligations. Get the social worker to chase the CAHMS referral or get them to fund private treatment. Get your respite.

[AxolotlEars]

Oh bless her... children who have experienced trauma or adverse child experiences have totally different needs and behaviours. Someone has already mentioned the therapeutic parenting group which is on Facebook...it's really good. Read up on P.A.C.E and Dan Hughes. Anything by Sarah Naish.

[Swayingpalmtrees]

Poor poor little thing, what a dreadful thing to happen to her, and all credit to you for taking care of her op for the last few years, she will one day thank you for everything you have done.

My dd became very demanding at this age too, can you not organise a huge time table to keep her super busy and one that tires her out, so she comes home and doesn't have the energy to argue and is ready to relax, and then you can schedule in girls only mornings and take her out just with you for some one to one time. Keep reinforcing your commitment and love for her. It is all you can, that and tons of support. Are there other family members that can help?

[RaspberryChouxBuns]

I have no insight OP, but I just wanted to wish you well. I started my period at 11, so puberty may well be in full swing. She will feel completely out of balance emotionally, with hormones and her history. You do need to reinforce boundaries, does she enjoy any interests/hobbies?

[ScatteredMama82]

OP I'm so sorry for you and for your niece. I have no experience of fostered or traumatised kids but I didn't want to read and run. She's 11, been with you 2 years so presumably had a very disrupted life until she was 9. I look at my youngest, who is 7.5 and I can't imagine how he would be if he'd been taken away from my and then his Dad too. He's still very much a little boy who needs security, cuddles and reassurance. She's not had that. I know you say she is still testing you, but I don't think it will be a conscious decision to do so. Inside there is still a very small child feeling unloved, scared and abandoned. You are doing a very good thing by giving her and her brother a loving and stable home. I hope you get more support in some form soon.

[K37529]

@LittleMissLego ive not actually heard of sgo? And we are officially her foster carers through a kinship placement. Social services are aware that we are struggling, we told them last year that we couldn’t do it anymore and I contacted her dad to see if anyone in his family could take her but when he asked around and everyone said no I couldn’t just send her away to strangers so we told ss we would keep her and they offered a lot of support that hasn’t manifested. I will contact ss today and see if they will chase up cahms referral.

a lot of yous have said about puberty she definitely is going through this, she started getting her period a few months ago so I know this is also affecting her behaviour.

some of you have mentioned pda I’ve never heard of this but will Google and see if that can give some insight. I definitely think she has some kind of undiagnosed mental health disorder and I’m hoping that when she is eventually seen by cahms that she will help with this

[K37529]

@5zeds we have tired her with multiple after school activities gymnastics, boxing, dance, clubs etc she always quits after a few weeks, the only thing she is interested in doing is playing the Xbox. She was going to an after school club twice a week where she is collected from school and taken to do activities like they go to McDonald’s, swimming or play places but they contacted us before Easter and said that it wasn’t suitable for her anymore because she won’t join in she just sits with the staff quietly and waits for it to be over

[LittleMissLego]

An SGO is a Special Guardianship Order, it gives you legal parental responsibility. Social services like to push them because it removes a child from their caseload after 2 years as you are then legally responsible. There are good points to sgo's (far less social services involvement, you can take the child abroad without getting permission, etc) so it works for some families, but it means that fostering payments, social services support will stop. Unless it is written into the agreement. So if it is something that is suggested by the social worker id say make sure you get excellent legal advice before going to court to ensure you can push for things your family need and get it written into the court documents.

Who currently has parental responsibility for the children? Is it social services, is it the dad? If youre not sure think about if the child needed a medical procedure like an operation who would sign the consent form? Witjout an sgo it wouldnt be you, so who would it be?

Sadly social services is massivly lacking funding, so things that cost money like respite can occasionally be promised but fail to materialise unless you really push.

Its such a difficult position youve been put in. But please do start insisting on getting the help youre entitled to, financial, emotional support and therapy, behaviour assessments, respite wise, physical support for helping her brothers additional needs, etc. Some can be arranged via social services, some can be facilitated by whichever teacher is the lead for children in care at the school. But push for help with getting all the support you're entitled to, and that these children are entitled to.