Please help my fish :(

[Momentarynamechange]

Hello,
I have 2 fantail (gold?)fish, bought from a pet shop 3 years ago.

I have a Biorb 60 litre aquarium, complete with pump, filter etc.

For over a year, they've had what I can only think is Swim bladder. We've tried every swim bladder treatment on the market, following the instructions to a t. Nothing seems to work

When one is not eating he's up at the surface upside down, it's heartbreaking. The other has learned to wedge himself in the weeds when not eating.

I feel terrible. We seem to have tried everything and have had no luck. Just watched the surface floater and he was making a massive effort to swim down and he just couldn't do it (except if food is involved), he just seems to be 'pulled' back up the top, where he turns upside down again.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with their appetite, but the surface floater does quite frequently get red looking sores on his side, usually a few days of Melafix sorts this out and they go

Please help my fishies Any advice very gratefully appreciated (their names are Phil and Michael by the way, and they are a much loved part of the family )

[coinoperatedgirl]

How is your water quality? Do a nice big water change, could help.

[Momentarynamechange]

Hi coinoperated, we did do a 3/4 change about 5 weeks ago, made sure all the bits were added to the new water (stress zyme, stress coatetc.)... they seemed generally more chipper, but still the floating problem.

Since then we've tried yet another swim bladder treatment, with no success. I'm really at a loss now as to what to do .

Thanks for replying

[coinoperatedgirl]

I think you need to do more regular water changes, plus 60 litres is not that large for 2 goldfish. I would do a 25-50% water change as soon as you can and keep it up, at least once a week. Do you have test strips for the water quality? Because that is the most likely cause of the difficulties.

[coinoperatedgirl]

Plus,you are dechlorinating the water, yes?

[rinabean]

I asked my partner, he knows quite a lot about fish.

He says you seem to be doing everything right, the tank seems an ok size for the two fish, so either it's a congenital problem (fancy fish tend towards the weak end of things, and fantails often have mild swim bladder problems) or they are accidentally eating air which is worsening their problem. Have you tried sinking food? It might help. Otherwise, he says take them to the shop you got them from and see what they think. He also says you should do more frequent smaller water changes (if you're not already, it's not clear if the big change was just a one-off thing)

It's good to hear that you're concerned about them. I hope you can find a solution!

[Momentarynamechange]

Hello, thanks so much for the advice

We probably could/should do water changes more regularly - how often and how much would you recommend? I've been a bit scared off from doing that too often because I thought that it was important to maintain the biological "balance" (I'm not sure what that is lol, I heard people taking about it on forums!)

Re the sinking, I always put the pinch of food under the water level and make sure it sinks and doesn't stay on the surface. Also, they never gasp for air at the top (I remember our goldfish from my childhood days doing this a lot).

Rinabean, unfortunately the pet shop we bought them from has now become an 'e-bay exchange point' ... but... bizarrely... run by the same couple!! The changeover was very Mr Ben! In theory, I could go and ask them though...

[Momentarynamechange]

Sorry coinoperated, meant to include this in post above, I add stress zyme when I change the water, which I think does the dechlorination process?

[Momentarynamechange]

Anyhoo, am off to bed in a minute but thanks all for your input and any more advice gratefully received , will check back tomorrow

[EauRouge]

Afternoon :)

Unfortunately bi-orbs are not very good for goldfish (despite what the marketing lies blurb says). The small water volume and tiny surface area does not result in good water conditions! Goldfish get very large and need massive tanks, sit down before you read this.

You need to be doing water changes every week, probably more with such a small tank with a insufficient filter. If you get a water test kit it will be able to tell you more. Liquid test kits are better than the dipstick kind.

[Momentarynamechange]

Thanks so much guys for all the advice.
Have done a 25% water change today and added stress zyme etc.
Oh no re my bioorb!! I daren't click that link eaurouge as I'm not in a position to replace it currently! I'll make sure I do weekly water changes in the meantime - I certainly haven't been doing changes that often, so hopefully that will help

Should I add some melafix now - will that help do you think?

Also, noticed this morning a SNAIL in the tank! Have never put snails in the tank, I can only think it grabbed a ride in on some weed! Are snails okay in there? [can't kill snails emoticon]

Thanks again, hopefully I can get them the right way round eventually...

[EauRouge]

I would fix the water quality before using any meds, especially as melafix can interfere (although only very slightly) with gas exchange which is already a nightmare in the biorb.

If you're on a budget then freecycle is a good place to get fish tanks.

I wouldn't worry too much about the snail, they are pretty much inevitable in aquaria and they shouldn't take over if you don't overfeed your fish.

[Momentarynamechange]

Thanks eaurouge , had another thought this evening...
Currently, the water is up to approx. 2 inches from the top of the tank. Would it help if I lowered the water level a bit, giving a larger water surface?

Sorry for all the questions

[MrsNoggin]

Disclaimer - I'm no great fish expert, have been on here for advice a few times now!

But I just wanted to ask a weird question - could it be their diet?

Only my short fat fancy goldfish gets constipated and his rear pulls him upwards. It really affects his swimming and it can bring me to tears watching his futile struggles to get down from the surface. I went to the fish shop to ask about swim bladder treatments and he advised me to feed him peas first and see if it helps. (Very nice man, didn't make any money from me that day!)

Apparently if they get all bunged up it can compress their swim bladder. Especially the fancy ones, as their insides can be really squished about into funny places. I was a bit . But they get peas every few days now and the problem is pretty much gone.

But, then again, I may be talking nonsense!

[Momentarynamechange]

Hello MrsNoggin,

Oh you sound just like me! Was watching the tank last night and felt a bit teary seeing Phil struggle to get down and just run out of puff and float back to the top...

Do you know I heard that pea tip before, and way back, when the problem first developed, I did try the peas. From what I can remember it didn't make an obvious difference though

Although I'm at the stage now when any tip can't hurt so combined with weekly water changes I might try the odd 'pea' meal to see if that helps things. Thanks for the suggestion

I'm also a bit worried as Phil is a complete pig, and I'm actually wondering if he's eating snails?!? Would that be awful? If it's small enough, I can guarantee he'll have hoovered it up...

[Momentarynamechange]

Eaurouge, are you the poster whose fish watch Top Gear?

If so, I think you've given me some advice in the past

I have got a water testing kit and I will dig that out this week and see what's going on with the water quality.

[EauRouge]

Diet can affect the swimbladder as well, it's worth giving the peas another go.

Dropping the water level would increase surface area but then decrease the water volume so I don't think it would make an awful lot of difference.

If the snails are very small then he could be eating them, I don't think it will do him any harm though.

[Momentarynamechange]

I can bet anything he'll have eaten some!

Will certainly give the peas another go, off to supermarket this evening, and will keep up the weekly water changes

[EauRouge]

Don't forget to take the skins off!

[Momentarynamechange]

Bugger! I forgot to get the peas!!

Will get some tomorrow and treat them . Can anyone tell me how often I should feed them peas?

And again apologies for all the questions!

[EauRouge]

I would only do it when they're bunged up, certainly no more than once a week. You can give them other veg too like sweetcorn (remove the skins) and they love romaine lettuce but you need to blanche it first.

[Momentarynamechange]

Brilliant, thanks eaurouge